Etan article

[Waltdods]

The article has nothing to do with the question of whether celebrities should voice their opinion.

"Nothing to do" is a little strong, but I think it's probably true that Etan's article was not mostly about the prescriptive question of whether celebrities should voice their opinion. To the extent it had a thesis (and truthfully, although I'm generally sympathetic to Thomas politically, his writing always strikes me as less than excellent) it was about the descriptive question of whether athletes have already spoken out. I'm not sure this is a particularly interesting question, but it is the one he addressed. What the article definitely was not about was a plea for victimhood, as you described it.

The thread addressed this along with whether Etan's argument is 'intelligent, courageous and honorable'. It is none of those things.

I think you're right that most people in the thread did not actually read Etan's article and instead addressed a different question, which is "what do I think about liberals' position on Ferguson"? (Not really casting blame here; it's a difficult slog of an article.)

He was praised for stepping into the fray. I beg to differ. First, Etan's assertions are premature.

Well, okay. I agree in an ideal world it would be great if everyone could wait to take positions (such as accusing 18-year-olds of murder, say) before all the facts were known. Literally no one does so. I'm not sure why we should hold Thomas to a standard no one else tries to meet. As with any controversy of this type, the actual facts of the precipitating event are kind of irrelevant anyway.

Second, the gentle giant is a questionable character.

I don't know if this is true any more than you do. The 18-year old unarmed kid shot by a policeman might be a "questionable character" or not. I would think someone as concerned with government overreach as you elsewhere claim to be would agree that the cops do not have a mandate to shoot "characters," however questionable.

Look, it might be that Michael Brown is all of the terrible things you accuse him of. If he's not - if it turns out you've falsely accused a dead kid of murder - will that cause you to rethink things?

As to whether celebs should comment, it depends on their logic, same as anyone else voicing an opinion. People get upset with celebs spouting off, as do I, but not always. For eg. Joan Rivers spoke with knowledge. I hope we have not heard the last of her.

Is there an actual position here other than celebrities should speak when they agree with me and shut up when they don't? (Also, Joan Rivers?)

There is a difference between courage and playing the victim. I have a female friend that is 30 years old, brought up in the wilderness but no one dances a waltz with more grace. She is a commercial fisherman and has earned her BA. She has already survived one sinking at sea. She was working on a State ferry during the winter and almost lost her when hit by a widow maker winch. The captain did not want to report it. He did not want a Coast Guard investigation. She was not medivacked and almost bled to death from internal bleeding. Went into intensive care when she finally got to the hospital when the ship came to port. Will never have full use of her right and will never be able to fish again. While she was injured the State ferry terminated her. She is making plans to go maritime college in CA and work her way through school for another 4 years. I never heard her utter a word about being a victim. That sir, is courage. Etan is just rabal rousing.

That is a sad story and I wish the best for your friend.

I think the point you're trying to make is that people should take care of their own sh#t and not look to the government to do it for them (unless the point is just "stop whining", but I think you're more sophisticated than that). I don't agree with that position. But I would also point out that this is what is at the heart of much of the outcry over Ferguson - that the government is constantly getting in people's sh#t and interfering with their lives in a way they don't with mine or, I'd wager to guess, yours. You have your position on the racial politics argument; I think you're wrong, but obviously that is a gap we aren't going to bridge. But there are a lot of good reasons someone with your purported skepticism of state power should be sympathetic to a lot of the arguments Etan and others are making. Radley Balko at Reason is very good on this stuff, for example.

 

[im4cuse]

fouled out in the FIRST HALF against Gtown in, I think, '97. Pretty impressive, no?

11 and 6 for his career, mostly on strength of senior year, which he parlayed into a nice contract. Good for him.

He's never been close to the program like other former players: if he attended the FF in '03 or '13 it's news to me. Hasn't attended games with other past players. Is one of two former players (out of maybe 40) not to sign the beautiful art piece done last year, even though he is depicted . I don't think he cares much about SU, at least not like other players. That's his right of course. It's also my right not to think he was that good.

341 total fouls
6 disqualifications

For comparison:
DC had 426/17
Watkins 302/18
Forth 360/16


Lottery pick (12th overall)
Big East Defensive Player of the Year (twice)
Big East 3rd team (Soph)
Big East 2nd team(Jr.)
Big East 1st team (Sr.)
Led SU in scoring and rebounding (Sr.)
All time leader in blocked shots/career/season/game
We won BE his senior season.


Is it your disagreement with his views that makes them childish? Nothing even remotely childish in that article or any other I've read by ET. (For the record, I don't agree with a lot of what he writes.)


Yes, he does speak in complete sentences. He also speaks and writes thoughtfully and intelligently on some tough and complicated issues. That doesn't make him a genius, but it does make him a good source for a quote or opinion.

 

[ottodaorange]

The article has nothing to do with the question of whether celebrities should voice their opinion. The thread addressed this along with whether Etan's argument is 'intelligent, courageous and honorable'. It is none of those things.

He was praised for stepping into the fray. I beg to differ. First, Etan's assertions are premature. Second, the gentle giant is a questionable character. As to whether celebs should comment, it depends on their logic, same as anyone else voicing an opinion. People get upset with celebs spouting off, as do I, but not always. For eg. Joan Rivers spoke with knowledge. I hope we have not heard the last of her.

There is a difference between courage and playing the victim. I have a female friend that is 30 years old, brought up in the wilderness but no one dances a waltz with more grace. She is a commercial fisherman and has earned her BA. She has already survived one sinking at sea. She was working on a State ferry during the winter and almost lost her when hit by a widow maker winch. The captain did not want to report it. He did not want a Coast Guard investigation. She was not medivacked and almost bled to death from internal bleeding. Went into intensive care when she finally got to the hospital when the ship came to port. Will never have full use of her right and will never be able to fish again. While she was injured the State ferry terminated her. She is making plans to go maritime college in CA and work her way through school for another 4 years. I never heard her utter a word about being a victim. That sir, is courage. Etan is just rabal rousing.

To set the record straight, what I said was, "we should be proud that a member of our family has the courage to speak out and that a Syracuse education breeds men of intelligence and honor, as well as NBA talent." This is quite different than what you misquoted. Notwithstanding, I am proud, since I did my graduate work on the Hill. I assume you did not and are most probably a neighbor of Sarah Palin and can see Russia from your porch... and emulate Fox News by misquoting and distorting to make a point that is irrelevant, as most of what you have had to say illustrates. Oh, did I also mention not very knowledgeable about basketball, as others have already illustrated... and then there is the issue of not having a clue of what racism consists of in the United States. I know. I lived through it! Did you?

 

[Waltdods]

He's never been close to the program like other former players: if he attended the FF in '03 or '13 it's news to me. Hasn't attended games with other past players. Is one of two former players (out of maybe 40) not to sign the beautiful art piece done last year, even though he is depicted . I don't think he cares much about SU, at least not like other players. That's his right of course. It's also my right not to think he was that good.

Yes, it's been almost eighteen months since the last time Etan was the guess speaker at a major SU basketball event and spoke forcefully in defense of the school in the wake of the Bernie Fine scandal: http://www.syracuse.com/orangebasketball/index.ssf/2013/03/orange_basketball_highlights_f.html

What has he done for us lately, though?!?! Clearly a guy who does not care much about SU.

 

[AlaskaSU]

"Nothing to do" is a little strong, but I think it's probably true that Etan's article was not mostly about the prescriptive question of whether celebrities should voice their opinion. To the extent it had a thesis (and truthfully, although I'm generally sympathetic to Thomas politically, his writing always strikes me as less than excellent) it was about the descriptive question of whether athletes have already spoken out. I'm not sure this is a particularly interesting question, but it is the one he addressed. What the article definitely was not about was a plea for victimhood, as you described it.



I think you're right that most people in the thread did not actually read Etan's article and instead addressed a different question, which is "what do I think about liberals' position on Ferguson"? (Not really casting blame here; it's a difficult slog of an article.)



Well, okay. I agree in an ideal world it would be great if everyone could wait to take positions (such as accusing 18-year-olds of murder, say) before all the facts were known. Literally no one does so. I'm not sure why we should hold Thomas to a standard no one else tries to meet. As with any controversy of this type, the actual facts of the precipitating event are kind of irrelevant anyway.



I don't know if this is true any more than you do. The 18-year old unarmed kid shot by a policeman might be a "questionable character" or not. I would think someone as concerned with government overreach as you elsewhere claim to be would agree that the cops do not have a mandate to shoot "characters," however questionable.

Look, it might be that Michael Brown is all of the terrible things you accuse him of. If he's not - if it turns out you've falsely accused a dead kid of murder - will that cause you to rethink things?



Is there an actual position here other than celebrities should speak when they agree with me and shut up when they don't? (Also, Joan Rivers?)



That is a sad story and I wish the best for your friend.

I think the point you're trying to make is that people should take care of their own sh#t and not look to the government to do it for them (unless the point is just "stop whining", but I think you're more sophisticated than that). I don't agree with that position. But I would also point out that this is what is at the heart of much of the outcry over Ferguson - that the government is constantly getting in people's sh#t and interfering with their lives in a way they don't with mine or, I'd wager to guess, yours. You have your position on the racial politics argument; I think you're wrong, but obviously that is a gap we aren't going to bridge. But there are a lot of good reasons someone with your purported skepticism of state power should be sympathetic to a lot of the arguments Etan and others are making. Radley Balko at Reason is very good on this stuff, for example.

The rule of law is basic to civilized society. The police are protecting the community from the anti-social behavior of gang bangers like Brown. Blacks suffer the most when there is tolerance for lawlessness. Government interference is abhorrent but this has nothing to do with government interference, unless it turns out that the policeman was the agressor. In which case this would be a rogue incident, not a government sanctioned intrusion.

 

[AlaskaSU]

To set the record straight, what I said was, "we should be proud that a member of our family has the courage to speak out and that a Syracuse education breeds men of intelligence and honor, as well as NBA talent." This is quite different than what you misquoted. Notwithstanding, I am proud, since I did my graduate work on the Hill. I assume you did not and are most probably a neighbor of Sarah Palin and can see Russia from your porch... and emulate Fox News by misquoting and distorting to make a point that is irrelevant, as most of what you have had to say illustrates. Oh, did I also mention not very knowledgeable about basketball, as others have already illustrated... and then there is the issue of not having a clue of what racism consists of in the United States. I know. I lived through it! Did you?

Dear ranting lib,
I graduated from Maxwell. I am a NYS Regents Scholar.
I was a participant in the civil rights movement in the deep south. I witnessed true racial violence, ie death. I was there. I volunteered.
It does not take courage to cry racial violence. What did Etan risk? He is going with the crowd and from what I can tell the crowd is at best premature and at worst sadly mistaken.
Sarah Palin never said anything about seeing Russia. She does not even live on the coast. She lives on the shores of a lake. Her husband is a pilot. They have their own plane. She was brought up in SE Alaska. Her dad was a biology teacher. You are insulting Alaska if you think that a Governor is a moron.
I cannot make heads or tails out of your statement about Fox News, irrelevance etc. Perhaps you are referring to Mr. Brown's background. Seems that the liberal position is that his background is irrelevant.

 

[ottodaorange]

Dear ranting lib,
I graduated from Maxwell. I am a NYS Regents Scholar.
I was a participant in the civil rights movement in the deep south. I witnessed true racial violence, ie death. I was there. I volunteered.
It does not take courage to cry racial violence. What did Etan risk? He is going with the crowd and from what I can tell the crowd is at best premature and at worst sadly mistaken.
Sarah Palin never said anything about seeing Russia. She does not even live on the coast. She lives on the shores of a lake. Her husband is a pilot. They have their own plane. She was brought up in SE Alaska. Her dad was a biology teacher. You are insulting Alaska if you think that a Governor is a moron.
I cannot make heads or tails out of your statement about Fox News, irrelevance etc. Perhaps you are referring to Mr. Brown's background. Seems that the liberal position is that his background is irrelevant.

At least we are brothers in one thing, we both participated in the civil rights movement. Unfortunately, I don't think you learned much about what it is like to be black in our country or to have to have the "talk" with your parents about being stopped by police. If you have followed the evidence, you should know this was an execution from the autopsies. Even in NYC the stop and frisk policy is racist profiling and unconstitutional, yet it persists and the fact that 2-3 unarmed blacks are murdered by white cops per week is undeniable. One needs to ask the question, who are being protected and served?

I am sorry you did not address your misquoting me in your response. Also, in September of 2008, ABC’s Charlie Gibson posed this question to Sarah Palin: “What insight into Russian actions, particularly during the last couple of weeks, does the proximity of this state give you?” She responded, “They’re our next-door neighbors. And you can actually see Russia, from land, here in Alaska..." This is equally inane.

Lastly, Sarah Palin is from all appearances a moron who resigned as your Governor in mid-term to avoid an indictment and make more money as a commentator for Fox. I know Todd is a pilot and they are both aficianadoes of shooting wolves from their airplane. I have hunted deer and other game, but this is not sport. And I believe she grew up in Michigan, not Alaska. It's hard to take anyone seriously that pays so little attention to the facts.

 

[slidingdown]

I was a participant in the civil rights movement in the deep south. I witnessed true racial violence, ie death.

Dear AlaskaSU,
Thank you for your participation in the civil rights movement in the deep south (I assume you were on the side of African Americans, but 'participant' is kind of vague). Now, as an expert on race relations, could you please explain what about the current situation does not qualify as "true racial violence" ? Or true death? Are you suggesting that the violence is not racially motivated? Or that no one has died? Cause that would be awesome. I would love for the coroner to be the idiot bad guy in all of this.

Love,
Sliding Down

 

[Fireball Jr.]

The rule of law is basic to civilized society. The police are protecting the community from the anti-social behavior of gang bangers like Brown. Blacks suffer the most when there is tolerance for lawlessness. Government interference is abhorrent but this has nothing to do with government interference, unless it turns out that the policeman was the agressor. In which case this would be a rogue incident, not a government sanctioned intrusion.

Gang banger? And your source for this?

 

[Flacusian]

Kudos to Etan Thomas for speaking out and weighing in on the issues at stake. Whether one agrees with Etan or not he is to be respected for speaking out and exercising the precious right of free speech which many have laid down their lives for so we as Americans can do so.

When incidents such as this occur it seems to serve as a galvanizing event which brings out the passions of many Americans and illustrates how much further we need to go with respect to justice, equality, and tempering the tendency to immediately condemn and choose sides prior to all the facts being sorted out.

Many of the posts here illustrate the "condemnation prior to investigation" way of thinking. Nothing is contributed in a positive fashion to the discourse when people resort to ad hominem attacks toward Etan Thomas. Patience and tolerance are two things in scarce supply in contemporary America. There are always 2 sides to every story and seldom is either side without some responsibility when an event like Ferguson takes place.

What is disparaging is the phenomenon of how quickly people choose sides prior to having the facts and then they speak out in inflammatory fashion which only contributes to further polarization of us as Americans who share a common interest and heritage.

Etan demonstrates that he was certainly prescient of the inevitable ridicule and debasing criticism which his speaking out would elicit when he wrote:

"Now for the brave Twitter trolls who hide behind their keyboards, that's another story. Unfortunately, the same people who are quick to criticize athletes for not using their various positions as platforms to speak out on various current issues will be the same ones to bombard them with vicious attacks when they do. Some fans simply do not respect the opinions of athletes and view them as simple entertainment. Some want them to simply be seen and not heard -- to simply shut up and play. However, not everyone is affected by those "brave" social media trolls who lurk in the corners of blog comment sections and Twitter."

Although I don't agree with some viewpoints which are espoused by others who come here and contribute, I respect their right to think differently than I do and I know that by criticizing them on a personal level I do nothing to substantiate why my viewpoint is different than theirs. This forum, this topic, this Country and this World would be a better place if people put as much effort in to building bridges between differing view points rather than erecting and reenforcing walls between them.

 

[Fireball Jr.]

Kudos to Etan Thomas for speaking out and weighing in on the issues at stake. Whether one agrees with Etan or not he is to be respected for speaking out and exercising the precious right of free speech which many have laid down their lives for so we as Americans can do so.

When incidents such as this occur it seems to serve as a galvanizing event which brings out the passions of many Americans and illustrates how much further we need to go with respect to justice, equality, and tempering the tendency to immediately condemn and choose sides prior to all the facts being sorted out.

Many of the posts here illustrate the "condemnation prior to investigation" way of thinking. Nothing is contributed in a positive fashion to the discourse when people resort to ad hominem attacks toward Etan Thomas. Patience and tolerance are two things in scarce supply in contemporary America. There are always 2 sides to every story and seldom is either side without some responsibility when an event like Ferguson takes place.

What is disparaging is the phenomenon of how quickly people choose sides prior to having the facts and then they speak out in inflammatory fashion which only contributes to further polarization of us as Americans who share a common interest and heritage.

Etan demonstrates that he was certainly prescient of the inevitable ridicule and debasing criticism which his speaking out would elicit when he wrote:

Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner! Excellent post!
"Now for the brave Twitter trolls who hide behind their keyboards, that's another story. Unfortunately, the same people who are quick to criticize athletes for not using their various positions as platforms to speak out on various current issues will be the same ones to bombard them with vicious attacks when they do. Some fans simply do not respect the opinions of athletes and view them as simple entertainment. Some want them to simply be seen and not heard -- to simply shut up and play. However, not everyone is affected by those "brave" social media trolls who lurk in the corners of blog comment sections and Twitter."

Although I don't agree with some viewpoints which are espoused by others who come here and contribute, I respect their right to think differently than I do and I know that by criticizing them on a personal level I do nothing to substantiate why my viewpoint is different than theirs. This forum, this topic, this Country and this World would be a better place if people put as much effort in to building bridges between differing view points rather than erecting and reenforcing walls between them.

Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner! Excellent post.

 

[Orange Barrel]

fouled out in the FIRST HALF against Gtown in, I think, '97. Pretty impressive, no?

You want to judge his career on one game he played as a frosh? Ok.

11 and 6 for his career, mostly on strength of senior year, which he parlayed into a nice contract. Good for him.

Not sure why you'd round 6.9 rpg down to 6 instead of up to 7, unless it's to bolster an already weak argument. Also not sure why you'd try to shrug those off as bad numbers, unless it's for the same reason. Very good numbers for a guy whose game was in the paint playing D. He destroyed opponents down there. Too bad you missed that.

He's never been close to the program like other former players: if he attended the FF in '03 or '13 it's news to me. Hasn't attended games with other past players. Is one of two former players (out of maybe 40) not to sign the beautiful art piece done last year, even though he is depicted . I don't think he cares much about SU, at least not like other players. That's his right of course. It's also my right not to think he was that good.

As Walt has already pointed out, this is not true. You don't like him. That's fine. But calling him a bad player and making other stuff up is BS and it's my right to tell the truth.

 

[AlaskaSU]

At least we are brothers in one thing, we both participated in the civil rights movement. Unfortunately, I don't think you learned much about what it is like to be black in our country or to have to have the "talk" with your parents about being stopped by police. If you have followed the evidence, you should know this was an execution from the autopsies. Even in NYC the stop and frisk policy is racist profiling and unconstitutional, yet it persists and the fact that 2-3 unarmed blacks are murdered by white cops per week is undeniable. One needs to ask the question, who are being protected and served?

I am sorry you did not address your misquoting me in your response. Also, in September of 2008, ABC’s Charlie Gibson posed this question to Sarah Palin: “What insight into Russian actions, particularly during the last couple of weeks, does the proximity of this state give you?” She responded, “They’re our next-door neighbors. And you can actually see Russia, from land, here in Alaska..." This is equally inane.

Lastly, Sarah Palin is from all appearances a moron who resigned as your Governor in mid-term to avoid an indictment and make more money as a commentator for Fox. I know Todd is a pilot and they are both aficianadoes of shooting wolves from their airplane. I have hunted deer and other game, but this is not sport. And I believe she grew up in Michigan, not Alaska. It's hard to take anyone seriously that pays so little attention to the facts.

Sarah Palin grew up in Skagway. She never said that she could see Russia from her house. It is of course true that you can see Russia from some places in Alaska. Calling her a moron reflects on you and is an insult to the milllions of people that support her. I surmise that conservative and moron are one and the same in your vocab. She was not about to be found guilty of any misconduct. In Alaska, the State does not pay the legal fees of the Governor. These were nuisance law suits filed in great qquantity by liberal nut cases. For example, making claims based on clothing she wore. She spent her own money on legal fees. She left the office to her Lieutenant Gov and he is still in office.

Aerial wolf hunting only takes place when moose or caribou herds are endangered. Alaskan's depend on these herd animals for food. It is generally illegal to aerial wolf hunt.

How do you know it was execution? It is legal for a policeman to shoot someone that assaults him. Anything is possible, but I would take the word of a police officer over that of a gang banger.

You wallow in victimization. I prefer individual responsibility.

 

[AlaskaSU]

I

Dear AlaskaSU,
Thank you for your participation in the civil rights movement in the deep south (I assume you were on the side of African Americans, but 'participant' is kind of vague). Now, as an expert on race relations, could you please explain what about the current situation does not qualify as "true racial violence" ? Or true death? Are you suggesting that the violence is not racially motivated? Or that no one has died? Cause that would be awesome. I would love for the coroner to be the idiot bad guy in all of this.

Love,
Sliding Down

I volunteered for VISTA and requested the South. I was a community organizer.
True racial violence? One party was black and one was white. That does not mean that there were racial motives.

 

[AlaskaSU]

Gang banger? And your source for this?

There is a lawsuit to have his juvenile records released. The parties allege that he was a gang member and had been picked up for second degree murder.

 

[ottodaorange]

Sarah Palin grew up in Skagway. She never said that she could see Russia from her house. It is of course true that you can see Russia from some places in Alaska. Calling her a moron reflects on you and is an insult to the milllions of people that support her. I surmise that conservative and moron are one and the same in your vocab. She was not about to be found guilty of any misconduct. In Alaska, the State does not pay the legal fees of the Governor. These were nuisance law suits filed in great qquantity by liberal nut cases. For example, making claims based on clothing she wore. She spent her own money on legal fees. She left the office to her Lieutenant Gov and he is still in office.

Aerial wolf hunting only takes place when moose or caribou herds are endangered. Alaskan's depend on these herd animals for food. It is generally illegal to aerial wolf hunt.

How do you know it was execution? It is legal for a policeman to shoot someone that assaults him. Anything is possible, but I would take the word of a police officer over that of a gang banger.

You wallow in victimization. I prefer individual responsibility.

One last effort... why I don't know... since you are a lost cause that will never "get it."

She (Palin) was about to get indicted for abuse of power when she ordered the State Police to harass people she did not like. That makes her a felon as well as a moron. If you are so enamored with the rule of law, perhaps you can explain why she acted as a cheerleader for racism at one of her VP rallies and approved of a person calling for Obama to be shot... never once admonishing such a statement from the crowd. I am no fan of Obama and think Cornel West said it best recently, we were expecting John Coltrane and we got Kenny G, but I do not approve of assassination of Presidential candidates by bigots and racists nor do I approve of assassination of black men by white men in uniform. Your rule of law apparently does not apply to police who shoot an unarmed teenager "at least" 6 times, once through the palm of his hand, which forensics concluded he had his hands raised indicating surrender, and twice in the top of his head from a standing position. This is the very definition of an execution. So your interpretation of "the rule of law" is to appoint racist cops as judge, jury, and executioner... unless of course they are white!

You are very selective of what you chose to see and careful to censor any information that contradicts your biased point of view. It is impossible to carry on a conversation with someone that distorts the truth in this way. Responsibility is something that you have no understanding of. If you were really interested in entitlements, since you have tried to distract from the original conversation on this thread in every conceivable way, you would look at corporate entitlements that actually come much closer to the definition of your "big government" thesis.

And finally, you call the victim a "gang banger" with no proof. Even if he was, this apparently gives justification for execution... in your mind. This makes you a racist and a bigot and even requires that your claim to have been part of the civil rights movement be questioned. You are hateful, the antithesis of civil rights. If this is your definition of responsibility, it would not surprise me. Most racists do not understand the meaning of racism, and you certainly meet this definition. The more you write, the more you expose yourself for what you really are.

 

[Waltdods]

The rule of law is basic to civilized society. The police are protecting the community from the anti-social behavior of gang bangers like Brown. Blacks suffer the most when there is tolerance for lawlessness. Government interference is abhorrent but this has nothing to do with government interference, unless it turns out that the policeman was the agressor. In which case this would be a rogue incident, not a government sanctioned intrusion.

As you yourself point out below it is not at all clear that Brown was actually a "gang banger."

I'm sure he was in some sense anti-social; I remember being 18 and as I recall we all were in some sense anti-social. Many even used cigars to roll blunts! Do you really think the police should be shooting people for being anti-social? If Brown was in some sense the aggressor - if he, say, pushed the cop or yelled at him - do you think that should excuse the police for shooting him? That strikes me as a much more intrusive government than one that buys food for poor people. Your mileage may (and apparently does) vary.

 

[slidingdown]

I

I volunteered for VISTA and requested the South. I was a community organizer.
True racial violence? One party was black and one was white. That does not mean that there were racial motives.

Thank you for your service. That cannot have been easy. I'm sure you have some fantastic stories to tell, and I for one would very much love to hear them. Perhaps another thread, though.

An unarmed man was killed by a police officer, with what looks to an unbiased eye with excessive and unnecessary force (multiple bullets).
The police force in question is statistically much, much whiter than the population it polices (population: two-thirds African American, one-third Caucasian; police force: 50 Caucasian officers, 3 African-American). The only crime stat with racial divides I could find through google was for traffic stops: 86% of stops and 92% of searches were performed on cars driven by African Americans, despite the fact that cars driven by Caucasians are more likely (when searched) to actually have contraband (stats cribbed from The Atlantic).

I bring this up only to say you seem pretty sure this was not racially motivated. What I see is a police force with a statistical history of targeting minorities (at least in terms of traffic stops), and now some unnecessary violence. Can you tell us what it is about this situation that makes you so convinced that racial motives are absent?

 

[djcon57]

Really enjoying a bunch of people posting under assumed names... making boastful claims as if they are 100% fact... anonymously ....on an internet message board. And questioning if Etan should be able to post something they disagree with. It's so rich.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Etan plays the victimiztion card which is a rationalization for entitlements and therefore big government. Big government handouts are the opiate of the masses. How is it brave to not only go with the pandering crowd but also to incite it by making accusations contrary to a basic tenet of civilization, 'innocent until proven guilty'? I'm not impressed. I'm embarrassed.

Police in this country are out of control. There are now roughly 80,000 SWAT attacks against private citizens' homes every year. That averages out to more than 4 per day in every single state.

Only about 1/3 of the time do these SWAT attacks turn up drugs or weapons, which is the basis of almost all of these middle-of-the-night attacks into our homes.

In his article, Etan says that a black man is shot dead by a white police twice a week in this country. Personally, I would have thought it was more than that.

Between 2003 and 2009, the DOJ reported that 4,813 people died while in the process of arrest or in the custody of law enforcement.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Could be considered political?

I dont even have to read it - he is WAY OUT THERE in a lot of his thoughts and almost everything he says is political. im going to to guess an article that Etan publishes in the huffington post is going to be insanely political - just a guess.

He is as anti -Israel as it comes (edit * this may be an overstatement and i apologize - but based on some of his recent tweets, this was my thought process) and he has a running fatherhood panel that in part describes itself as "diverse fathers" that includes exactly 0 fathers that arent black.

Im glad he is passionate about what he does - but he has a great opportunity to do a lot of good in the community and IMHO fails miserably. Instead of creating peace and/or inclusion, he tries to sway peoples opinion to the opposite and just as crazy side of the aisle.

I'm glad that you jump to such strong opinions without even reading the article being discussed. That's a great way to go through life.

 

[IthacaMatt]

thoughtful and intelligent?

He assumes that the policeman is guilty and the gentle giant is a victim of both police brutality and inbred American racism. The gentle giant is on film committing a strong armed robbery (the cigars are used to roll joints), and he violently assaulted a policeman. A lawsuit is in progress to release his juvenile record (since he is deceased the record should be made public). He is a member of the Bloods and he had been booked for murder (2nd degree) but not prosecuted. Is it smart and intelligent to use a violent sociopath to make your case?

That's not his point at all. Obviously another person for whom the article was too long to actually read.

Police kill too many people in this country, nearly 5,000 in the past few years, mostly in SWAT raids.

The police in this country are dangerous to everyone, but especially to black people. Police are to be avoided like the plague, or their xxxx will rain down on you. Forget about any thought that you have Constitutional rights. They no longer exist in this country as we see daily in conduct like stop-and-frisk, automobile stops, police brutality in the arrest process, etc.

I am the parent of an autistic girl and I have had the police arrive at my house a couple times when my daughter was having a meltdown and neighbors called the cops, fearing a domestic disturbance. They are trained to act like attack dogs and my family was in danger both times that they showed up.

They came into my apartment without my consent, they had no awareness of how people with disabilities like autism can act (see "Rain Man"), and if it wasn't for a timely call to my daughter's psychiatrist, someone likely would have been hurt (by the cops) and arrested.

Cops in this country suck today. They are trained like soldiers, not like public safety officers. They are dangerous to everyone. And most of them are not particularly bright.

 

[IthacaMatt]

thoughtful and intelligent?

He assumes that the policeman is guilty and the gentle giant is a victim of both police brutality and inbred American racism. The gentle giant is on film committing a strong armed robbery (the cigars are used to roll joints), and he violently assaulted a policeman. A lawsuit is in progress to release his juvenile record (since he is deceased the record should be made public). He is a member of the Bloods and he had been booked for murder (2nd degree) but not prosecuted. Is it smart and intelligent to use a violent sociopath to make your case?

Let's say all of what has been said about Michael Brown is true - he was a big young punk.

Does that justify him being shot in the head twice by a cop? Remember, he was unarmed. He did not attack the officer, he mouthed off to him. This justifies shooting the guy six times, and then leaving him to die in the street?

 

[IthacaMatt]

The rule of law is basic to civilized society. The police are protecting the community from the anti-social behavior of gang bangers like Brown. Blacks suffer the most when there is tolerance for lawlessness. Government interference is abhorrent but this has nothing to do with government interference, unless it turns out that the policeman was the agressor. In which case this would be a rogue incident, not a government sanctioned intrusion.

Killing suspects is not good police practice. What if you are a suspect in a crime? Crime happens in Alaska all the time. You want to be shot first, with no questions?

You think this has nothing to do with official government policy? Are you blissfully unaware of how armed up the local police are all over this country, or have they not received their tank, kevlar vests and riot gear up there in the Yukon yet? How do you explain 80,000 invasions of people's homes in the middle of the night by police every year in this country if it's not "official policy"?

 

[IthacaMatt]

Sarah Palin grew up in Skagway. She never said that she could see Russia from her house. It is of course true that you can see Russia from some places in Alaska.

Remember, that was her answer to why she was qualified for Vice President, and what she knew about Russia. Here's the actual clip:

http://blogs.chicagotribune.com/new...eally-say-you-can-see-russia-from-alaska.html