Frank Howard...ahhhh, I got nothing.

[Jake]

I just love the bad behavior criticisms...did anyone complain when DC brought attitude to a game? Or when Pearl went after Ewing? But when Frank stands his ground, all of a sudden it's bad behavior not befitting a leader. The kid can't win for losing. SMH.

I think that's an absurd generalization.

Coleman took a ton of heat from local fans for hitting the Cornell kid. It was CORNELL!

Pearl hitting Ewing is equivalent to Frank shoving that ncstate player in your mind? Not comparable in any way. Those games were freaking wars.

Mouthing off, jumping on tables, preening, glaring etc...doesn't equate to placing a hand on another player.

 

[SUFan44]

Why does he have to be DC, the Pearl or all ACC to stand up for himself?

How is shoving a guy twice standing up for yourself? First one was uncalled for, and the second one after he got up in his face was begging for a technical. Could have easily been just a T on Howard.

 

[SUFan44]

May be All-ACC next year.

I will bet you 10,000 Shrute bucks that won't happen.

 

[Trueblue25]

I will bet you 10,000 Shrute bucks that won't happen.

I would enjoy a stay at shrute farms

 

[Trueblue25]

Why does he have to be DC, the Pearl or all ACC to stand up for himself?

I never said anything about either of those players. I supported him standing up for himself. Im just also acknowledging his stats and play may earn him prestigious accolades that may come as a shock to our frustrated posters

 

[rrlbees]

I don’t know man. Someone is going to score and make plays on a bad team...see Geno last year. I gotta say his shot looks really sweet. The deep ones with the nice form and such especially. He made two open threes with those corner handoffs off the inbounds when NCSU just inexplicably left him alone. And he made a couple of drives/floaters against that Beverly kid who looks like and is as athletic as a walk-on. Once Keatts finally put the other kid on him or anybody else at times I knew it was over. Many plays Frank just didn’t want the ball in his hands and just gave it up to our forwards lol or Tyus. Some plays he was doubled for sure but, like I mentioned, once Keatts put that Johnson kid on Frank I knew we were done. The drives were over and the pushoffs/turnovers started.

Not really, IMO. Frank wanted no part of him once Keatts took that Beverly kid off of him. Changed the whole game. Drew two pushoffs and stripped him another time. That might have been Batts, though. Not to mention the last three he burned Frank on. He also got him on a shot fake-made a mid-range jumper on him. He played 10 fewer minutes as well. That kid changed the whole game. Not to mention the blow buys as well setting up other threes in the 2H.

Frank scored on those corner shots where nobody guarded him and the points he accumulated with Beverly on him.

Yea, I'm not buying what you're selling. I'm not sure there's a much correct in there. I'll put the number of points scored by Frank vs Beverly at 3, +/- 1. Both those inbounds corner 3's were with Johnson on him but he was a split second slow in reacting and Frank got them off with Johnson flying at him. Neither of those drives/floaters that he made were against Beverly. One was over Johnson and the other was # 2 or 3 I think. Don't remember who was on him on the one that rolled in and out. There was nothing over when Keatts changed who was guarding who. He rotated guys on Frank and Tyus pretty regularly. So I don't know what you mean by Frank wanted no part of Johnson. That's fake news. And I don't have any idea what you mean by Frank didn't want the ball. Huh? If you think us running a motion the last 8-9 minutes until Tyus was freed up to receive a pass, that's because JB always believes in having the ball in the hands of his best player, especially late. And when Brissett got hot for those few minutes, I don't see why the PG wouldn't try to get him the ball.

I think you're embellishing a lot here.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Yea, I'm not buying what you're selling. I'm not sure there's a much correct in there. I'll put the number of points scored by Frank vs Beverly at 3, +/- 1. Both those inbounds corner 3's were with Johnson on him but he was a split second slow in reacting and Frank got them off with Johnson flying at him. Neither of those drives/floaters that he made were against Beverly. One was over Johnson and the other was # 2 or 3 I think. Don't remember who was on him on the one that rolled in and out. There was nothing over when Keatts changed who was guarding who. He rotated guys on Frank and Tyus pretty regularly. So I don't know what you mean by Frank wanted no part of Johnson. That's fake news. And I don't have any idea what you mean by Frank didn't want the ball. Huh? If you think us running a motion the last 8-9 minutes until Tyus was freed up to receive a pass, that's because JB always believes in having the ball in the hands of his best player, especially late. And when Brissett got hot for those few minutes, I don't see why the PG wouldn't try to get him the ball.

I think you're embellishing a lot here.

Just as much as I think you’re embellishing. Of course Tyus needs the ball but Frank was clearly uncomfortable. Those corner shots were just letting Frank get a pass at a free shot IMO. Simply laziness as Bonner said. Only one of those was on an actual screen that was actually set.

Johnson owned Frank whenever that matchup was a true one-on-one. Not sure how that is debatable. I’m not even going to get into the technical issue again.

 

[two3zone]

I will bet you 10,000 Shrute bucks that won't happen.

I'll give you 5 million Stanley nickels if you never talk to me again.

The ratio to Shrute bucks to my nickels? Lepercons to unicorns.

 

[rrlbees]

Just as much as I think you’re embellishing. Of course Tyus needs the ball but Frank was clearly uncomfortable. Those corner shots were just letting Frank get a pass at a free shot IMO. Simply laziness as Bonner said. Only one of those was on an actual screen that was actually set.

Johnson owned Frank whenever that matchup was a true one-on-one. Not sure how that is debatable. I’m not even going to get into the technical issue again.

you might want to watch the game again, or at least select parts. everything I said is factual. yours embellishment or outright wrong. and frank was uncomfortable? um no, not close.

 

[SoBeCuse]

you might want to watch the game again, or at least select parts. everything I said is factual. yours embellishment or outright wrong. and frank was uncomfortable? um no, not close.

It’s a two way street. Johnson on Frank was the definition of uncomfortable for Frank. Just like Alvarado. Watch the replay. Just because you said it doesn’t mean it is factual. The tape will show proof.

 

[rrlbees]

It’s a two way street. Johnson on Frank was the definition of uncomfortable for Frank. Just like Alvarado. Watch the replay. Just because you said it doesn’t mean it is factual. The tape will show proof.

I did. just for you.

 

[SoBeCuse]

I did. just for you.

Much obliged!

 

[JoeySimz]

Again it comes to this. You would actually have the gaul to admit to me, face to face, that Frank didn’t get owned by Johnson? Or at the very least Johnson got the better of him? Johnson changed the damn game singlehandedly!

Choose your answer wisely. I will have time in the next few days to chart specific times/plays. Edit: Looks like JoeySimz just posted the homer version. To be cont’d.

Dude, I thought you gave me props so I'm confused now. It's one thing to say my view is more rosey than yours, but now I think you're mocking me by calling it that.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Dude, I thought you gave me props so I'm confused now. It's one thing to say my view is more rosey than yours, but now I think you're mocking me by calling it that.

Definitely more props than mocking trust me. That was well done. I may not see eye to eye with what actually happened in some of those plays but; nicely done.

 

[Chip]

Alright.

I’ll say it.

I liked the shove. The nc state player was grappling and jawing at frank on the way down. Im glad someones showing a pulse. Our team has two emotions, yay I just hit a three and im tired time to roll over.

Liked it from frank.

Agree. If we can’t keep up with them, try something else. Desperation time. My only problem with his execution is that he needs to make sure he injures the guy. Level the playing field.

Someone said it in this thread, turn that play around. This board would want the NC State player kicked out of the league, and the double T would have been laced with tobacco.

 

[Chip]

Again, not a coincidence we keep losing tight games this year.

Not fighting over screens - Dead legs.

Missing end game free throws - Dead legs.

No idea how we keep having "Blame Frank" threads.

Blame coach who only plays one friggin defense all game. So sick of it.

And I think it’s impressive that we have so many close games. There are about 11 healthy legs on the roster. Some of them should be playing about 5 minutes a game as they learn and develop. But there they are, for 30.

Might be the best job JB has ever done, with this group.

If our opponents were allowed to pick whoever they want from our team, most would just pick 1 guy.

We can blame JB for that but that’s a completely different thread, maybe more. A lot of layers to that onion.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

I never compared Howard to Chamberlain, and made it clear that Chamberlain wasn't unique in terms of logging big minutes in his day.

Actually, you did.

First, you stated that, just because Battle and Howard know they are going to play 40, they should be "conditioned" to play 40 and it shouldn't be an issue.

Then, you used the fact that NBA players used to play close to 48 minutes to support your argument.

Finally, you used Chamberlain as an example of one of those NBA players.

So, in essence, you did compare Howard to Chamberlain.

 

[RF2044]

And I think it’s impressive that we have so many close games. There are about 11 healthy legs on the roster. Some of them should be playing about 5 minutes a game as they learn and develop. But there they are, for 30.

Might be the best job JB has ever done, with this group.

If our opponents were allowed to pick whoever they want from our team, most would just pick 1 guy.

We can blame JB for that but that’s a completely different thread, maybe more. A lot of layers to that onion.

Very good post.

When you think about the scoring, shooting, and rebounding we lost from last year's team [which essentially was all of it, across the board, save for Battle] -- and then consider than we have a frontcourt comprised entirely of frosh with one guy [Chukwu] who hadn't played much and proven even less, and then factor in the injury situation...

Pretty freaking amazing coaching job, with the parts on hand.

 

[manleyzoo]

I think that's an absurd generalization.

Coleman took a ton of heat from local fans for hitting the Cornell kid. It was CORNELL!

Pearl hitting Ewing is equivalent to Frank shoving that ncstate player in your mind? Not comparable in any way. Those games were freaking wars.

Mouthing off, jumping on tables, preening, glaring etc...doesn't equate to placing a hand on another player.

Let's start with correcting your memory of the Cornell game with some facts: Coleman wasn't even on the floor when the fight happened. What he did had nothing to do with playing in the heat of the battle. He came off the bench to join the fight as did players from both teams. It was Brower who went crazy. In fact, post game while JB didn't condone the fight, he didn't back away from it either. Here's his quote: "I think when people hit you, you tend to lose your temper. It's something that shouldn't happen but when people elbow you it does happen. When you get fouled physically it tends to lead to that kind of thing. It's not good. It's not something you want to see in the game of basketball or any game but tempers do flare in the heat of battle."

Not exactly Coleman, Brower, Seikely, Hughes, Duncan, etc. getting a lot of heat publicly from JB. Actually, it was Cornell fans who brought the heat, not local fans. And the Cornell players pretty much took it in stride. Both teams were regretful but not exactly apologetic.

On Pearl and Ewing, I never said that fight was equivalent to Frank's shove. Somehow you think that a game has to be a war before it's legitimate for a player to react to something physical. You implied that players have to reach a certain stature before they can fight back. That's bs. I'm saying players reach that level by solid play and standing up for themselves. They go hand in hand.

As for mouthing off, jumping on tables, preening, glaring, etc. last I looked it was that kind of behavior that refs now try to cut out, knowing that it can sometimes escalate. Never said anything about that or conflated the two.