Is HCIW Hopkins Written In Stone?

[djcon57]

I don't get your 'logic.'
• An athlete comes to SU, at some stage of development.
• He plays at SU, at various stages of development.
• He leaves, and hopefully plays in the NBA, having 1) begun at SU at a certain level; and/or 2) been developed at SU.

So, if we're not producing NBA standouts, as you seem to acknowledge, then we're not bringing in players with the talent level high enough to succeed in the NBA, and/or we're not developing them well-enough while they're at SU.*

Are you:
• saying we don't recruit better than other schools that have produced more/better NBA players?
• denying that SU has not developed players well?


* Another incalculable option is that they somehow go 'off the rails' after they've left us, and their failures have nothing to do with anything experienced before the NBA. Who, other than Fab Melo, might qualify for that classification?

I'm saying JB's W/L record is in line with the level of recruiting we bring in.

 

[HOFCeluck]

FWIW, Kentucky, Kansas, Unc, Duke, Florida, Zona, and UCLA are the only programs with more players in the NBA.

 

[djcon57]

FWIW, Kentucky, Kansas, Unc, Duke, Florida, Zona, and UCLA are the only programs with more players in the NBA.

Right...
So other than Michigan State and Louisville (who have coaches that are better than JB, imo)...who are we leaving out that has had a better 10 years than we have had.

UConn has two great "magical" tourneys but pretty shitty seasons even during those runs
Maybe Wisconsin?

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

FWIW, Kentucky, Kansas, Unc, Duke, Florida, Zona, and UCLA are the only programs with more players in the NBA.

Uconn too.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Uconn too.

Nope.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Nope.

Are you saying currently, over the last 20 years or forever?

Right now, UConn has more players in the NBA than we do. They have at least 8. And Ray Allen just retired. How many do we have? And let's not include Rak or McCullough since neither has played a game in the NBA. Tyler Ennis doesn't play at all either.

Over the last 20 years UConn has had far more. UConn has had 13 players taken in the lottery. How about us?

 

[Ghost]

Agree to disagree. I think the main thing that Hop was able to do was to finally get Roc's attitude about his ability to the level it needed to be. It was finally in his senior year that Roc showed consistency in his take charge abilities on the court.

You can argue whether it was Hop or JB that couldn't light the fire before then.

You can't really "take charge" if the offense never lets you touch the ball. He was tremendously underutilized for three years.

 

[Jake]

Rak was a McD kid out of high school and still took 3 years to blossom in his 4th. That's not evidence, either way, of Hopkins' prowess coaching bigs. What percentage of McD kids stay all four years? Then get drafted late. Then don't play for their NBA teams... Don't misunderstand. Rak was amazing for us as a senior. Love him. On and off the court. But his is not a Hopkins 'success story.' It's a Rak story.

Gotta give credit to both. Rak worked hard, Hop showed him how.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

You can't really "take charge" if the offense never lets you touch the ball. He was tremendously underutilized for three years.

He wasn't very good offensively for 3 years. They weren't going to make him a focal part of the offensive when he couldn't score.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Are you saying currently, over the last 20 years or forever?

Right now, UConn has more players in the NBA than we do. They have at least 8. And Ray Allen just retired. How many do we have? And let's not include Rak or McCullough since neither has played a game in the NBA. Tyler Ennis doesn't play at all either.

Over the last 20 years UConn has had far more. UConn has had 13 players taken in the lottery. How about us?

Current NBA players.

Melo
Wes
Waiters
MCW
Grant
Ennis
Rak
Cmac

Vs

Drummond
Walker
Napier
Lamb
Butler
Gay
Villanueva

Currently, Uconn has 7, we have 8.

And of course Rak and Cmac count. They're on NBA rosters...just like Allen doesn't count for Uconn because he's a free agent.

If your on a NBA roster, you're an NBA player.

 

[Kowbelkat]

At this level it all boils down to titles

 

[HOFCeluck]

At this level it all boils down to titles

That's a club consisting of a total of ten active coaches...a club JB is part of. Winning a title is hard.

 

[Kowbelkat]

It is but I think we mostly fall short of expectations

 

[Kowbelkat]

The only team that really over achieved was the John Wallace finals team other than that we seem to fall short

 

[br801]

The only team that really over achieved was the John Wallace finals team other than that we seem to fall short

Your scorecard for JB:
Overachieved once
Met expectations once (2002-03)
Underachieved 38 times

Nice.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Somehow over the years a narrative has evolved that Carmelo made winning a national title fait accompli.

 

[Kowbelkat]

The last time we beat a team that was better than we were was L'ville on the road when they were #1, since then no shockers even though teams have shocked us

 

[HOFCeluck]

The last time we beat a team that was better than we were was L'ville on the road when they were #1, since then no shockers even though teams have shocked us

Joined: August 30, 2015

 

[victor]

The only team that really over achieved was the John Wallace finals team other than that we seem to fall short

The 2012 team with MCW certainly overachieved. Terrible shooting team which got to the final four on hustle and a great zone defense.Could have been in the title game if not for a bad call against Triche. The 1987 team was certainly a surprise that and it had to beat a great Carolina team to get to the final four.

Problem we have right now is that other teams have simply better players. We just need to upgrade our recruiting and we will be ok.

 

[Kowbelkat]

Joined: August 30, 2015

So what's that supposed to mean, did you ever go to a game at Manley, did you watch Rosie school Joe B Carroll at Purdue ,if you haven't then don't speak to what you no nothing about

 

[HOFCeluck]

So what's that supposed to mean, did you ever go to a game at Manley, did you watch Rosie school Joe B Carroll at Purdue ,if you haven't then don't speak to what you no nothing about

Old people can have agendas too.

 

[Cusefan0307]

The last time we beat a team that was better than we were was L'ville on the road when they were #1, since then no shockers even though teams have shocked us

Notre Dame last year.

 

[Kowbelkat]

My only agenda is to see this team get better and JB has been stuck in a rut for years. We used to average in the 90's run up and down the court and play m2m. If you are still wet behind the ears and never saw us play exciting basketball then go find some old footage of Santifer, Red, Orr and Bouie etc... And really be impressed if you think what we do now is great you would be blown away

 

[HOFCeluck]

My only agenda is to see this team get better and JB has been stuck in a rut for years. We used to average in the 90's run up and down the court and play m2m. If you are still wet behind the ears and never saw us play exciting basketball then go find some old footage of Santifer, Red, Orr and Bouie etc... And really be impressed if you think what we do now is great you would be blown away

Sure thing bro.

Btw in addition to Notre dame we also beat Lousiville last year.

Got any more piss poor takes?

 

[Kowbelkat]

Notre Dame last year.

ND was good last year? Wow your standards are really low now I understand