Is Boeheim overrated?

[HOFCeluck]

His stock seems to have gone down in recent year and If you look around the Internet a lot of CBB fans seem to think so. His record post NC seems to point in that direction too.

I'm not trying to flame. It's been almost ten years since the national championship and I'd like to hear some thoughts.

Personally I think yes, a little.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

No. 2 out of the last 3 years, but for missing a center, he"s in the FF' with at least one NC. He gets flak because he is perceived to have better talent than he does, and that is because of his coaching. Rarely do we have can"t miss NBA guys, but he turns them into great college players by putting them in position to succeed. (Gmac, Hak, Scoop, DNic, D Brown Moten, Burgen, etc. ) He never has as much pure talent as people think.

 

[weedsportwarriors]

His stock seems to have gone down in recent year and If you look around the Internet a lot of CBB fans seem to think so. His record post NC seems to point in that direction too.

I'm not trying to flame. It's been almost ten years since the national championship and I'd like to hear some thoughts.

Personally I think yes, a little.

There is no way he is overrated. All of the talk online is from jealous haters. He has put a system in place and run it to perfection. If it had not been for injuries and ineligible players we would be talking about a dynasty in the last 10 years, instead of a coach being overrated.

 

[Melancer46]

My only complaint about him is that he sometimes gets too stubborn and won't change things up when he should (like playing a press defense this past season).

However, I don't think you can call a coach overrated when we're one of the best teams in the country basically year in and year out while having very little NBA talent. Carmelo is still like the only Syracuse player that currently is doing anything productive in the NBA.

 

[HOFCeluck]

No. 2 out of the last 3 years, but for missing a center, he"s in the FF' with at least one NC. He gets flak because he is perceived to have better talent than he does, and that is because of his coaching. Rarely do we have can"t miss NBA guys, but he turns them into great college players by putting them in position to succeed. (Gmac, Hak, Scoop, DNic, D Brown Moten, Burgen, etc. ) He never has as much pure talent as people think.

There's no guarantee we beat Ohio State with Fab, and theres really no excuse for losing to Butler, AO or not.

The narrative (which I agree with) is that our recruiting has taken off the last ten years. We've had seven players in the McDonalds game since 2003, a couple more that really should've made it. And now you want to argue that he hasn't been getting elite talent?

 

[OrangeDW]

He's won 119 games in the last 4 years, 2 BE titles, an elite 8, and 2 sweet 16's. If anything, his stock should be skyrocketing with people who pay attention and know what they're talking about. SU hasn't had a 4 year stretch like this in a long time. And that's with two horrible breaks at the end of the year, for 2 of those seasons.

 

[Alsacs]

He is not overrated, with the NCAA tournament being a 1 and done experience the "best" teams don't always win. JB has had a very consistent outstanding career and is one shot from having 2 NCs. College basketball is different than other sports in that how they decide their champion in a manner that creates excitement but favors the underdog more than any sport. If JB had 1 more NC nobody would say he is overrated, but the 1 NC is why you hear the chatter. However, JB has been one of Coach K's assistants for the US Sr. Men's team if JB was overrated he wouldn't be asked to be part of that staff.

 

[HOFCeluck]

My only complaint about him is that he sometimes gets too stubborn and won't change things up when he should (like playing a press defense this past season).

However, I don't think you can call a coach overrated when we're one of the best teams in the country basically year in and year out while having very little NBA talent. Carmelo is still like the only Syracuse player that currently is doing anything productive in the NBA.

He's had ten players drafted by count since 2003
Carmelo
Warrick
NIchols
Greene
Flynn
Wes
Fab
Kjo
Dion
Rautins

I can't remember if Watkins was drafted.

I think some would argue that Syracuse players don't do well in the NBA because they're so poor defensively, with the exception of Jason Hart.

 

[OrangeDW]

There's no guarantee we beat Ohio State with Fab, and theres really no excuse for losing to Butler, AO or not.

The narrative (which I agree with) is that our recruiting has taken off the last ten years. We've had seven players in the McDonalds game since 2003, a couple more that really should've made it. And now you want to argue that he hasn't been getting elite talent?

Butler was a basket away from being national champions.

As for OSU, there's no guarantees with anything, but in a close game between two pretty evenly matched teams, your starting freakin center could certainly tip the scales in your favor.

 

[Melancer46]

He's had ten players drafted by count since 2003
Carmelo
Warrick
NIchols
Greene
Flynn
Wes
Fab
Kjo
Dion
Rautins

I can't remember if Watkins was drafted.

I think some would argue that Syracuse players don't do well in the NBA because they're so poor defensively, with the exception of Jason Hart.

Except none of those guys could score in the NBA either (besides Melo and Warrick if he's playing with Steve Nash).

 

[HOFCeluck]

, JB has been one of Coach K's assistants for the US Sr. Men's team if JB was overrated he wouldn't be asked to be part of that staff.

"overrated" and "bad" are not synonyms.

 

[OrangeDW]

He's had ten players drafted by count since 2003
Carmelo
Warrick
NIchols
Greene
Flynn
Wes
Fab
Kjo
Dion
Rautins

I can't remember if Watkins was drafted.

I think some would argue that Syracuse players don't do well in the NBA because they're so poor defensively, with the exception of Jason Hart.

I think the fact that guys like Rautins and Nichols got drafted at all is a huge positive for Boeheim and the SU program, based on where they were coming out of HS and in their early SU careers.

Warrick had more natural athleticism, but his game might've improved more than anyone's over 4 years.

Wes went from a nobody at Iowa State, to a national star and high pick at SU.

I know where Melo was ranked, but he was horrible at basketball when he first got to Cuse.

I mean, listing guys like that and acting like it's a negative for SU that they aren't star NBA players(Warrick's had a good career) is laughable. It's a huge positive for Boeheim that those guys even made it.

Melo, Flynn, Greene, and Waiters are the only ones who projected as NBA players from day 1 at SU.

 

[OrangeDW]

Except none of those guys could score in the NBA either (besides Melo and Warrick if he's playing with Steve Nash).

What? Warrick's best scoring years were in Memphis and had nothing to do with Steve Nash. The hope was that he would explode with Nash, but that didn't happen.

But in Memphis, he was a consistent double figure guy. And I don't know how many remember this, but he was Memphis's leading scorer for much of his 2nd season in the league. Gasol was hurt to start the year and missed like 30 games, and Warrick was leading them in scoring at that time at like 16-17 points per game. Once Gasol came back, his minutes and production went down.

 

[CusefanATL]

had no idea he stock has been dropping in recent years.

actually, i know it hasnt.

 

[HOFCeluck]

had no idea he stock has been dropping in recent years.

actually, i know it hasnt.

In the eyes of casual basketball fans.

 

[alphaorange]

He's had ten players drafted by count since 2003
Carmelo
Warrick
NIchols
Greene
Flynn
Wes
Fab
Kjo
Dion
Rautins

I can't remember if Watkins was drafted.

I think some would argue that Syracuse players don't do well in the NBA because they're so poor defensively, with the exception of Jason Hart.

So which of those players are NBA level offensive players?

 

[NKR1978]

His stock seems to have gone down in recent year and If you look around the Internet a lot of CBB fans seem to think so. His record post NC seems to point in that direction too.

I'm not trying to flame. It's been almost ten years since the national championship and I'd like to hear some thoughts.

Personally I think yes, a little.

You might not be trying to flame, but you seem dead set on arguing any point someone makes that Boeheim is not overrated.

If you look at college basketball as just the tournament, then there's an argument if you look at the totality of results since 2003. If you look at the last four years, every school in the country except those that made the Final Four would kill for our record and results. Getting over the Sweet 16 hump was incredibly important.

Since 2003 we've had: 2 BET titles, including one of the great runs in conference tournament history; 2 outright BE regular season championships including only the 2nd 17-1 season in the history of the BE; 2 30 win season; 3 Sweet 16 appearances and an Elite 8. All but Duke, Florida, UNC, UConn, Kentucky, MSU, UCLA, Ohio State, Butler and Kansas wouldn't want to change their results for ours since 2003. That puts us in the top 15 programs over the last 10 seasons. I don't see how anyone could make a reasonable argument that Boeheim is overrated when using objective criteria.

 

[HOFCeluck]

I think the fact that guys like Rautins and Nichols got drafted at all is a huge positive for Boeheim and the SU program, based on where they were coming out of HS and in their early SU careers.

Warrick had more natural athleticism, but his game might've improved more than anyone's over 4 years.

I agree.

Wes went from a nobody at Iowa State, to a national star and high pick at SU.

I know where Melo was ranked, but he was horrible at basketball when he first got to Cuse.

I mean, listing guys like that and acting like it's a negative for SU that they aren't star NBA players(Warrick's had a good career) is laughable. It's a huge positive for Boeheim that those guys even made it.

Melo, Flynn, Greene, and Waiters are the only ones who projected as NBA players from day 1 at SU.

I agree

 

[OrangeDW]

In the eyes of casual basketball fans.

In the eyes of an extremely small segment of angry, malcontent SU "fans" would probably be more accurate.

I was going to include Georgetown, UConn, and other opposing fans that hate us, but I think most of them even recognize that SU is rolling along like a well-oiled machine right now.

 

[Alsacs]

For crying out loud ESPN just researched the last 50 years of college basketball and ranked Syracuse #8. JB is responsible for 35+ plus of those years. JB only has 1 NC, and while we as fans wish we had more NCs I would never say JB is overrated. Is he frustrating sometimes yes, but overrated as a coach? Hell no. The guy has What losses in the NCAA Tournament, but as I said before the NCAAT is a one and done tournament the best teams don't always win. Jim Boeheim is one of the top 5 coaches of his era and is not overrated.

 

[HOFCeluck]

You might not be trying to flame, but you seem dead set on arguing any point someone makes that Boeheim is not overrated.

If you look at college basketball as just the tournament, then there's an argument if you look at the totality of results since 2003. If you look at the last four years, every school in the country except those that made the Final Four would kill for our record and results. Getting over the Sweet 16 hump was incredibly important.

Since 2003 we've had: 2 BET titles, including one of the great runs in conference tournament history; 2 outright BE regular season championships including only the 2nd 17-1 season in the history of the BE; 2 30 win season; 3 Sweet 16 appearances and an Elite 8. All but Duke, Florida, UNC, UConn, Kentucky, MSU, UCLA, Ohio State, Butler and Kansas wouldn't want to change their results for ours since 2003. That puts us in the top 15 programs over the last 10 seasons. I don't see how anyone could make a reasonable argument that Boeheim is overrated when using objective criteria.

I'm arguing because I disagree with most of what people put out there. Sorry?

They were BET champs in 05 and 06, but got bounced in the first round. They won 30 games in 2010' but lost in the sweet 16. In fact every year since the title Syracuse has lost to a lower seeded team but one, and in that one year we were blown out of the gym.

You listed ten teams that wouldn't want to be us since 2003. Well if that's the standard then we aren't in the top ten. Which IMO, makes him overrated. NOT A LOT, but still. I love him as our coach, but yeah I think he's a little overrated.

In college basketball success is measured by one thing. I didn't make that rule. One trip past the regional semi in nine tries isn't that great.

 

[NKR1978]

I'm arguing because I disagree with most of what people put out there. Sorry?

They were BET champs in 05 and 06, but got bounced in the first round. They won 30 games in 2010' but lost in the sweet 16. In fact every year since the title Syracuse has lost to a lower seeded team but one, and in that one year we were blown out of the gym.

You listed ten teams that wouldn't want to be us since 2003. Well if that's the standard then we aren't in the top ten. Which IMO, makes him overrated. NOT A LOT, but still. I love him as our coach, but yeah I think he's a little overrated.

In college basketball success is measured by one thing. I didn't make that rule. One trip past the regional semi in nine tries isn't that great.

But you're obviously not trying to flame.

Being the 11th best program in college basketball puts you in the top 3% of all programs. Being the national runner up in lacrosse puts you in the top 4%. The top 3% of anything is pretty damn good.

 

[thenanster]

Igor...errrr I mean Docsu, this thread is laughable. Where are all these "CBB" fans on the Internet? Syracuse.com?

 

[CusefanATL]

In the eyes of casual basketball fans.

never heard that. i have only heard the exact opposite. he is getting better with age.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

There's no guarantee we beat Ohio State with Fab, and theres really no excuse for losing to Butler, AO or not.

The narrative (which I agree with) is that our recruiting has taken off the last ten years. We've had seven players in the McDonalds game since 2003, a couple more that really should've made it. And now you want to argue that he hasn't been getting elite talent?

you mean back to back FF Butler?

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