Francis new podcast

[Francis03]

so which classes (years) were Brunsen and Morris in?

13 and 15.

 

[billsin01]

Francis -- excellent pod -- a couple quick questions.

Started a thread recently regarding recruiting/evaluation. As you point out here the struggles involve a variety of factors -- JB's involvement, player development, general player evaluation, etc.

But it seems to me like the philosophy for a while has been to find rangy athletic players and try to mold them into good basketball players. Oversimplification, I know, but watching Taurean Thompson's game as a frosh -- pathetic defense aside -- is pretty impressive. So even though he can't spring off the floor or display superior lateral quickness, he's looked really good.

My question is this: Do you think there could be a subtle change in evaluation style -- worrying a bit less about lenght and perhaps upside and focusing a bit more on present skill and polish? I feel like we did this a bit in the mid-90s with mixed results (really solid regular seasons but brutal losses to more talented teams like Kansas and MSU in the postseason). Just wondering if it helps us avoid the types of departures we've had where we've had good players leave before delivering that season or two of elite production (Mali, Grant, Fab -- other factors obviously -- even MCW to an extent, McCullough, all left without putting up a truly dominant season).

Thoughts? Impossible? Possible but not practical?

 

[20Plus]

13 and 15.

Did Tyus play point guard in high school???

 

[Alsacs]

That podcast and RF's post really tells me this has to be it for JB.
Our roster has been horribly managed and the weight of that falls on the top.

 

[Toga]

That podcast and RF's post really tells me this has to be it for JB.
Our roster has been horribly managed and the weight of that falls on the top.

I've always thought (any special circumstances aside) JB would retire the year before he indicated so as to avoid the retirement tour.

 

[pearl31]

13 and 15.

OK, so for '13 we had Ennis locked up already - how do we know his camp didn't put forth some sort of demand with his commitment about being the only PG for the class, or something like that - how do we know JB/Staff's hands weren't tied in terms of offering another PG? Who here can state with knowledge what actually happened with that?

For '15 we had Joseph and Cooney both returning with the plan of the light bulb finally coming on for Kaleb to be the starting PG, plus the prospect of G being an integral part of the backcourt (to become reality as the full-time PG after Joseph floundered). That's a full backcourt, with 3 key players returning for all the minutes (again, that being the plan in spring '15). How do we know the Brunson camp didn't request some kind of PT assurance from JB/Staff? How do we know their hands weren't tied in terms of offering a guaranteed role to Bruson? Who here can state with knowledge what actually happened with that?

Also, was Scoop a long/rangy athlete brought in only for his fit at the top of the zone? Was Kaleb? Was A.Gilbert? Was Q.Green? But the staff has only recruited long/rangy athletes as guards the past 5 years, right?

 

[Alsacs]

OK, so for '13 we had Ennis locked up already - how do we know his camp didn't put forth some sort of demand with his commitment about being the only PG for the class, or something like that - how do we know JB/Staff's hands weren't tied in terms of offering another PG? Who here can state with knowledge what actually happened with that?

For '15 we had Joseph and Cooney both returning with the plan of the light bulb finally coming on for Kaleb to be the starting PG, plus the prospect of G being an integral part of the backcourt (to become reality as the full-time PG after Joseph floundered). That's a full backcourt, with 3 key players returning for all the minutes (again, that being the plan in spring '15). How do we know the Brunson camp didn't request some kind of PT assurance from JB/Staff? How do we know their hands weren't tied in terms of offering a guaranteed role to Bruson? Who here can state with knowledge what actually happened with that?

Also, was Scoop a long/rangy athlete brought in only for his fit at the top of the zone? Was Kaleb? Was A.Gilbert? Was Q.Green? But the staff has only recruited long/rangy athletes as guards the past 5 years, right?

In 2014 we didn't have a 3rd guard on the roster.
Redshirt Sophomore Michael Gbinije was the 3rd guard we needed depth if nothing else.
The fact we didn't take another guard was a poor decision just for future depth. If RF is right and I believe him the Brunson kid wanted to come here and we just passed. Our roster in 2014 only had 11 scholarship players we should have taken away 4-5 star kid.

On Newton again we had open spots and we only took Kaleb. Newton is exactly the player we should have gone after as we never had a guard to sub for Cooney. That is on coaches. Newton freaking wanted come. These are decision aren't being second guessed everyone has been up in arms over th fact we haven't a full roster of the 13 scholarships in forever. Never mind 12.

 

[pearl31]

In 2014 we didn't have a 3rd guard on the roster.
Redshirt Sophomore Michael Gbinije was the 3rd guard we needed depth if nothing else.
The fact we didn't take another guard was a poor decision just for future depth. If RF is right and I believe him the Brunson kid wanted to come here and we just passed. Our roster in 2014 only had 11 scholarship players we should have taken away 4-5 star kid.

On Newton again we had open spots and we only took Kaleb. Newton is exactly the player we should have gone after as we never had a guard to sub for Cooney. That is on coaches. Newton freaking wanted come. These are decision aren't being second guessed everyone has been up in arms over th fact we haven't a full roster of the 13 scholarships in forever. Never mind 12.

You didn't answer or even acknowledge the questions posed in my post.

 

[iommi]

Did Tyus play point guard in high school???

I am not Francis, but I will say that I saw Battle play point guard in person for stretches of games. He wasn't really THE point guard but he took the ball up the court on occasion. Then again, I also saw Tyus jump center to start games.

JB said on Brent Axe's show that he wouldn't try Tyus at point guard because he never played it before (Guess that's what you're referring to). JB is right and wrong. He wasn't THE point guard but he did take up that role periodically.

 

[iommi]

I've always thought (any special circumstances aside) JB would retire the year before he indicated so as to avoid the retirement tour.

IF JB winds up announcing at the end of this year that he is retiring immediately, that might really hurt us with '17 signees. They might be able to get out of their commitments with a coaching change.

 

[two3zone]

IF JB winds up announcing at the end of this year that he is retiring immediately, that might really hurt us with '17 signees. They might be able to get out of their commitments with a coaching change.

Well, the two we have signed right now are behind a few people already.

 

[Ward]

OK, so for '13 we had Ennis locked up already - how do we know his camp didn't put forth some sort of demand with his commitment about being the only PG for the class, or something like that - how do we know JB/Staff's hands weren't tied in terms of offering another PG? Who here can state with knowledge what actually happened with that?

For '15 we had Joseph and Cooney both returning with the plan of the light bulb finally coming on for Kaleb to be the starting PG, plus the prospect of G being an integral part of the backcourt (to become reality as the full-time PG after Joseph floundered). That's a full backcourt, with 3 key players returning for all the minutes (again, that being the plan in spring '15). How do we know the Brunson camp didn't request some kind of PT assurance from JB/Staff? How do we know their hands weren't tied in terms of offering a guaranteed role to Bruson? Who here can state with knowledge what actually happened with that?

Also, was Scoop a long/rangy athlete brought in only for his fit at the top of the zone? Was Kaleb? Was A.Gilbert? Was Q.Green? But the staff has only recruited long/rangy athletes as guards the past 5 years, right?

In '13 we brought in Buss because we knew we needed another guard and the thought was he was a combo who could potentially play some point. I can't say for a fact but I don't think Ennis camp would've told the staff they would only commit if they promised he would be the only point guard in the entire program. Ennis was very highly regarded and I don't think wouldve left if someone ranked below him like Morris committed.

Brunson committed to Villanova who has a ton of guards and a senior starter returning in Arch last year so I don't think he and his dad were only going somewhere he was promised all kinds of starting roles and what not. And in your scenario if the staff saw how Kaleb performed as a freshman and then decided they felt they could pass on a big time ranked kid like Brunson I'm not sure that paints them in a good light either. We ended up taking a point guard in '15 anyways with Howard so the theory they thought they were all set on guards/point guards is debunked.

Again, I can't say for a fact any of that happened but just looking at how things unfolded and facts we do know it doesn't seem likely.

 

[two3zone]

Calipari vs McNamara hahahaha, nice Francis

 

[pearl31]

In '13 we brought in Buss because we knew we needed another guard and the thought was he was a combo who could potentially play some point. I can't say for a fact but I don't think Ennis camp would've told the staff they would only commit if they promised he would be the only point guard in the entire program. Ennis was very highly regarded and I don't think wouldve left if someone ranked below him like Morris committed.

Brunson committed to Villanova who has a ton of guards and a senior starter returning in Arch last year so I don't think he and his dad were only going somewhere he was promised all kinds of starting roles and what not. And in your scenario if the staff saw how Kaleb performed as a freshman and then decided they felt they could pass on a big time ranked kid like Brunson I'm not sure that paints them in a good light either. We ended up taking a point guard in '15 anyways with Howard so the theory they thought they were all set on guards/point guards is debunked.

Again, I can't say for a fact any of that happened but just looking at how things unfolded and facts we do know it doesn't seem likely.

I'm not saying anything happened, other than the specific players in question (Morris/Brunson) didn't end up at Syracuse.

The premise that has emerged is that JB/staff essentially tanked this thing either on purpose or out of sheer incompetence. I find that premise, in either of its scenarios (and especially coming from supposed Syracuse fans), to completely misguided and unfortunate.

 

[iommi]

Calipari vs McNamara hahahaha, nice Francis

Tyson was way past his prime then and still, that was a joke.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Good stuff, Francis 'Al Gore' Dean—
re: the Podcast, aka "An Inconvenient Truth."

 

[DoctorBombay]

I'm not saying anything happened, other than the specific players in question (Morris/Brunson) didn't end up at Syracuse.

The premise that has emerged is that JB/staff essentially tanked this thing either on purpose or out of sheer incompetence. I find that premise, in either of its scenarios ( and especially coming from supposed Syracuse fans), to completely misguided and unfortunate.

Methinks this is what Francis was referring to in his podcast when he stated that some Cuse fans are "too sensitive" whenever criticism is directed towards JB. Your gratuitous shot at a valid difference of opinion is uncalled for, IMO.
Indeed, Francis addressed many things that I'd wondered about re; the team. Im sure no one is suggesting the recruiting "misses" were done "on purpose". However, the questions about "sheer incompetence" by the staff, especially when it comes to long-range planning and player development, are very legitimate. JMHO

 

[20Plus]

Methinks this is what Francis was referring to in his podcast, when he stated that some Cuse fans are "too sensitive" whenever criticism is directed towards JB. Your gratuitous shot at a valid difference of opinion is uncalled for, IMO.
Indeed, Francis addressed many things that I'd wondered about re; the team. Im sure no one is suggesting the recruiting "misses" were done "on purpose". However, the questions about "sheer incompetence" by the staff, especially when it comes to long-range planning and player development, are very legit. JMHO

Very legitimate



Furthermore these pods are more entertaining and thought-provoking than the games

 

[pearl31]

Methinks this is what Francis was referring to in his podcast, when he stated that some Cuse fans are "too sensitive" whenever criticism is directed towards JB. Your gratuitous shot at a valid difference of opinion is uncalled for, IMO.
Indeed, Francis addressed many things that I'd wondered about re; the team. I would wager that no one here is suggesting the "misses" were done "on purpose", but the question of "sheer incompetence" by the staff, especially when it comes to long-range planning and player development, are legit. JMHO

Nothing I have posted in this thread is a shot at Francis. He and I are good - his contributions around here have been invaluable.
The point is, no one on here (to my knowledge) has any direct information on what has happened with each specific recruit and each decision whether to offer or not offer. Instead, you have a whole lot of deduction and speculation. And of late, virtually none of that speculation ever gives JB/staff even a hint of the benefit of the doubt. I just find it (and again this is not directed at Francis) sad/sickening/ridiculous that so much of the fan base has opted for that track.
Look, I'm not "sensitive" or unable to see reality. Recruiting for '17 has clearly been a mess and we're clearly in desperation mode now. In the past couple years the sanctions have hurt, some questionable strategies were implemented, and a few players either didn't pan out or just didn't make it to campus. But to just lay all that on JB's unwillingness or inability to recruit anymore is way off base, IMO. And for the growing contingent on here and elsewhere to seemingly revel in it, to ridicule the man who's made this program, is completely indefensible - I refuse to leave that BS unaddressed.

 

[DoctorBombay]

Nothing I have posted in this thread is a shot at Francis. He and I are good - his contributions around here have been invaluable.
The point is, no one on here (to my knowledge) has any direct information on what has happened with each specific recruit and each decision whether to offer or not offer. Instead, you have a whole lot of deduction and speculation. And of late, virtually none of that speculation ever gives JB/staff even a hint of the benefit of the doubt. I just find it (and again this is not directed at Francis) sad/sickening/ridiculous that so much of the fan base has opted for that track.
Look, I'm not "sensitive" or unable to see reality. Recruiting for '17 has clearly been a mess and we're clearly in desperation mode now. In the past couple years the sanctions have hurt, some questionable strategies were implemented, and a few players either didn't pan out or just didn't make it to campus. But to just lay all that on JB's unwillingness or inability to recruit anymore is way off base, IMO. And for the growing contingent on here and elsewhere to seemingly revel in it, to ridicule the man who's made this program, is completely indefensible - I refuse to leave that BS unaddressed.

My comment was directed at your use of "supposed Syracuse fans", when referring to those of us stating an opinion. Why "supposed"?
I can criticize certain aspects of the program, while still remaining a die-hard, life-long fan and alum. Nothing "supposed" about it!

 

[RF2044]

In 2014 we didn't have a 3rd guard on the roster.
Redshirt Sophomore Michael Gbinije was the 3rd guard we needed depth if nothing else.
The fact we didn't take another guard was a poor decision just for future depth. If RF is right and I believe him the Brunson kid wanted to come here and we just passed. Our roster in 2014 only had 11 scholarship players we should have taken away 4-5 star kid.

On Newton again we had open spots and we only took Kaleb. Newton is exactly the player we should have gone after as we never had a guard to sub for Cooney. That is on coaches. Newton freaking wanted come. These are decision aren't being second guessed everyone has been up in arms over th fact we haven't a full roster of the 13 scholarships in forever. Never mind 12.

Just to be clear, I have no idea if the kid wanted to come here or not. I know that the FATHER was interested in having him come here, but got the impression of tepid interest from the staff, so they moved on.

 

[pearl31]

My comment was directed at your use of "supposed Syracuse fans", when referring to those of us stating an opinion. Why "supposed"?
I can criticize certain aspects of the program, while still remaining a die-hard, life-long fan and alum. Nothing "supposed" about it!

definitely not you - there is a select few on here that, over the past year or so, have been relentless in their ridiculing of JB. I've been critical as hell over the years at some of his decisions/reactions/patterns of stubbornness - but there is no basis whatsoever for the sh__ that select group has been slinging and reveling in of late

 

[RF2044]

OK, so for '13 we had Ennis locked up already - how do we know his camp didn't put forth some sort of demand with his commitment about being the only PG for the class, or something like that - how do we know JB/Staff's hands weren't tied in terms of offering another PG? Who here can state with knowledge what actually happened with that?

For '15 we had Joseph and Cooney both returning with the plan of the light bulb finally coming on for Kaleb to be the starting PG, plus the prospect of G being an integral part of the backcourt (to become reality as the full-time PG after Joseph floundered). That's a full backcourt, with 3 key players returning for all the minutes (again, that being the plan in spring '15). How do we know the Brunson camp didn't request some kind of PT assurance from JB/Staff? How do we know their hands weren't tied in terms of offering a guaranteed role to Bruson? Who here can state with knowledge what actually happened with that?

Also, was Scoop a long/rangy athlete brought in only for his fit at the top of the zone? Was Kaleb? Was A.Gilbert? Was Q.Green? But the staff has only recruited long/rangy athletes as guards the past 5 years, right?

We brought Scoop in WITH Johnny Flynn.

There's nothing wrong with bringing in multiple players at key positions--especially if the secondary prospect is cool with that. Teams do it all the time. Newton could have been a nearly identical situation, backing up point while also giving us some flexibility at 2, until he took over the starting point guard role later on [as Scoop did].

I don't know about any demands that the Brunsons might have made--maybe, but I'd guess with the bountiful backcourt depth at Villanova, that probably wasn't a stumbling block. And while I'm certain that you are right about the staff expecting Kaleb to kick it up a notch his sophomore year [which didn't happen], but why not take in a top ~20 caliber player who was practically being gift wrapped to the staff? Haven't we seen how quickly PGs have turned over here? Since Scoop left, we've had a new starting point guard every season since 2012. I mean--what?

12 Scoop
13 MCW
14 Joseph
15 Gbinije
16 Gillon / Howard

We were also incredibly short handed in the backcourt last season, after Mali opted to leave. Having Brunson in the fold would have helped that, and wouldn't have necessitated bringing in a fifth year transfer to stop gap the role.

 

[RF2044]

definitely not you - there is a select few on here that, over the past year or so, have been relentless in their ridiculing of JB. I've been critical as hell over the years at some of his decisions/reactions/patterns of stubbornness - but there is no basis whatsoever for the sh__ that select group has been slinging and reveling in of late

Pearl, I don't know who you're directing that at--hopefully not me, because I am staunchly pro-JB. But there is DEFINITELY a basis in fact for some of the criticism about recruiting and how it has played out in terms of depth / roster management. Is this even in question?

 

[Alsacs]

Pearl, I don't know who you're directing that at--hopefully not me, because I am staunchly pro-JB. But there is DEFINITELY a basis in fact for some of the criticism about recruiting and how it has played out in terms of depth / roster management. Is this even in question?

You are describing me to a tee. JB is SU hoops but the guy has made mistakes with the roster and that is the problem right now.
The Final Four last year masks we have been Seton Hall the last 3 years.