How to Fix SU Football?

[NineOneSeven]

This has to be the most insane post ever.

^

 

[GoSU96]

Agree that the sky is not falling and we stink rants are exaggerated. However, isn't what you state and the title of the thread really one and the same? I think think that was the premise for the thread. How do we go from the status you described so well, to the next level? Really, we have been on average, in this rut for decades.

The thread was derailed from asking for fixes on how to go to the next level to a lot of other discussions as threads often do. My bottom line is that NIL money will be what it is and the average fan has no control over it. So...what's the point in debating it. The only thing in my opinion that takes us to the next level you mention is a home run coaching staff. Will it happen? We don't know. But, we won't ever know if they don't try to find one either...

The team post Covid has been better against what would be considered peer programs.

I read the premise of the original post that this is a tear down to the studs reclamation project, That’s nuts.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Yeah, but make no mistake, there's a more than a correlation between why teams that consistently rank high in recruiting are consistently good and in the top 25. And, teams like SU who routinely are at/near the bottom of the rankings in its respective conference are just that, near the bottom.

When we have been so bad for so long, it's remarkably convenient (comical actually) to dismiss the ranking as malarkey, etc.

Well, regardless of bias on the part of some evaluators, if the ratings system is such crap, then surely we should have had more than 2 winning seasons in the last 10.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

The team post Covid has been better against what would be considered peer programs.

I read the premise of the original post that this is a tear down to the studs reclamation project, That’s nuts.

Post Covid against similar programs we are:

8Ws
8 Ls
380 points for
403 points against
which is about minus 1.5 ppg.


Edit

On 2nd thought make that 8-9 387-443 a difference of 3.25 ppg.

 

[ClkWrkOrange]

-No injuries, especially to Garrett. If we lose Garrett, we are in major trouble.

Why? I read on here often that he is the problem.

 

[MikeSU02]

Who should our 3-5 top peer schools? Doesn't need to be ACC only.

If we had to really drill down to who we should measure against, who would that be?

Duke? Michigan St? West Virginia? BC? Genuinely curious what people think.

 

[Cuse181]

Who should our 3-5 top peer schools? Doesn't need to be ACC only.

If we had to really drill down to who we should measure against, who would that be?

Duke? Michigan St? West Virginia? BC? Genuinely curious what people think.

My Take: BC, Duke, Northwestern, Baylor. Private schools with 10K+ undergrad enrollment and a mid-tier (at best) football history,

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Who should our 3-5 top peer schools? Doesn't need to be ACC only.

If we had to really drill down to who we should measure against, who would that be?

Duke? Michigan St? West Virginia? BC? Genuinely curious what people think.

Such a hard question because you can go in so many ways.

It would have to be a P4 program for sure. Then what?

Should all state schools count? If not which ones and why?

Flagship schools? But then you have West Virginia, who I think should count.

Do we remove all B18 and SEC? A lot of the B18 seems to be on par with SU as a program.

Do you use fanbase size? If you look at attendance, schools similar to SU are: Rutgers, Illinois, Maryland, Northwestern, UVA, GA Tech, Cal, BC, Stanford, UCF, Arizona, Cincinnati.

Do you take culture into account? The ACC has a lot of schools that are private or act like privates, and care more about BBall.

Do you consider recruiting area? Hard to compare Baylor when they have all those in state recruits.

 

[rrlbees]

Who should our 3-5 top peer schools? Doesn't need to be ACC only.

If we had to really drill down to who we should measure against, who would that be?

Duke? Michigan St? West Virginia? BC? Genuinely curious what people think.

Pitt, BC, WVU.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Such a hard question because you can go in so many ways.

It would have to be a P4 program for sure. Then what?

Should all state schools count? If not which ones and why?

Flagship schools? But then you have West Virginia, who I think should count.

Do we remove all B18 and SEC? A lot of the B18 seems to be on par with SU as a program.

Do you use fanbase size? If you look at attendance, schools similar to SU are: Rutgers, Illinois, Maryland, Northwestern, UVA, GA Tech, Cal, BC, Stanford, UCF, Arizona, Cincinnati.

Do you take culture into account? The ACC has a lot of schools that are private or act like privates, and care more about BBall.

Do you consider recruiting area? Hard to compare Baylor when they have all those in state recruits.

Some other considerations:

Region? Can you really compare a team from the West?

Head to head? If you never play each other does that factor in?


Going back to your question I think BC and Pitt for sure. I might put UVA #3.

 

[GoSU96]

Pitt, BC, WVU.

That’s the core. Add rutty, umd, uva, vt, wake, Duke, ncst, lville, gt, b10-Osu, mich, psu,

 

[rrlbees]

That’s the core. Add rutty, umd, uva, vt, wake, Duke, ncst, lville, gt, b10-Osu, mich, psu,

That’s more than the 3-5 he asked for. If I was gonna go to 5 I would have added 2 of vt, md and Rutgers.

 

[Deleted member 8116]

Del-Rio Wilson, Shrader and Villari are all SEC caliber athletes. Del-Rio Wilson’s talent has been overlooked. Move Shrader to WR. He has experience there from making the switch at Mississippi State. A Cooper Kupp type of role opposite Alford/Hatcher. With Villari that’s three QB’s on the field at the same time and could make things interesting. If we get blown out this weekend, make the change immediately with the bye week to get the system down.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Who should our 3-5 top peer schools? Doesn't need to be ACC only.

If we had to really drill down to who we should measure against, who would that be?

Duke? Michigan St? West Virginia? BC? Genuinely curious what people think.

All-time, it should be WVU, Pitt, BC and Rutgers.

You might make an argument for Maryland, Penn State (but not really), or maybe Temple, as a substitute, but those first 4 teams are our traditional football rivals.

 

[richard levy]

2 fixed games against protected schools I wouldn't flip out until the rest of the year plays itself out.

Not sure why you would expect our AD to outpunch the 20-30 programs that have bigger fanbases than some NFL teams and pockets just as deep too. We're lucky we get to play peer schools like BC and aren't in a situation like Rutgers or Vandy.

I think Dino's buyout is low enough that you can move on if the last 6 games are UGLY. Someone like Sean Lewis could be a home run hire after spending a year working with Prime or bringing back Tony White with his northeast ties. Problem is there's very little chance we get continuity you either hit a home run and the guy leaves after 1-2 years or you owe a crazy amount of money to someone that sucks and can't afford to fire him.

For what it’s worth, Vanderbilt is in the midst of a $300 million fundraising campaign to sorely upgrade football, basketball baseball and other athletic facilities, over $200 million raised and construction well under way. Yes this pales in comparison to the other SEC schools. But even Vandy recognizes put up or shut up

 

[IthacaMatt]

Cherry picking our worst games.

He (or the poster Bayside was referring to) were implying that we are usually competitive and seldom get blown out.

This is all still in the context of the fan discussion. And I have been in attendance at MANY of those embarrassments. I've been ashamed at the lack of effort too many times to count.

Syracuse used to be a tough town. We used to be a town that would kick your ass. The University does not reflect the general ornery disposition of the locals. Ben Schwarzwalder was the essence of my fathers' and grandfathers' generations. That's who we were.

And if you want to be charitable, Coach Mac was who many of us aspired to be. What a sweet man!

People who worked in factories, worked in steel mills or gun factories (I have personally done all three...), those are a certain generation of Syracuse fans, yes the older ones, who feel like the culture of the program has been lost a bit.

We used to rise up and win these big intersectional games. Louis & Bouie established Boeheim as a coach with a win at Purdue with Joe Barry Carroll back in about 1978 or so. We used to play and beat top, top teams, in both sports, for 30 or 40 years. There was the big win vs. Tennessee with Bernard King, and against Houston's Phi Slamma Jamma at the Dome.

Let me remind you of a few in football - Nebraska at the Dome, Auburn, Georgia, Notre Dame - both home and away, Florida in the Dome, LSU, Clemson, Michigan at the Big House, Colorado, Ohio State. We used to play and beat anybody. We represented hard-ass Northeastern football at one time, and we used to take particular pleasure in going down there and beating those Southern schools in bowl games for the better part of 15 years.

We lack guts now. We need more tough guys. It's a man's game. Everybody seems to get hurt every freaking game.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Some other considerations:

Region? Can you really compare a team from the West?

Head to head? If you never play each other does that factor in?


Going back to your question I think BC and Pitt for sure. I might put UVA #3.

How about "teams we actually feel rivalries with?"

That's what the ACC ruined.

Imagine if the ACC division we signed up for was all the old Big East teams - Miami, BC, Pitt, SU, Va. Tech - and then add whoever you want, like Florida State unless you want to give them and Miami separate 'clear paths' to the Championship Game (which is what people were thinking 20 years ago ...). Clemson was not such a big deal back then.

And then let ND play against the "Old Big East Division", and throw in UVa and Ga Tech or Wake. That would have been great.

 

[CousCuse]

He (or the poster Bayside was referring to) were implying that we are usually competitive and seldom get blown out.

This is all still in the context of the fan discussion. And I have been in attendance at MANY of those embarrassments. I've been ashamed at the lack of effort too many times to count.

Syracuse used to be a tough town. We used to be a town that would kick your ass. The University does not reflect the general ornery disposition of the locals. Ben Schwarzwalder was the essence of my fathers' and grandfathers' generations. That's who we were.

And if you want to be charitable, Coach Mac was who many of us aspired to be. What a sweet man!

People who worked in factories, worked in steel mills or gun factories (I have personally done all three...), those are a certain generation of Syracuse fans, yes the older ones, who feel like the culture of the program has been lost a bit.

We used to rise up and win these big intersectional games. Louis & Bouie established Boeheim as a coach with a win at Purdue with Joe Barry Carroll back in about 1978 or so. We used to play and beat top, top teams, in both sports, for 30 or 40 years. There was the big win vs. Tennessee with Bernard King, and against Houston's Phi Slamma Jamma at the Dome.

Let me remind you of a few in football - Nebraska at the Dome, Auburn, Georgia, Notre Dame - both home and away, Florida in the Dome, LSU, Clemson, Michigan at the Big House, Colorado, Ohio State. We used to play and beat anybody. We represented hard-ass Northeastern football at one time, and we used to take particular pleasure in going down there and beating those Southern schools in bowl games for the better part of 15 years.

We lack guts now. We need more tough guys. It's a man's game. Everybody seems to get hurt every freaking game.

I always wanted an 870 deerslayer. Let's just face it, we're weak nowadays. maybe get to .500 against weak teams and with smoke and mirrors. Beat NC State last year when their starting QB went out and that's a quality win. Go96 is a joker.

 

[OburgOrange]

Same ol, same ol

 

[OburgOrange]

Sigh…..

 

[GoSU96]

Sigh…..

Why the sigh?

Great win, but do you think being a 4-8 program that springs the occasional upset is better than where the team is now?

 

[GoSU96]

I always wanted an 870 deerslayer. Let's just face it, we're weak nowadays. maybe get to .500 against weak teams and with smoke and mirrors. Beat NC State last year when their starting QB went out and that's a quality win. Go96 is a joker.

It’s better than losing to them you clown.

 

[CousCuse]

It’s better than losing to them you clown.

And Purdue with 2, 15 yard penalties to hand Syracuse a chance to win which they did and LVille having a new OC on opening night with Cunningham looking lost. Go under the hood and it's some pretty thin business. They beat UVA last year in a game that seemed like 2 equals, which I think is their level,

 

[orangecuse]

No. He has been a terrible recruiter, so a 7-5 record should not be enough when you consider both. He is complaining about depth and they still have half a season to go. If they can 9-3/8-4 and we see improvement with recruiting as well; then ok.

No doubt, no. I realize that 7-5 appears adequate enough, however, I do find it, let's just say interesting, how many folks seemingly are okay with another losing peer/ACC (3-5) conference record if that's how it plays out.

IMO, this type of "settling" is what will continue contributing to making SU such a non player in its own conference, etc., without hope of ever breaking into the top 25. Having, at the very minimum, at least a .500 record in the ACC is not such an accomplished feat when looking at what the ACC is and has been from top to bottom since Syracuse has been a member.

 

[Cuse12]

Step 1: fire the HC.
Step 2: just figure it out from there