Class of 2015 building credibility

[timkay99]

exactly, with all due respect to whitey, he uses pressure in a negative connotation. of course, there is some pressure. however, i dont see the coaches leveraging it in an unethical way. eg. telling a recruit if he visits any other school he's done

If a coach extends an offer and doesn't give a timeframe, then calls back 2 months later and says you need to commit or the offer will be taken away, is that ethical?

I don't have any issue with what the coaching staff does, but to think there is anything ethical about college football recruiting or that the Syracuse staff is above it is putting your head in the sand.

I also don't think the "precedent" you are discussing will do anything. Every recruit thinks they are the top dog and schools should be fawning over them.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I think this is a preemptive strike to be ahead of the game when next year or the year after when there is an early signing period.

Interesting thought.

 

[Full_Rebar]

I think this is a preemptive strike to be ahead of the game when next year or the year after when there is an early signing period.

Good observation. If there is an August 1st deadline next year, this staff will be ready for the accelerated schedule.

 

[javadoc]

I think this is a preemptive strike to be ahead of the game when next year or the year after when there is an early signing period.

Nice thought, light bulb going off moment.

 

[ImperialOrange]

Yes, I thought about that to. This kid could have been that kid and committed for over month now.

He Is the reason I thought there were 2 silent verbals but if you read enough on here the other one is pretty well known.

 

[jgeorge322]

i think another thing to consider is this: what if the staff missed out on a few kids last year waiting on decisions and felt the result wasn't worth the wait? thats speculation but i am sure it happens quite frequently in recruiting.

 

[Orijinal]

If a coach extends an offer and doesn't give a timeframe, then calls back 2 months later and says you need to commit or the offer will be taken away, is that ethical?

Whoa. Slow down, Tex. Who said anything about Syracuse doing that? All that is being said is that recruits are being made aware the class is filling up and that a spot may not be available, so you may want to consider making a decision. Not that they are taking away the offer, just that the offer may no longer be committable in the foreseeable future.

 

[weedsportwarriors]

i think another thing to consider is this: what if the staff missed out on a few kids last year waiting on decisions and felt the result wasn't worth the wait? thats speculation but i am sure it happens quite frequently in recruiting.

Next man up!!

 

[timkay99]

Whoa. Slow down, Tex. Who said anything about Syracuse doing that? All that is being said is that recruits are being made aware the class is filling up and that a spot may not be available, so you may want to consider making a decision. Not that they are taking away the offer, just that the offer may no longer be committable in the foreseeable future.

If the offer is no longer commitable, you are really dealing with semantics. You are very much stretching if you don't think Syracuse told kids they need to make a decision in a couple days or we are moving on. Happens all the time in every bit of recruiting.

College recruiting, in general, is dirty.

 

[jgeorge322]

If the offer is no longer commitable, you are really dealing with semantics. You are very much stretching if you don't think Syracuse told kids they need to make a decision in a couple days or we are moving on. Happens all the time in every bit of recruiting.

College recruiting, in general, is dirty.

why is that dirty? that makes no sense. if you were applying for multiple jobs and you got an offer and the employer asked you to make a decision within a week time, would that be dirty? how would the employer take it if you were considering other options for months.

 

[timkay99]

why is that dirty? that makes no sense. if you were applying for multiple jobs and you got an offer and the employer asked you to make a decision within a week time, would that be dirty? how would the employer take it if you were considering other options for months.

Apples and oranges.

When you are originally given the offer of employment, you are given a set date to decide by. We have zero idea if that occurred with some of these offers. But, we do know some players wanted to commit and were told there was no room at the inn (which would seem to insinuate they didn't know they were B level recruits or under a deadline).

Your example would be applicable if the employer submitted an offer to you about employment, you thought about it for a few days and came back and said you accept. They regret to inform you that they have since hired someone else for the position (which also does happen in the real world sadly).

Again, this isn't a bad thing and happens all over recruiting in every sport. I am just trying to point out that recruiting is not ethical. It won't be under this staff and it won't be under the next one. And recruiting is not set-up to be ethical given secondary options, flips, etc.

And I want to be perfectly clear, I am only referring to the recruiting process. I believe kids are taken care of at Syracuse and Shafer does actually work to build character amongst the team and puts wins and losses second (Funderburke would be my example of this).

 

[DownTheField]

Apples and oranges.

When you are originally given the offer of employment, you are given a set date to decide by. We have zero idea if that occurred with some of these offers. But, we do know some players wanted to commit and were told there was no room at the inn (which would seem to insinuate they didn't know they were B level recruits or under a deadline).

Your example would be applicable if the employer submitted an offer to you about employment, you thought about it for a few days and came back and said you accept. They regret to inform you that they have since hired someone else for the position (which also does happen in the real world sadly).

Again, this isn't a bad thing and happens all over recruiting in every sport. I am just trying to point out that recruiting is not ethical. It won't be under this staff and it won't be under the next one. And recruiting is not set-up to be ethical given secondary options, flips, etc.

And I want to be perfectly clear, I am only referring to the recruiting process. I believe kids are taken care of at Syracuse and Shafer does actually work to build character amongst the team and puts wins and losses second (Funderburke would be my example of this).

How many offers do you think the staff has made to kids in this class? I bet it's more than 25. What if every kid wanted to accept and go to SU? We can't take a class of 150 kids.

 

[timkay99]

How many offers do you think the staff has made to kids in this class? I bet it's more than 25. What if every kid wanted to accept and go to SU? We can't take a class of 150 kids.

I don't disagree. But I was also never the person who said we were recruiting ethically. Because no one recruits ethically. Otherwise, you are doomed to be a 1-11 team.

 

[jgeorge322]

Apples and oranges.

When you are originally given the offer of employment, you are given a set date to decide by. We have zero idea if that occurred with some of these offers. But, we do know some players wanted to commit and were told there was no room at the inn (which would seem to insinuate they didn't know they were B level recruits or under a deadline).

Your example would be applicable if the employer submitted an offer to you about employment, you thought about it for a few days and came back and said you accept. They regret to inform you that they have since hired someone else for the position (which also does happen in the real world sadly).

Again, this isn't a bad thing and happens all over recruiting in every sport. I am just trying to point out that recruiting is not ethical. It won't be under this staff and it won't be under the next one. And recruiting is not set-up to be ethical given secondary options, flips, etc.

And I want to be perfectly clear, I am only referring to the recruiting process. I believe kids are taken care of at Syracuse and Shafer does actually work to build character amongst the team and puts wins and losses second (Funderburke would be my example of this).

Im in the process of being convinced that youre completely out of your mind.

 

[wfschrec]

Apples and oranges.

When you are originally given the offer of employment, you are given a set date to decide by. We have zero idea if that occurred with some of these offers. But, we do know some players wanted to commit and were told there was no room at the inn (which would seem to insinuate they didn't know they were B level recruits or under a deadline).

Your example would be applicable if the employer submitted an offer to you about employment, you thought about it for a few days and came back and said you accept. They regret to inform you that they have since hired someone else for the position (which also does happen in the real world sadly).

Again, this isn't a bad thing and happens all over recruiting in every sport. I am just trying to point out that recruiting is not ethical. It won't be under this staff and it won't be under the next one. And recruiting is not set-up to be ethical given secondary options, flips, etc.

And I want to be perfectly clear, I am only referring to the recruiting process. I believe kids are taken care of at Syracuse and Shafer does actually work to build character amongst the team and puts wins and losses second (Funderburke would be my example of this).

Using applying for a job as a comparison doesn't even come close ... these kids can't sign an LOI until Feb ... a coaching staff should not be forced to work on a kid for months holding off others if they don't feel like it. A kid has an offer and its been quoted by a parent on this board that Shafer has said take a week and think about it if you wan to wait we reserve the right to move on. How the hell is that dirty? They invest a ton of resources to recruit these kids the last thing they want is a recruiting circus. If they feel the player is worth it they will wait ... if they find someone comparable who really wants to be at SU then get him. You can sign a job offer at any time ... these coaches are stuck risking a kid keeping his word and signing a document 6-7 months from now ... comparing it to applying for a job is not at all fair.

 

[jmcclure33]

I know that this isn't a direct comparison since it wasn't for Syracuse or football but I was in the recruiting process for baseball a couple years ago and it's the same all around pretty much. Every coach that sends out an offer tells you to think it over but does give you a deadline on when you can decide so they know if or how they can move forward. I completely understand the process and actually agree with it because it isn't fair to them if you take your sweet time deciding when they're trying to figure out what they're going to do. I wouldn't say that this is unethical and it definitely isn't dirty by any means, it's just how it has to be.

 

[TheCusian]

The intent of the coach and the relationship with the recruit determines if it's ethical or not. Holding a spot for a kid whom you're high on is standard practice, telling them that it's getting to that spot where they need a decision is standard practice - all of which has inherent pressure. If you're trusting of the coach and he's being honest throughout - than you understand that it's your choice to pass on the opportunity. The flip is if you don't trust them and you feel they are using a fake deadline to force you to move? Probably not leaving a good taste in your mouth.

I'm thinking Shafer and co. tell it like it is, after building good relationships.

 

[timkay99]

a coaching staff should not be forced to work on a kid for months holding off others if they don't feel like it. A kid has an offer and its been quoted by a parent on this board that Shafer has said take a week and think about it if you wan to wait we reserve the right to move on. How the hell is that dirty? They invest a ton of resources to recruit these kids the last thing they want is a recruiting circus. If they feel the player is worth it they will wait ... if they find someone comparable who really wants to be at SU then get him. You can sign a job offer at any time ... these coaches are stuck risking a kid keeping his word and signing a document 6-7 months from now ... comparing it to applying for a job is not at all fair.

The only reason I brought up the work example is b/c one was quoted to me.

All recruiting is dirty. You talk about taking a week or we move on, but there are instances where recruits have been told the inn is full when they wanted to commit.

Which is why recruiting (in and of itself) is not designed to be ethical. A kid going back on his word is also unethical. Same thing with flips. Yet, it happens all the time on both ends.

Look, I am not saying Syracuse is dirty recruiting or unethical more then the average (SEC is more unethical for example with oversigning) D-1 team. I am saying everyone is due to the rules and conditions set forth by the NCAA.

 

[Oakland]

One has to recognize that there is a strong emotional need on this board to deem Rutgers beneath SU. I think your point reflects this.

However, SU, with lower starred recruits, does seem to have outperformed RU in many ways over the last 7 years.

I think its funny that we bag on Rutgers and UConn when they get verbals from guys with no major offers but when we do it's ok because our coaching staff got to see them first or are better at identifying diamonds in the rough.

Cant have it both ways and if you're going to be critical of other teams doing it you should take a closer look at whats happening in our own backyard.