Boeheim's record against Top 25

[cuseattle]

how'd this clown get 1 like, let alone 100+???

Damn Tee!

 

[Coach Orange]

I would dispute the notion he gets better talent. His recruiting classes are not that great (until recently) given the program he coaches. He's only had about 5 top five classes.

In fact my opinion on self has more to do with the jobs he did at Oral Roberts, Tulsa, and Illinois than at Kansas.

He's probably Mhy favourite coach outside JB.

Self is an excellent coach, even if some don't want to acknowledge this.

 

[CaptainJ]

Damn Tee!

Personally I find it hard to believe, but I know Jordoo to be a poster of truth. If I could remember it I'm sure Id be even more amused!

Otherwise I would have posted "Shut yo mouth"

 

[A Clockwork Orange]

This forum doesn't like to read about facts. Try the football side.

Here's a fact -- after that article was published by Gottlieb, SU made the Final Four. A Final Four no one thought they would sniff, because they played "tough" defense. I'd like it if Gottlieb continued to write these pieces. And by the way -- that article is asking whether he is a top 10 coach ever. Yep, the fact our coach is even being discussed in those circles refutes essentially everything you and cuse boy are saying.

Is he as good a coach as Izzo, Cal, K, Self, Calhoun, etc...? I would say he's right there with them. That's good company to keep, and frankly if he was #6 on that 6 person list, that would still put him at what...top 8 to 9 coaches in the country?

It's an easy argument to make if you're trying to troll.

Was Bill Clinton (or Ronald Reagan) a great president? Well if you compare him to FDR, Teddy, Abe Lincoln, and George Washington, you've pretty much tried to stack the deck against him right? What about looking at all the presidents and say -- well damn, maybe not the best but pretty darn good.

Your argument is he isn't one of the best while comparing him to the best. The comparison alone destroys the argument.

 

[jordoo]

Personally I find it hard to believe, but I know Jordoo to be a poster of truth. If I could remember it I'm sure Id be even more amused!

Otherwise I would have posted "Shut yo mouth"

I was exaggerating a bit to pull my boy Tee's leg a bit.

 

[CaptainJ]

I was exaggerating a bit to pull my boy Tee's leg a bit.

Dammit, seeing Tee or Mantonio turn dark for a moment would be akin to seeing one of those rare tropical birds that were mentioned before! We'd wonder if the keyboard had been hijacked remotely by one of those people that for an antenna use a can of Pringles driving around looking for signals.

 

[statsgrad]

Here's a fact -- after that article was published by Gottlieb, SU made the Final Four. A Final Four no one thought they would sniff, because they played "tough" defense. I'd like it if Gottlieb continued to write these pieces. And by the way -- that article is asking whether he is a top 10 coach ever. Yep, the fact our coach is even being discussed in those circles refutes essentially everything you and cuse boy are saying.

Is he as good a coach as Izzo, Cal, K, Self, Calhoun, etc...? I would say he's right there with them. That's good company to keep, and frankly if he was #6 on that 6 person list, that would still put him at what...top 8 to 9 coaches in the country?

It's an easy argument to make if you're trying to troll.

Was Bill Clinton (or Ronald Reagan) a great president? Well if you compare him to FDR, Teddy, Abe Lincoln, and George Washington, you've pretty much tried to stack the deck against him right? What about looking at all the presidents and say -- well damn, maybe not the best but pretty darn good.

Your argument is he isn't one of the best while comparing him to the best. The comparison alone destroys the argument.

Wrong, all me and "cuse boy" suggested was maybe he'd be in the top 10 if he'd fix a certain flaw.

 

[statsgrad]

Here's a fact -- after that article was published by Gottlieb, SU made the Final Four. A Final Four no one thought they would sniff, because they played "tough" defense. I'd like it if Gottlieb continued to write these pieces. And by the way -- that article is asking whether he is a top 10 coach ever. Yep, the fact our coach is even being discussed in those circles refutes essentially everything you and cuse boy are saying.

Is he as good a coach as Izzo, Cal, K, Self, Calhoun, etc...? I would say he's right there with them. That's good company to keep, and frankly if he was #6 on that 6 person list, that would still put him at what...top 8 to 9 coaches in the country?

It's an easy argument to make if you're trying to troll.

Was Bill Clinton (or Ronald Reagan) a great president? Well if you compare him to FDR, Teddy, Abe Lincoln, and George Washington, you've pretty much tried to stack the deck against him right? What about looking at all the presidents and say -- well damn, maybe not the best but pretty darn good.

Your argument is he isn't one of the best while comparing him to the best. The comparison alone destroys the argument.

Rather than actually make valid points, you and a bunch of other Pavlovian dogs scramble to make non relevant arguments in a race for more likes.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Boeheim is head coach because his predecessor took the head job at Tulane.

 

[A Clockwork Orange]

Rather than actually make valid points, you and a bunch of other Pavlovian dogs scramble to make non relevant arguments in a race for more likes.

Thank you for devolving to name calling in your...first post to me! It's appreciated. And is there anything in my post that is incorrect? I'd love to have a dialogue on this, but that means you actually have to address the post instead of the poster. For a stats grad, you certainly get your panties in a bunch really quickly, and start attacking. I'd think you'd have a cooler head.

FACT: SU DID go to the Final Four after that article.
FACT: The article was about top ten coaches of all time.
FACT: Being mentioned in that company means you're pretty damn good yourself.
FACT: Being mentioned alongside the five aforementioned coaches means you're pretty damn good.
FACT: The fact that cuse boy didn't compare Boeheim to say Ralph Willard, means he realizes Boeheim is pretty damn good.

You can argue with the way he has done it, or that he has underachieved overall, there are numbers that can back up both sides of that argument. What can't be argued is that Boeheim made and has kept Syracuse basketball a brand name in college hoops for more than three decades. That, beyond anything else proves how successful his career is.

We can quibble with degrees, but why? Aren't we all SU fans? Can't we just enjoy and appreciate an amazing and extended run? Or would you rather piss in your own cornflakes every chance you get? I just don't get how you can loathe a coach (or at least seem to be representing that) while rooting and cheering on the team's success. You do realize that's a really odd stance to have right?

If you're a fan -- you love when Syracuse wins (and they've won at roughly a 75% clip with Boeheim at the helm) but hate the coach that has the most to do with them winning? That's just a really weird point of view for me.

Seems the Pavlovian experiment is really based more on how YOU react to someone who dares to defend a coach who has helped make the team we root for relevant for essentially my entire life. I'm ringing the bell, and I anxiously await your response little pup.

 

[A Clockwork Orange]

Wrong, all me and "cuse boy" suggested was maybe he'd be in the top 10 if he'd fix a certain flaw.

Can you tell me what the flaw is? Sincerely, I must have missed that point you made. I'd like to hear it, because I think it could add to the discussion.

 

[FortyFourCT]

I just read most of the Gottleib article and I can just shake my head. Every year there are 350 coaches, so in the last 25 years there probably have been at least 1000 different college coaches. Is Dougie arguing that JB is not in the top 1%, but only in the top 2%? What kind of ticky-tack argument is that? Is there even any difference worth arguing about there? I think if JB won 10 titles over 30 years, people would criticize him for those other 20 seasons.

 

[A Clockwork Orange]

Did a little research just on Coach B and Coach Calhoun's numbers head to head. Thought they were interesting, and does lend some credence to statsgrad and cuse boy's argument. Although I think it's pretty close over all, especially in the 2000s when SU started its rise back to prominence from some pretty lean years in the '90s. In any case, here's the info:

SU and UConn met 27 times when both teams were ranked in the top 25.

SU's record in those games is 11-16.
SU was 4-5 as a favorite.
SU was 7-11 as the underdog.

As an underdog in the '90s SU was 3-8.
As a favorite in the '90s SU was 3-1.

As an underdog in the '00s SU was 4-3.
As a favorite in the '00s SU was 1-4 (yuck!)

When SU played UConn when UConn was in the top 10 SU has an 8-10 record against them.

 

[sdhusky]

Did a little research just on Coach B and Coach Calhoun's numbers head to head. Thought they were interesting, and does lend some credence to statsgrad and cuse boy's argument. Although I think it's pretty close over all, especially in the 2000s when SU started its rise back to prominence from some pretty lean years in the '90s. In any case, here's the info:

SU and UConn met 27 times when both teams were ranked in the top 25.

SU's record in those games is 11-16.
SU was 4-5 as a favorite.
SU was 7-11 as the underdog.

As an underdog in the '90s SU was 3-8.
As a favorite in the '90s SU was 3-1.

As an underdog in the '00s SU was 4-3.
As a favorite in the '00s SU was 1-4 (yuck!)

When SU played UConn when UConn was in the top 10 SU has an 8-10 record against them.

Although people on this board claim that SU-Georgetown is a big deal because of 3 years of history in the early 80's, UConn-SU... ahhhh nevermind.

 

[rrlbees]

Although people on this board claim that SU-Georgetown is a big deal because of 3 years of history in the early 80's, UConn-SU... ahhhh nevermind.

3 years? You must be a kid and didn't follow basketball until recently.