Is HCIW Hopkins Written In Stone?

[Bayside44]

Ah. Hopkins didn't want any of those jobs. If he did he would have been there.

This is false.

 

[br801]

I'm just wondering if Hop will have JB's ability to turn mediocre/decent teams into good ones. Up until these past 2 years, that was always his specialty.

Funny that some see that in JB while others claim he is a chronic underachiever whose teams never improve in March.

 

[Bayside44]

I forgot Boston College. Why did they remove him from consideration?

Also, what have you seen the last nine games to say yep, that's our guy?

My guess with a lot of these gigs is that since he sorta has the SU job locked up he's free to ask for the moon. And if he doesn't get it no big loss.

A lot different that the 2nd or 3rd assistant looking.

 

[orangefan13]

I say yes its just dumb to say otherwise. Hopkins is going to be more then good.

 

[HOFCeluck]

This is false.

Yeah I was pretty sure Enfield was picked over Hopkins for USC.

 

[orange79]

USC, BC, Oregon State...

Charlotte

 

[81South]

All I want is the AD to do an actual coaching search when it comes time to replace JB. Mike can definitely be in that search but I think it's crazy to just hand the keys of an elite program no questions asked to a guy who went 4-5 in his only head coaching experience.

If we do a legitimate search and the results come up with Coach Hopkins as the best solution then I will support it. Blind allegiance because he is "Boeheim's Guy" is crazy. You know who else was once Boeheim's guy? Bernie Fine.

And for the record, JB still supports Bernie. Bernie got railroaded. Fact is none of us know the truth about Bernie and to throw his name into this discussion is pretty low class.

 

[Flacusian]

Coming in here and talking slackjaw crap about Hop is pretty putrid in my book. You are on the OUTSIDE... looking in with obviously little acumen for discerning all the things which are in play with this team and this coach at this moment in time. You have no idea if Hop was instructed by JB to do things the way he did or whether it was all of his own volition.

Hopkins has bled Orange for the better part of 3 decades and has been responsible for bringing in a large portion of the talent we have had during that time frame. He is loved by the players and is respected by other coaches and the press. Sometimes it would be best to practice some degree of reservation rather than weighing in with everything that happens to find it's way across one's brainpan. Some things are better left unspoken and impugning the ability of a person based on a ridiculously limited sample size would likely fall into that category.

 

[br801]

Coming in here and talking slackjaw crap about Hop is pretty putrid in my book. You are on the OUTSIDE... looking in with obviously little acumen for discerning all the things which are in play with this team and this coach at this moment in time. You have no idea if Hop was instructed by JB to do things the way he did or whether it was all of his own volition.

Hopkins has bled Orange for the better part of 3 decades and has been responsible for bringing in a large portion of the talent we have had during that time frame. He is loved by the players and is respected by other coaches and the press. Sometimes it would be best to practice some degree of reservation rather than weighing in with everything that happens to find it's way across one's brainpan. Some things are better left unspoken and impugning the ability of a person based on a ridiculously limited sample size would likely fall into that category.

Bravo.

 

[Ozcuse]

Coming in here and talking slackjaw crap about Hop is pretty putrid in my book. You are on the OUTSIDE... looking in with obviously little acumen for discerning all the things which are in play with this team and this coach at this moment in time. You have no idea if Hop was instructed by JB to do things the way he did or whether it was all of his own volition.

Hopkins has bled Orange for the better part of 3 decades and has been responsible for bringing in a large portion of the talent we have had during that time frame. He is loved by the players and is respected by other coaches and the press. Sometimes it would be best to practice some degree of reservation rather than weighing in with everything that happens to find it's way across one's brainpan. Some things are better left unspoken and impugning the ability of a person based on a ridiculously limited sample size would likely fall into that category.

As long as threads taking dumps on players are allowed I think it's perfectly fair to question coaches and why we have already anointed Hop the next coach when we've seen the preview of the Mike Hopkins era the last nine games.

 

[SBU72]

Did JB give him marching orders or should he have told Hop to do everything his way? Or did Hop decide on his own how to handle the team?

Just what sort of orders could JB have given Hop. Don't paly ANY m-2-m? DUH. Don't play any of the last 3 guys on the bench more than 5 minutes a game? Only play 6 guys in the 2nd half? Tell Lydon not to shoot if he misses twice? Oh yes, tell G to stop hitting free throws. To me it seems hard for a temporary coach to break away from what the team has worked on for 2 & 1/2 months for 9 games, beginning with what 3 days of practice before the 1st game, then knowing they have to go back to the previous system anyways. I think Hop has stretched things a little. He seemed to have favored Howard over Joseph and even given Chino a few minutes. Why seeing Richardson play up top the Miami game may have been the first time I've seen him there all season.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

All I want is the AD to do an actual coaching search when it comes time to replace JB. Mike can definitely be in that search but I think it's crazy to just hand the keys of an elite program no questions asked to a guy who went 4-5 in his only head coaching experience.

If we do a legitimate search and the results come up with Coach Hopkins as the best solution then I will support it. Blind allegiance because he is "Boeheim's Guy" is crazy. You know who else was once Boeheim's guy? Bernie Fine.

First: Don't be an . Bernie wasn't convicted of anything and had his life destroyed. That's a horrible analogy.

Second: Know what the difference between 4-5 and 5-4 was? One Free Throw! Oh, excuse me, MG hits that if JB was there!? I forgot about your clairvoyance.

This 20-20 hindsight crap, comparing what Mike did vs what JB 'might of done' with a severely flawed team is nothing but an exercise in your self indulgence.

 

[realorange]

If you don't see a difference between the #14 team losing to a well coached (pre-Ryan retirement) Wisconsin team in OT and an embarrassing loss to St. John's that is a tire fire of a program that has lost to St. Thomas Aquinas and Incarnate Word, both by 20+ then I don't know what to tell you.

JB would not have lost to St. John's or Clemson. I strongly believe we would have won the Georgetown game as well with JB in charge.

9-6 vs 12-3 is all the difference in the world.

We would have won against Clemson if the team did what Hop told them at the end of regulation.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

Yeah I was pretty sure Enfield was picked over Hopkins for USC.

He was and that was a mistake by UNC. Mike would of taken that job I bet.

 

[realorange]

He was and that was a mistake by UNC. Mike would of taken that job I bet.

JB even said that USC made a mistake in not hiring Hop. Hop almost assuredly would have taken that hometown job.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

JB even said that USC made a mistake in not hiring Hop. Hop almost assuredly would have taken that hometown job.

Enfield has just had a run with a mid-major. That got him the job. But he ended up all glitz and no substance.

 

[br801]

As long as threads taking dumps on players are allowed I think it's perfectly fair to question coaches and why we have already anointed Hop the next coach when we've seen the preview of the Mike Hopkins era the last nine games.

Flacusian didn't say Hop should be above criticism, he just made a compelling case for why being critical of him at this point is sort of silly.

 

[Ozcuse]

First: Don't be an . . . . . . . . Bernie wasn't convicted of anything and had his life destroyed. That's a horrible analogy.

Second: Know what the difference between 4-5 and 5-4 was? One Free Throw! Oh, excuse me, MG hits that if JB was there!? I forgot about your clairvoyance.

This 20-20 hindsight crap, comparing what Mike did vs what JB 'might of done' with a severely flawed team is nothing but an exercise in your self indulgence.

I should have clarified on Bernie Fine I didn't mean from a character perspective, more from a 2nd in command/coaching tree perspective. I could have made the same argument when Bernie coached in Boeheim's place when he was recovering from prostate cancer and some questioned why he didn't get a HC opportunity elsewhere and if he may be in line for the SU coaching job. Back then we didn't know if Jim would go back in remission or decide there were things more important than basketball. I'm just worried now because Jim's career is almost over and this is plan a, b and c.

That 01-02 team has a lot in common with this one, won early season tourney, good individual talent with fatal flaws, ranked in top 25 early, and a spectacular letdown. Hopefully we don't lose multiple talented players after the season like that one.

 

[We Are Syracuse]

Flacusian didn't say Hop should be above criticism, he just made a compelling case for why being critical of him at this point is sort of silly.

Why's it silly to be critical of him? Just because someone is critical of someone doesn't mean they're bashing or trolling them. People take offense here when someone is critical. These past nine games were very very bad. Not being able to notch a win against SJU, GTown, Miami, Clemson, or Pitt warrants criticism. Especially his coaching last night. Hard not to be critical when the team beat UCONN and A&M right before he became head coach and then he loses to two of the worst high major teams. It's okay to be critical. I'm sure he is even critical of himself after this. Criticism comes with being a head coach.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

I knew the answer to this question I just wanted to see how people approached it. He interviewed for USC (2013), Oregon State (2014), and Charlotte (2010). Didn't get any of them (maybe by choice, maybe not). I find it odd that no major teams on the East Coast where he is supposed to be a super recruiter inquired about him. An unofficial HCIW tag wouldn't stop someone from interviewing him, it didn't stop USC or OrSt.

Maybe he works out, maybe he doesn't. I'm not going to convince you otherwise and you won't convince me.

1 / You have no idea who may have "inquired about him" over the years.
2 / "HCIW tag" would be a pretty significant deterrent. Might be interpreted as a poaching move. Personally, if i were an AD at a school with HC opening, there's very little reason to even consider Hopkins, until the most recent few years, when so much time had passed and it's possible i'd wonder if Hop was getting restless and impatient. But, earlier? No.
3 / Do we know if Hop or his agent initiated those recent interviews? Or, if any of those were negotiating ploys rather than genuine interest? Either way, until the sanctions and JB feeling 'forced out,' who knows how much longer he would have had to wait.

All that aside, you're still misunderstanding my position in all of this. I don't, actually, feel too differently from you. It's just that there is so much to find fault in your 'arguments.' They are logic-deficient. Even when we agree, it's for different 'reasons.'

For the record, and to repeat what i've said in the past:
• I don't like that the administration chose Hopkins without him having any HC experience. We're seeing the issues that accompany that inexperience right now.
• I wish he had gone to a mid-major for a few years and then come back, especially if that was a pre-arranged deal. But, i fully understand that any other team would be hesitant to offer Hop, knowing that he was predestined to leave them, regardless of success there.
• We are between a rock and a hard place, in determining what to do with Hop, so we (SU) chose to lock him in, and hope/expect that he would have enough bench experience in the system and with JB's tutelage that it wouldn't take much for him to acquire the actual gametime/HC experience he might have acquired elsewhere. The jury is still out as to how long it will take for him to get that. But, everyone keeps pointing out that Dajuan Coleman is 'more like a freshman now' — the rationale for his inconsistent and sometimes 'immature' play. Well, that's what Hop is going through now. He's a rookie/freshman coach. DC sitting on the bench and participating in practices for all these years still doesn't give him D1 game experience. Same for Hopkins.
• Even though i wish we had not made the Hopkins commitment seemingly without entertaining other options, i completely understand the rationale. He's likable. He's ours. He's committed. He's invested. He's intelligent. He comes across as very knowledgeable in interviews. He's energetic. He supposedly recruits well, although no one can really know what that means. We get a kid, we don't get a kid. That happens for a lot of different reasons, and i would hope a kid wouldn't choose a school based on the quality of a pitch or the personality of the pitchman. But, whatever. What else can you ask for? Results are not entirely coaching-dependent. Coaching is like driving a Formula 1 car. A decent driver in the best car is going to win. See Jenson Button's championship. See Steve Fisher's NCAA championship. Look at Kentucky right now...

 

[HOFCeluck]

Coming in here and talking slackjaw crap about Hop is pretty putrid in my book. You are on the OUTSIDE... looking in with obviously little acumen for discerning all the things which are in play with this team and this coach at this moment in time. You have no idea if Hop was instructed by JB to do things the way he did or whether it was all of his own volition.

Hopkins has bled Orange for the better part of 3 decades and has been responsible for bringing in a large portion of the talent we have had during that time frame. He is loved by the players and is respected by other coaches and the press. Sometimes it would be best to practice some degree of reservation rather than weighing in with everything that happens to find it's way across one's brainpan. Some things are better left unspoken and impugning the ability of a person based on a ridiculously limited sample size would likely fall into that category.

I'm sorry, but GMAFB. It's a message board. Well find every excuse to murder Trevor Cooney here...but HCIW Mike Hopkins is above reproach?

 

[rrlbees]

I don't see it

Yes, yes he is. And us fans will be glad for it.

 

[Ozcuse]

1 / You have no idea who may have "inquired about him" over the years.
2 / "HCIW tag" would be a pretty significant deterrent. Might be interpreted as a poaching move. Personally, if i were an AD at a school with HC opening, there's very little reason to even consider Hopkins, until the most recent few years, when so much time had passed and it's possible i'd wonder if Hop was getting restless and impatient. But, earlier? No.
3 / Do we know if Hop or his agent initiated those recent interviews? Or, if any of those were negotiating ploys rather than genuine interest? Either way, until the sanctions and JB feeling 'forced out,' who knows how much longer he would have had to wait.

All that aside, you're still misunderstanding my position in all of this. I don't, actually, feel too differently from you. It's just that there is so much to find fault in your 'arguments.' They are logic-deficient. Even when we agree, it's for different 'reasons.'

For the record, and to repeat what i've said in the past:
• I don't like that the administration chose Hopkins without him having any HC experience. We're seeing the issues that accompany that inexperience right now.
• I wish he had gone to a mid-major for a few years and then come back, especially if that was a pre-arranged deal. But, i fully understand that any other team would be hesitant to offer Hop, knowing that he was predestined to leave them, regardless of success there.
• We are between a rock and a hard place, in determining what to do with Hop, so we (SU) chose to lock him in, and hope/expect that he would have enough bench experience in the system and with JB's tutelage that it wouldn't take much for him to acquire the actual gametime/HC experience he might have acquired elsewhere. The jury is still out as to how long it will take for him to get that. But, everyone keeps pointing out that Dajuan Coleman is 'more like a freshman now' — the rationale for his inconsistent and sometimes 'immature' play. Well, that's what Hop is going through now. He's a rookie/freshman coach. DC sitting on the bench and participating in practices for all these years still doesn't give him D1 game experience. Same for Hopkins.
• Even though i wish we had not made the Hopkins commitment seemingly without entertaining other options, i completely understand the rationale. He's likable. He's ours. He's committed. He's invested. He's intelligent. He comes across as very knowledgeable in interviews. He's energetic. He supposedly recruits well, although no one can really know what that means. We get a kid, we don't get a kid. That happens for a lot of different reasons, and i would hope a kid wouldn't choose a school based on the quality of a pitch or the personality of the pitchman. But, whatever. What else can you ask for? Results are not entirely coaching-dependent. Coaching is like driving a Formula 1 car. A decent driver in the best car is going to win. See Jenson Button's championship. See Steve Fisher's NCAA championship. Look at Kentucky right now...

You make good points. We have had JB so long and my/SU fans in general expectations have become calibrated to expect consistent greatness year in and year out. That's why we break attendance records and represent so well at away venues. After watching the last nine games I am concerned that our expectations post JB may need to become recalibrated for the short term and possibly for the long term. I think Hopkins is a good recruiter (however how hard is it to recruit to Syracuse?) but his x's & o's philosophy and in-game coaching skills are at best still up in the air and at worst a large concern.

I'm not saying I am infallible in my argument and Mike Hopkins might be a good coach but he is no James Arthur Boeheim and that's scary as hell. Cuse fans have been spoiled by 40 years of greatness and we're staring at a transition that very few programs have to make. Only Duke, North Carolina and maybe Indiana could probably relate.

What's the silver lining to the Mike Hopkins experiment? Well I hope JB took good notes and has some solid pointers for Mike.

 

[Kowbelkat]

JB has underachieved given some of the talent that he has had, how

Flacusian didn't say Hop should be above criticism, he just made a compelling case for why being critical of him at this point is sort of silly.

if your boss it away for 29% of the year and you are asked to step up and don't impress anyone , are you above reproach ,probably not

 

[br801]

if your boss it away for 29% of the year and you are asked to step up and don't impress anyone , are you above reproach ,probably not

A lot of people on this board seem to struggle with reading comprehension.