Did Howard punch one of Jimmy's kids?

[PhatOrange]

I don't think anybody is asking for Jim B to coddle the players.

my post is a culmination of years of people complaining about JB being to hard on the kids.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

my post is a culmination of years of people complaining about JB being to hard on the kids.

So you're reacting to people being too hard on JB? Interesting.

 

[MSOrange]

So if another coach does it, that justifies JB's behavior. Makes perfect sense.

Uh not what I said. I said I wasn't a huge fan of him getting as upset as he did last night at a kid. I just thought it was interesting that another coach explosion was going viral the same night. I know I wouldn't respond very well to this. I'm the kind of guy who knows when I screwed up and am hard enough on myself without someone else exploding at me.

 

[Brooky03]

My whole thing has always been that the coach should speak to the player specifically. When a coach gets that demonstrative, he's no longer just speaking to that player, he's speaking to everybody watching. I agree that players at this level need to have the confidence and mental toughness to get through it and learn from it, but I've seen treatment like that wear on even the most mentally tough players. On the flip side, I've seen it boost players too.

Yanking the player from the game and benching him is enough to send a message to the team. Getting in the player's ear and scolding him is enough to send him the message. Use all the colorful language you want to get the point across, but don't bring everybody else into the player's shaming.


I also might be projecting a little bit here because I didn't respond well to coaches who would make a big show out of player mistakes, so I empathize with Howard looking like he wanted to deck Jim.

 

[br801]

My whole thing has always been that the coach should speak to the player specifically. When a coach gets that demonstrative, he's no longer just speaking to that player, he's speaking to everybody watching. I agree that players at this level need to have the confidence and mental toughness to get through it and learn from it, but I've seen treatment like that wear on even the most mentally tough players. On the flip side, I've seen it boost players too.

Yanking the player from the game and benching him is enough to send a message to the team. Getting in the player's ear and scolding him is enough to send him the message. Use all the colorful language you want to get the point across, but don't bring everybody else into the player's shaming.


I also might be projecting a little bit here because I didn't respond well to coaches who would make a big show out of player mistakes, so I empathize with Howard looking like he wanted to deck Jim.

Coaches fall all over the spectrum in regard to how they interact with their players during games. I remember sitting behind the bench at a D3 women's game a few years ago and hearing the coach (a woman) dress down her players with language that would make JB and K blush.

At any rate, these kids should have some idea of what they are walking into. If they aren't comfortable with the style going in, perhaps they should be looking at other options.

 

[Brooky03]

Coaches fall all over the spectrum in regard to how they interact with their players during games. I remember sitting behind the bench at a D3 women's game a few years ago and hearing the coach (a woman) dress down her players with language that would make JB and K blush.

At any rate, these kids should have some idea of what they are walking into. If they aren't comfortable with the style going in, perhaps they should be looking at other options.

At least he's not like that former Rutgers coach

 

[FrancoPizza]

Whether JB was justified or not, at the end of the day, this team will have a higher ceiling if Howard can be integrated. Playing 4 minutes here, garbage time there, is hardly preparing him to help the team this year, let alone next year. Either commit to the process or don't.

We've seen plenty of embarrassing JB tirades on the bench over the years... this blowup was as weird and strange as any. As the OP speculated, there might be more to the story. You don't just have an aneurysm like that over a missed rebound. Maybe he's looking to run both KJ and FH out the door to bring in 2 graduate loaners.

 

[FrancoPizza]

If they aren't comfortable with the style going in, perhaps they should be looking at other options.

How is a high school kid supposed to gauge this? I doubt JB provides a free "sample" of his behavior on in-home visit.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Whether JB was justified or not, at the end of the day, this team will have a higher ceiling if Howard can be integrated. Playing 4 minutes here, garbage time there, is hardly preparing him to help the team this year, let alone next year. Either commit to the process or don't.

We've seen plenty of embarrassing JB tirades on the bench over the years... this blowup was as weird and strange as any. As the OP speculated, there might be more to the story. You don't just have an aneurysm like that over a missed rebound. Maybe he's looking to run both KJ and FH out the door to bring in 2 graduate loaners.

God I hope not, I mean about Howard.

Like with a marriage, you don't get worried when there is a fight with true anger and passion (like he showed with Franklin), you get worried when there is no more fight, just complacency and lack of interest (like we see with Kaleb).

 

[CousCuse]

This team is very talented and capable , but is very vulnerable if it only has a 6 man rotation . I'm sure that JB is aware of that and he wants Howard to get up to speed ASAP. In the past where refs called ticky tack games it has spelled the end of runs or losses during games. He did offer some consolation during the press conference as he mentioned FH in a positive light , so he still believes in him . If FH gets to where JB wants him , no one will want to see Syracuse in their bracket , time will tell.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Coaches fall all over the spectrum in regard to how they interact with their players during games. I remember sitting behind the bench at a D3 women's game a few years ago and hearing the coach (a woman) dress down her players with language that would make JB and K blush.

At any rate, these kids should have some idea of what they are walking into. If they aren't comfortable with the style going in, perhaps they should be looking at other options.

Yeah, the head coach at the local Catholic HS, who brings his team to play in tourneys in Syracuse, also speaks in this manner. Kind of ironic considering the principal, who is also a priest, sits right behind the bench.

 

[br801]

How is a high school kid supposed to gauge this? I doubt JB provides a free "sample" of his behavior on in-home visit.

How? Eyes, ears and asking questions of the right people.

 

[81South]

Look, I think we can all agree that we would rather NOT see JB go off on any of his players. Screaming at a kid does not help the kid in the short term. There is simply no shred of research to support that screaming at someone is a good thing. It's also bad for Jimmy's blood pressure and we don't need our coach stroking out on the sideline.

I think its plausible to assume that Jimmy has told Frank more times than he can remember what he does/doesn't want him to do when he plays. So last night the kid goes out and disobeys the coaches orders and the old man blows up.

Maybe this analogy will work. When your kids break a family rule the first time you probably talk nice to them about it and say it better not happen again. The next time they break the same rule you amplify your voice, give a dirty look and probably drop an expletive. At some point when the rule gets broken again you lose it and go full ape . Now ape is different for everyone, but coach grew up in the old days where ape probably meant a major tongue lashing and probably even a flogging. Hell, it may have even ended up with a code red from teammates.

If Frank is not doing what coach wants then Cooney or G need to step up and have a talk with the lad. You cannot disobey an order from the head coach. It's that simple.

My personal advice to Frank, keep your mouth shut, hear what coach is saying and not how he says it. Then go home and find some women's beach volleyball to watch on youtube. It puts you in a good mood.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Look, I think we can all agree that we would rather NOT see JB go off on any of his players. Screaming at a kid does not help the kid in the short term. There is simply no shred of research to support that screaming at someone is a good thing. It's also bad for Jimmy's blood pressure and we don't need our coach stroking out on the sideline.

I think its plausible to assume that Jimmy has told Frank more times than he can remember what he does/doesn't want him to do when he plays. So last night the kid goes out and disobeys the coaches orders and the old man blows up.

Maybe this analogy will work. When your kids break a family rule the first time you probably talk nice to them about it and say it better not happen again. The next time they break the same rule you amplify your voice, give a dirty look and probably drop an expletive. At some point when the rule gets broken again you lose it and go full ape . . . . . Now ape . . . . is different for everyone, but coach grew up in the old days where ape . . . . probably meant a major tongue lashing and probably even a flogging. Hell, it may have even ended up with a code red from teammates.

If Frank is not doing what coach wants then Cooney or G need to step up and have a talk with the lad. You cannot disobey an order from the head coach. It's that simple.

My personal advice to Frank, keep your mouth shut, hear what coach is saying and not how he says it. Then go home and find some women's beach volleyball to watch on youtube. It puts you in a good mood.

Another great avatar.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Look, I think we can all agree that we would rather NOT see JB go off on any of his players. Screaming at a kid does not help the kid in the short term. There is simply no shred of research to support that screaming at someone is a good thing. It's also bad for Jimmy's blood pressure and we don't need our coach stroking out on the sideline.

I think its plausible to assume that Jimmy has told Frank more times than he can remember what he does/doesn't want him to do when he plays. So last night the kid goes out and disobeys the coaches orders and the old man blows up.

Maybe this analogy will work. When your kids break a family rule the first time you probably talk nice to them about it and say it better not happen again. The next time they break the same rule you amplify your voice, give a dirty look and probably drop an expletive. At some point when the rule gets broken again you lose it and go full ape . . . . . Now ape . . . . is different for everyone, but coach grew up in the old days where ape . . . . probably meant a major tongue lashing and probably even a flogging. Hell, it may have even ended up with a code red from teammates.

If Frank is not doing what coach wants then Cooney or G need to step up and have a talk with the lad. You cannot disobey an order from the head coach. It's that simple.

My personal advice to Frank, keep your mouth shut, hear what coach is saying and not how he says it. Then go home and find some women's beach volleyball to watch on youtube. It puts you in a good mood.

All sounds like a reasonable explanation, but it doesn't address the double-standard when designated stars make similar mistakes and get a free pass.

 

[rrlbees]

All sounds like a reasonable explanation, but it doesn't address the double-standard when designated stars make similar mistakes and get a free pass.

Because the better players also do more good things so a mistake might be overlooked.

 

[patcuse]

All sounds like a reasonable explanation, but it doesn't address the double-standard when designated stars make similar mistakes and get a free pass.

It's not a double standard, designated stars are asked to do everything during their extended minutes. Mistakes are going to happen. Coming off the bench you have a limited role and responsibilities and can't make those mistakes.

 

[rrlbees]

I "think", but am not 100% sure, JB was already irritated with Frank before he went in. It appeared JB told Frank to go in the game (I assume for Mali) and it seemed to take Frank too long to get to the scorers table and thus wasn't able to go in and had to wait for the next clock stoppage. JB appeared irritated and told Frank to come back to the bench and have a seat.

As to the 3, yea he was open. But prior to that shot the previous few possessions looked great as Frank was moving the ball inside out and was finding some nice passing seams. I think JB wanted more of that and not a 3 from a freshman that has really struggled from 3. Stay with what was working.

 

[realorange]

I think JB knows that Frank has more potential than he has shown. JB has also said in the past that you treat players differently to get the most out of them. Those things plus perhaps one or more of the reasons already given may have blown JB's top.

 

[tbonezone]

i saw a couple air balls last night.and nobody else got an earful. howard played 5 whole minutes. sometimes you let young talent play thru their mistakes.
we play games tomorrow and tuesday. he can cry about the schedule but it's been posted for months.Let's see how jb's 39 minute plus strategy plays out.

 

[Cuseball]

No problem at all with the way Jimmy handed it. Howard has a role. if he wants to earn more minutes it starts with distributing the ball, playing defense and doing the dirty work. If he can get into the lane for layup once in awhile good. we have plenty of better three point options available and Howard doe snot need to be taking that shot (unless under 10 on the shot clock). people are being really soft here. This is Jimmy's style and most successful coaches styles. It works and works really well. Very few big time coaches are coddlers and high fivers.

You let Lydon play through his mistakes because he plays a position of need. Howard does not. All he needs to do is provide 5-10 minutes max. he doesn't need to score in that time. There are better options. Proven and established players are allowed to make mistakes because they have shown what they are capable of.

Howard may not have liked it but he will learn from it. if he doesn't he won't play. Kids need to have a very tough mindset to be big time college players.

Cuse!

 

[upperdeck]

i saw a couple air balls last night.and nobody else got an earful. howard played 5 whole minutes. sometimes you let young talent play thru their mistakes.
we play games tomorrow and tuesday. he can cry about the schedule but it's been posted for months.Let's see how jb's 39 minute plus strategy plays out.

an airball is not a mistake if the coach wants you to take the shot. Howard is struggling shooting. he needs to just finish in the paint and working on the shooting in garbage time. he cant be that bad a shooter can he? some kids take a long time to relax under pressure.

 

[Cuse Action]

Uh not what I said. I said I wasn't a huge fan of him getting as upset as he did last night at a kid. I just thought it was interesting that another coach explosion was going viral the same night. I know I wouldn't respond very well to this. I'm the kind of guy who knows when I screwed up and am hard enough on myself without someone else exploding at me.

I don't question him getting on a kid, but why do it in such a public way on national tv?

 

[Townie72]

No problem at all with the way Jimmy handed it. Howard has a role. if he wants to earn more minutes it starts with distributing the ball, playing defense and doing the dirty work. If he can get into the lane for layup once in awhile good. we have plenty of better three point options available and Howard doe snot need to be taking that shot (unless under 10 on the shot clock). people are being really soft here. This is Jimmy's style and most successful coaches styles. It works and works really well. Very few big time coaches are coddlers and high fivers.

You let Lydon play through his mistakes because he plays a position of need. Howard does not. All he needs to do is provide 5-10 minutes max. he doesn't need to score in that time. There are better options. Proven and established players are allowed to make mistakes because they have shown what they are capable of.

Howard may not have liked it but he will learn from it. if he doesn't he won't play. Kids need to have a very tough mindset to be big time college players.

Cuse!

Some of the guys on here complaining about JB's approach to Howard don't like anything about JB. They viscerally don't like the guy and will use any excuse or reason to attack him for his treatment of the Press, his use of a single defense, whatever.

 

[patcuse]

i saw a couple air balls last night.and nobody else got an earful. howard played 5 whole minutes. sometimes you let young talent play thru their mistakes.
we play games tomorrow and tuesday. he can cry about the schedule but it's been posted for months.Let's see how jb's 39 minute plus strategy plays out.

How many 39 min games does a player have to play to prove they can play 39 min????