FSU vs The ACC

[HtownOrange]

Texas and Oklahoma said to the B12...

My offer is this: Nothing. Not even the exit fee or the money FOX wants, which we would appreciate if you would put up personally.

The B12 bylaws said Texas and Oklahoma owed an $80M exit fee each. They did not pay a thing. The B12 owned those school's TV rights in 2024, and they did not pay the B12 anything for those rights. FOX supposedly settled for $20M for the 2024 TV rights which will be paid by the B12, not Texas or Oklahoma.

Texas and Oklahoma paid a combined $0.00 and had $0.00 withheld from the B12.


Now the FSU situation is completely different. They have a dozen years left instead of only one. And if they go to the B18, ESPN needs to be made whole. If we are using the $20M/year precedent for TV rights, that is a lot of money.

Also remember the ACC wanted a $52M exit fee from Maryland, who got off for only $31M. So that is another precedent to keep in mind.


If the SEC wants FSU, they can leave for a similar deal as Texas/Oklahoma since ESPN owns both the SEC and ACC. But there is no incentive to take FSU before 2032 given the SEC's current TV deal. So why meet today about an SEC move?

If FSU wants to move to the B18 they need to...

1. Establish what FSU's TV value is. Which BTW they kind of screwed themselves when they pushed for more ACC money. They overvalued themselves and cannot now low ball it.

2. Establish that ESPN is severely under paying the ACC. The problem here is this conflicts with keeping the first point low.

3. Establish that the ACC value post FSU is the same as what ESPN currently pays the ACC. Which means ESPN is paying fair market value, and is not damaged by FSU leaving.

Even if they pulled off the above (which I think isn't possible), they would need to forgo B18 TV $ compensation for the length of the ACC GOR. They cannot get paid for something they do not own (just like Texas and Oklahoma next year in the SEC). Which means FSU will be getting less money in the B18 vs staying in the ACC. So what exactly is the point in leaving?

The other option is to buy back the TV rights. Which they cannot afford to do.

UT and OU did not receive payouts other than postseason. I have not yet seen a credible source breakdown what you present.

OU and UT agreed to each pay double+ the one year TV revenue to leave early. How that money is paid is what most people screw up. Neither has been paid for this season, typically, the last season monies are withheld as part of the payment.

Anyway, if you have a credible source - not some moron "reporting" numbers form someone's uncle who has a friend who knows the janitor ... I will reconsider my position. However, the two schools made an agreement, the concept that a year later they give the Big 12 the middle finger is highly unlikely. Remember, most reporters have no clue how business works and the few stories I have read are by people who neither understand the numbers they are working with nor understand the many pots of money involved. This claim is why accountants exist.

 

[CuseCactus]

The unintended consequence of all of this is that the potential weakening of the GOR - will hurt 90% of the Big 4 institutions.

If these type of affiliated agreements are unenforceable - why won’t the jerks at OSU, ‘Bama, GA, MI and USC just renegotiate for the lions share? Why will there ever be equality with the “others” - like Ole Miss, Iowa, Indiana, MS ST., etc.?

Soooooo - hopefully the declaratory relief effort will fail and fail miserably for FSU. All of us “others” have much to lose.

Personally - a CFB world with 10 or so mega powers hoarding the lion’s share of money and resources sounds like a REALLY boring CFB world.

 

[WoadBlue]

Without Bowden they would be as Arizona State in FB - a sometimes successful program, but of course it was the rivalry with Miami too that helped to make them and UM won 5 of those mythical NCs. I still resent that they pushed him out early. Former President Thrasher was a party to that. That was disgraceful IMO but as someone said here the sociopaths in these schools would push a grandparent down a stairwell for more $$$, a condition dare I say that we see in this country today in many areas.

Did you pay any attention to FSU football during Bowden's final few years? He stepped aside too late; he took downward the program held built into a monster because he persisted in retaining his position when his age meant he did the job poorly. Beamer did the same thing at VT. ACC football was hurt by both those HOF coaches wanting to think their aging could not hurt anything.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

UT and OU did not receive payouts other than postseason. I have not yet seen a credible source breakdown what you present.

OU and UT agreed to each pay double+ the one year TV revenue to leave early. How that money is paid is what most people screw up. Neither has been paid for this season, typically, the last season monies are withheld as part of the payment.

Anyway, if you have a credible source - not some moron "reporting" numbers form someone's uncle who has a friend who knows the janitor ... I will reconsider my position. However, the two schools made an agreement, the concept that a year later they give the Big 12 the middle finger is highly unlikely. Remember, most reporters have no clue how business works and the few stories I have read are by people who neither understand the numbers they are working with nor understand the many pots of money involved. This claim is why accountants exist.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/big12/2023/09/22/texas-oklahoma-big-12-sec-espn-role-realignment/70910157007/

According to this article they will have their 2024-25 money withheld ($33M each) when they are in the SEC anyway. This is out of the B12 commish's mouth. What is more credible than that?

Do you have a better, credible source? Most articles were speculation and B12 commissioner spin. Their commish spun the numbers. Each team now gets $33M a year, not $40M. First he counted that $7M each as money withheld in 2023-24 when in reality it applied to every B12 team to pay for the new teams. It had nothing to do with the exit. Second he continued to inflate the numbers by $7M each for 2024-25. Then they are not receiving money ($33M) in a year they are not in the B12. Again spin. Reality nothing is being withheld when he claims $80M for 2024-25.

So he counted $7M in reduced 2023-24 payout that applied to all B12 teams as a "fee" for the exit (total BS). He counted the 2024-25 payout as $40M when in reality it is now $33M (2023 $7M + 2024 $40M = $47M). However that fake $40M is for 2024-25, when Texas and Oklahoma will be in the SEC! That is where the reported $50M each came from. It is actually $33M, not $50M and is withheld money from a season where neither are in the B12. It is fuzzy accounting. They actually paid nada.

What do you believe Texas and Oklahoma paid or had withheld?

 

[WoadBlue]

The unintended consequence of all of this is that the potential weakening of the GOR - will hurt 90% of the Big 4 institutions.

If these type of affiliated agreements are unenforceable - why won’t the jerks at OSU, ‘Bama, GA, MI and USC just renegotiate for the lions share? Why will there ever be equality with the “others” - like Ole Miss, Iowa, Indiana, MS ST., etc.?

Soooooo - hopefully the declaratory relief effort will fail and fail miserably for FSU. All of us “others” have much to lose.

Personally - a CFB world with 10 or so mega powers hoarding the lion’s share of money and resources sounds like a REALLY boring CFB world.

Telling that to those maybe 20 schools and to the BT and SEC is like telling John D Rockeller that his destroying all those small regional oil companies is bad for everybody but the Rockefellers and their best paid hired hands. John D sees that as a compliment to his genius and his drive.

 

[orangepassion]

I'm beginning to think FSU's strategy is to make so much noise that the ACC just lets them leave with little penalty. Hope the ACC hold them to every penny owed if they leave.

 

[RyanCuse44]

 

[RyanCuse44]

 

[RyanCuse44]

 

[RyanCuse44]

 

[Willy75]

Once they lose the litigation the other ACC schools should vote to rescind the revenue sharing enhancement FSU got last year.

 

[baggerbob]

No one wants them, even if they had the money to leave. The SEC isn't taking them because ESPN isn't going to add money to their contract. The Big isn't going to take them, Fox is already adding money for 2 new schools, and doesn't need a legal battle for TV rights.

 

[RyanCuse44]

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I have no doubt that FSU can get out of the ACC exit fee at a reduced rate. The problem is ESPN, who owns FSU's TV rights. They won't let FSU go. Best case for FSU is $200M (the supposed rate FOX took for one year of Texas/Oklahoma). So where they getting that $200M, assuming the B18 even wants FSU?

 

[Acesn8s]

Even if they get it down to say $300 million say 5 others try it as well , let’s split that Billion plus among remaining members, it will be better then Big ten media deal lol.

 

[Hoo's That]

And here comes the private equity, folks! Bunch of short-sighted, money grabbing idiots running college sports everything.

FIFY.

 

[richmondcuse03]

I have no doubt that FSU can get out of the ACC exit fee at a reduced rate. The problem is ESPN, who owns FSU's TV rights. They won't let FSU go. Best case for FSU is $200M (the supposed rate FOX took for one year of Texas/Oklahoma). So where they getting that $200M, assuming the B18 even wants FSU?

The rest of the schools won’t be reducing the penalties. Except perhaps someone like Clemson. I know where SU stands on this. FSU can write a check for half a billion or they can wait.

A litigation challenge they they lose….will result in even more enemies they have to deal with for a decade. It’s a stupid position.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

The ACC should withhold money from FSU to cover lawyer fees.

Also now that FSU is announcing their withdrawal, the rest of the ACC should vote FSU ineligible for ACC Championships. So next year if FSU is 10-2 they need to get in as an at large because they aren't in the ACC CG.

FSU made their bed there is no reason for the ACC to play nice.

 

[richmondcuse03]

The ACC should withhold money from FSU to cover lawyer fees.

Also now that FSU is announcing their withdrawal, the rest of the ACC should vote FSU ineligible for ACC Championships. So next year if FSU is 10-2 they need to get in as an at large because they aren't in the ACC CG.

FSU made their bed there is no reason for the ACC to play nice.

I’m curious if they could without triggering some clause that gives them a legal excuse. I expect they will be largely treated the same with zero favors given.

However I’d love for them to be docked legal fees if there’s a way to do that.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

The rest of the schools won’t be reducing the penalties. Except perhaps someone like Clemson. I know where SU stands on this. FSU can write a check for half a billion or they can wait.

A litigation challenge they they lose….will result in even more enemies they have to deal with for a decade. It’s a stupid position.

The TV rights have to do with ESPN and not the ACC. Also FSU can lay claim that the ACC needs to pay FSU a full share ($30M) even if they leave the ACC as they signed the GOR.

As to the exit fee, Maryland got off. Texas and Oklahoma got off. FSU will get off at a reduced rate. They aren't paying $100M to get out. The courts will take their side on that.

 

[721Comstock]

YOU VOTED FOR THE GOR!!!

Nobody forced you to do it.

Slide that $500 MILLION cashiers check under the ACC’s door, and they’ll be happy to let you leave.

 

[richmondcuse03]

The TV rights have to do with ESPN and not the ACC. Also FSU can lay claim that the ACC needs to pay FSU a full share ($30M) even if they leave the ACC as they signed the GOR.

As to the exit fee, Maryland got off. Texas and Oklahoma got off. FSU will get off at a reduced rate. They aren't paying $100M to get out. The courts will take their side on that.

Their argument amounts to “oops we don’t like the deal we were part of and signed.” Seems like a terrible precedent for contract law that would make all the other GORs useless. I don’t see them getting anywhere a reduced penalty that makes this pencil out.

Furthermore they need a home. The Big Ten doesn’t want them.

 

[David332]

 

[DPCuse]

It is an interesting argument to say, hey, there is precedent to the ACC only collecting about half of a schools withdrawal penalty 10 years ago. So why isn’t that being offered to FSU? Even if it was $300M, split among 15 schools that would equate to $20M per school. That doesn’t change the world. That doesn’t even build a wing in a building anymore.

 

[Hoo's That]

It’s a stupid theory. The state in this case is acting in a commercial capacity.

I would hope that in the conference agreement that state schools were made to waive any claims of sovereign immunity and that venue for all disputes would be in federal court.

I believe that the conference agreement requires that it be resolved in a NC state court (possibly in Raleigh? Charlotte?). I believe that became specified when Maryland sued the ACC in a Federal court in MD when it wanted to leave.