How I think the Committee made their picks | Syracusefan.com

How I think the Committee made their picks

jncuse

I brought the Cocaine to the White House
Joined
Feb 19, 2012
Messages
19,209
Like
32,805
Somebody on this board asked me yesterday, if I could analyze how I thought the Committee came up with their picks this year.


In summary:
  • Very metrics oriented this year (similar to 2014), less eye test than 2015
  • Top quality wins important for seeding and extremely important for the bubble
  • Incredibly consistent in how they went about it. There is not any seeds that I see as strange in relation to how they did something else.

They pretty much accepted the RPI top 50 numbers (not at an individual level) but at a conference level for every major conference.

  • Pac12 / Big 12 - They treated these 2 conferences as the 2 best ones in America, as the RPI would suggest. These teams had more top 50 opportunities in conference and they fully respected that.
  • ACC - The ACC was extremely strong at the top, and they fully rewarded this strength by giving two #1 seeds.
  • The Big Ten was clearly below the above 3 leagues in terms on conference RPI and top 100 teams in the league. And they stuck to the principles of metrics over "eye test". This was very clear in there selection of Oregon as a #1 seed over Michigan St #1. While most people thought MIchigan St is better, they stuck to what the numbers showed them.
  • The Big East was adequately respected, Nova not being a #1 had nothing to do with them being in the Big East. It was the fact that they lost to Virginia and Oklahoma. They simply could not beat elite teams. Win one of those 2 games and maybe they are a #1
  • AAC - they finally respected the AAC. A top 50 win vs an AAC team was as good as a top 50 win vs any P5 team. This is why Temple and Tulsa got in,
  • The only multiple bid conference that it did not fully respect its numbers were the A-10. It seems like they though some of the teams were overvalued by traditional metrics, and probably rightly so. Perhaps it's because they looked at KP and saw GW and St. Bonaventure at #77 and #79 respectively. Even Dayton was just #54.
So now how did they select the bubble. They probably had a shortlist of bubble teams that had a mix of P5 and smaller school:

  • It seems at the end of the day the criteria they were going to rely upon the most was quality / quantity of top 50 wins. So Syracuse, Temple, Michigan and Tulsa got in. But the small schools on the bubble got punished with this appraoch.
  • That left 2 spots and nobody had a great quality win portfolio. I honestly think they took the last 2 (Wichita St and Vanderbilt) on the eye test alone or based on power ratings. These 2 schools were probably the most talented / best on paper of the entire bunch, and had the KP to support it. So they made these two teams go forward but play each other.

It's not like the teams that were jeft out had glowing resumes. So they took the 2 best based on eye test or power rankings
- San Diego St was meh.
- St Bonnies was a terrible #79 in KP.
- St. Mary's did not test itself like it should
- Monmouth had 3 really bad losses.

In the end the way they chose the bubble was consistent.

I have heard some people say they did a terrible job today. Lunardi influences a lot of that. But they were consistent and stuck with one of the old reliables = QUALITY WINS. They did not speculate on low mid majors. You can argue that they should not have accepted the numbers of the PAC and AAC at face value. But they did, and for this reason the choice of Temple and Tulsa makes perfect sense.

Where they could have got in trouble as a committee was trying to split hairs among the apples and oranges that were on the bubble line. That is where things get really arbitrary. Did the small guys really get screwed? Given the major warts they had, nope.

Overall Grade : B+. I think they accepted the RPI generated top 50 win numbers for Pac-12 and AAC teams a little too much, and I think they could have been discounted. At the same time, they decided not to play to much "god", and just accept what was the numbers. Very strong mark for consistency in handling the seeds and breaking the bubble.
 
Last edited:
I just don't get the money and TV ratings argument. This tournament is a freaking high powered money making MACHINE.

And the funniest thing I heard today was from a Virginia Tech grad saying they got screwed.
 
I just don't get the money and TV ratings argument. This tournament is a freaking high powered money making MACHINE.

And the funniest thing I heard today was from a Virginia Tech grad saying they got screwed.

Screwed from what?
 
It is amusing to me that Lunardi is still ranting on how inconsistent the committee was this year. The worst yet he claims. He can't figure out where he went wrong, and says he is unable to analyze his losses for future years. This is the guy that for some reason says he can understand why Vanderbilt got in, but can't understand Syracuse.

Take away Syracuse and we both got 2 wrong. But I can make sense of how the bubble was selected (even Tulsa), see that it is reasonable and use it is as a point moving forward. I'm just not sure why he can't.

1) They picked the teams with quality wins first and they had more respect for the AAC because they were a little deeper this year.
2) For the rest who all have major warts, pick the teams that are best on paper / eye test/ KP (Wichita St / Vandy)

It would be a bailout to purely rely on #1, if the leftovers did not have one glaring issue. But each one had a glaring issue that was actually beyond simply lack of opportunity to win top games
 
I just don't get the money and TV ratings argument. This tournament is a freaking high powered money making MACHINE.

And the funniest thing I heard today was from a Virginia Tech grad saying they got screwed.

Yeah people talk about this stuff all the time, but like, we're playing in the 12:15 game on Friday for instance. Like we're gonna move the rating any?
 
The irony of the St Bonnie's argument is they count as a Top 50 win for us, which we used as support to get into the tourney, but they weren't good enough to get into the tourney because they didn't have enough quality wins. Circular argument.
 
Sunday Noon Game vs Michigan State would though

I really don't think moving a second round game rating half a point or whatever appreciably generates any more revenue for CBS.

The irony of the St Bonnie's argument is they count as a Top 50 win for us, which we used as support to get into the tourney, but they weren't good enough to get into the tourney because they didn't have enough quality wins. Circular argument.

Yeah this is sometimes funny to me; they base the top 50 wins on RPI, so if you've decided thats the metric, why not just pick the best teams by RPI.
 
The Bonnies need to play a better nonconference schedule.
That is the short of it.

They played all 11 nonconference games in NY. 8 home, 3 on the road all in NY. If Syracuse did that Lunardi would hammer Jim Boeheim but because it is an A-10 team he refuses to acknowledge that.

The Bonnies played only 1 challenge game at Syracuse and lost it. They were in control and competitive but they lost.

Sorry if you going to rest on conference play you better have a lot of good tournament team wins on your resume.

They split with Dayton, swept St. Joe's and lost to VCU but also beat George Washington.

Those 4 wins are not enough for an NCAA at-large. Bonnies you need to take 2 paycheck games next year from ACC/Big East/Big Ten teams.

If you beat anybody in the nonconference then they would have had a better chance.
 
The Bonnies need to play a better nonconference schedule.
That is the short of it.

They played all 11 nonconference games in NY. 8 home, 3 on the road all in NY. If Syracuse did that Lunardi would hammer Jim Boeheim but because it is an A-10 team he refuses to acknowledge that.

The Bonnies played only 1 challenge game at Syracuse and lost it. They were in control and competitive but they lost.

Sorry if you going to rest on conference play you better have a lot of good tournament team wins on your resume.

They split with Dayton, swept St. Joe's and lost to VCU but also beat George Washington.

Those 4 wins are not enough for an NCAA at-large. Bonnies you need to take 2 paycheck games next year from ACC/Big East/Big Ten teams.

If you beat anybody in the nonconference then they would have had a better chance.

That's fair but if you look at some of the other bubble teams...their non-conf wins weren't anymore impressive. Vandy(Stony Brook), temple (Minnesota) , Tulsa (Ohio). It's clear that when it's too close to call, the committee will always give the benefit of the doubt to the larger school. I for one would much rather watch Monmouth vs. bonas in first 4 rather than umich vs Tulsa. 2 large schools coming off mediocre seasons that will most likely get waxed in the next round or two smaller schools that are coming off their best season in years battling at it?
 
Monmouth had 3 problems:
1 - Win over UCLA didn't count for much because despite their name they weren't very good.
2 - See #1 but insert Georgetown.
3 - They lost to freaking Army! In basketball!

If UCLA and Georgetown were as good as they expected when they scheduled them Monmouth would've gotten in.
 
That's fair but if you look at some of the other bubble teams...their non-conf wins weren't anymore impressive. Vandy(Stony Brook), temple (Minnesota) , Tulsa (Ohio). It's clear that when it's too close to call, the committee will always give the benefit of the doubt to the larger school. I for one would much rather watch Monmouth vs. bonas in first 4 rather than umich vs Tulsa. 2 large schools coming off mediocre seasons that will most likely get waxed in the next round or two smaller schools that are coming off their best season in years battling at it?
Temple played a lot of good nonconference teams. They just lost all of them.

Vanderbilt played in the Maui Classic and they also played Baylor/Purdue and lost.
Tulsa played Wichita State and other good teams.

The Bonnies should have challenged themselves but they didn't only 1 P5 team in the nonconference is terrible. They lost to Syracuse and didn't play anyone else good. Sorry that has to change if you wan an at-large.

I would have put Monmouth in over Tulsa but the committee gave the American more credit than it has in the past. Michigan beat Indiana on a neutral floor and earned their play-in game.
 
Monmouth had 3 problems:
1 - Win over UCLA didn't count for much because despite their name they weren't very good.
2 - See #1 but insert Georgetown.
3 - They lost to freaking Army! In basketball!

If UCLA and Georgetown were as good as they expected when they scheduled them Monmouth would've gotten in.

That may be true, but it's also possible Monmouth wouldn't have beaten them. ;)
 
That may be true, but it's also possible Monmouth wouldn't have beaten them. ;)

This.
Well, they still probably woulda beaten Georgetown, because: Georgetown. :p

Their "name brand" wins were hollow, and they had 3 horrible losses as bad or worse than our SJU loss.

If their "bench mob" wasn't mildly amusing, would anybody actually even care that Monmouth didn't make it?
 

Forum statistics

Threads
167,998
Messages
4,743,737
Members
5,936
Latest member
KD95

Online statistics

Members online
67
Guests online
1,434
Total visitors
1,501


Top Bottom