Its apparent...

[Ish88888]

The jimmy zone no longer works in today's game. These kids come up in AAU shooting 25 footers or driving and dunking. The mid range game in college hoops is gone. Kids are simply shooting over our merry go round of rotation under the 3 point line. Time to play some man. Secondly, we aren't recruiting well enough. Maybe kids dont want to stand on D with their hands up or the dome has lost its luster , but jimmy isn't coming close to getting big talent. Watching the UCLA/ZONA game today was eye opening. Huge, long athletes at guard and athletic 7 footers. Its a different game.

 

[Briancuse]

The zone still works, not this years zone, but there is a reason we went to the Final Four last year.

 

[Coach Orange]

The zone still works, not this years zone, but there is a reason we went to the Final Four last year.

To be fair, we went to the Final Four last year because we didn't have to play Michigan State, Gonzaga and Virginia both panicked against the press down the stretch, and Richardson used NBA-level iso moves to carry us.

We were losing with under seven minutes left to both Gonzaga and Virginia playing exclusively zone. :noidea:

 

[Briancuse]

To be fair, we went to the Final Four last year because we didn't have to play Michigan State, Gonzaga and Virginia both panicked against the press down the stretch, and Richardson used NBA-level iso moves to carry us.

We were losing with under seven minutes left to both Gonzaga and Virginia playing exclusively zone. :noidea:

Not playing Msu was a big factor,but the zone helped, when you aren't used to seeing a zone and have little time to prepare for it, its a major factor.

 

[Coach Orange]

Not playing Msu was a big factor,but the zone helped, when you aren't used to seeing a zone and have little time to prepare for it, its a major factor.

Lots of teams play some sort of zone now at least part of a game. It's not a novelty anymore.

Please understand that I'm not necessarily anti-zone. I just think that there are myths connected to and spread about it that actually have little truth in the current game.

 

[tbonezone]

we were the 1st 10 seed EVER to make a final four. you say good team. i say fluke.

 

[FrancoPizza]

The zone still works, not this years zone, but there is a reason we went to the Final Four last year.

Yes its called trunk monkey and some fortunate matchups. Not sure what point you're trying to make.

 

[retro44]

Problem is Boeheim by design has left himself with no options when the zone isn't working which is happening a lot this year. He does not want to play m2m at all these days. How does he prepare his team to play a team in practice that plays M2M 100% of the time should be the questions reporters should be asking him?

 

[SoBeCuse]

Lots of teams play some sort of zone now at least part of a game. It's not a novelty anymore.

Please understand that I'm not necessarily anti-zone. I just think that there are myths connected to and spread about it that actually have little truth in the current game.

Baylor has been super solid the past five years or so playing zone. They sure play with aggressiveness and toughness most of the time.

 

[jdubs30]

To be fair, we went to the Final Four last year because we didn't have to play Michigan State, Gonzaga and Virginia both panicked against the press down the stretch, and Richardson used NBA-level iso moves to carry us.

We were losing with under seven minutes left to both Gonzaga and Virginia playing exclusively zone. :noidea:

And our zone from 2009 - 2014 was an elite defense and we only made 1 final four. the tournament is finicky

 

[jdubs30]

To be fair, we went to the Final Four last year because we didn't have to play Michigan State, Gonzaga and Virginia both panicked against the press down the stretch, and Richardson used NBA-level iso moves to carry us.

We were losing with under seven minutes left to both Gonzaga and Virginia playing exclusively zone. :noidea:

And our zone from 2009 - 2014 was an elite defense and we only made 1 final four. the tournament is finicky

 

[Brooky03]

When a statistician makes a point to say a certain school, alone, has a defense that consistently defends the 3 better than any other defense, you know it's not the defense that's broken. It's the personnel.

 

[two3zone]

And our zone from 2009 - 2014 was an elite defense and we only made 1 final four. the tournament is finicky

But I heard last years team was better than the AO and Fab teams? Hmmmmmmm

 

[Coach Orange]

When a statistician makes a point to say a certain school, alone, has a defense that consistently defends the 3 better than any other defense, you know it's not the defense that's broken. It's the personnel.

I wonder if we've become so obsessed with stopping the three that it makes it easier for teams to score two-pointers. We've had trouble defending teams that can dribble-drive the gaps for several years. A root cause of this is how high our forwards have to play to take away the three, not to mention our propensity to frantically close-out on three-point shooters without staying on our feet. Ball fakes allow for easy penetration when defenders fly by. Personnel changes, but some of these issues remain constant. :noidea:

 

[iommi]

I wonder if we've become so obsessed with stopping the three that it makes it easier for teams to score two-pointers. We've had trouble defending teams that can dribble-drive the gaps for several years. A root cause of this is how high our forwards have to play to take away the three, not to mention our propensity to frantically close-out on three-point shooters without staying on our feet. Ball fakes allow for easy penetration when defenders fly by. Personnel changes, but some of these issues remain constant. :noidea:

Yeah, our zone is always close to a 4-1 at this point, leaving us exposed inside, in the short corners and often in the corners of the baseline. There is no zone integrity. A good passing team or a team with good dribble penetration carves us up. ND has both. Beachem dropped 30 on our heads, but how about Farrell's 15 point and 9 assists.

 

[Jack Hall]

To be fair, we went to the Final Four last year because we didn't have to play Michigan State, Gonzaga and Virginia both panicked against the press down the stretch, and Richardson used NBA-level iso moves to carry us.

We were losing with under seven minutes left to both Gonzaga and Virginia playing exclusively zone. :noidea:

Imo the biggest reason we went to FF is because we only gave up about 56 pts/game in those 4 games. Just like 2013 it was mostly defense...zone defense

 

[Bayside44]

Tell the next guy...

 

[Jack Hall]

Yeah, our zone is always close to a 4-1 at this point, leaving us exposed inside, in the short corners and often in the corners of the baseline. There is no zone integrity. A good passing team or a team with good dribble penetration carves us up. ND has both. Beachem dropped 30 on our heads, but how about Farrell's 15 point and 9 assists.

Zone spacing and rotations this year some of worst ive ever seen under JB , outside of miami and pitt games

 

[dasher]

To be fair, we went to the Final Four last year because we didn't have to play Michigan State, Gonzaga and Virginia both panicked against the press down the stretch, and Richardson used NBA-level iso moves to carry us.

We were losing with under seven minutes left to both Gonzaga and Virginia playing exclusively zone. :noidea:

Yes. Michigan st would 100% have beaten us even though Izzo is I think 1-4 against Jb and the zone lifetime. . MSU got beat by a team we beat by 25. Come up with a different excuse why we got to the final four.

 

[dasher]

The jimmy zone no longer works in today's game. These kids come up in AAU shooting 25 footers or driving and dunking. The mid range game in college hoops is gone. Kids are simply shooting over our merry go round of rotation under the 3 point line. Time to play some man. Secondly, we aren't recruiting well enough. Maybe kids dont want to stand on D with their hands up or the dome has lost its luster , but jimmy isn't coming close to getting big talent. Watching the UCLA/ZONA game today was eye opening. Huge, long athletes at guard and athletic 7 footers. Its a different game.

My birthday is tomorrow and I am getting old but haven't we gone to two final fours in the last 4 years? And an elite 8 the year before that? And two one seeds in the past 7 years? When we have the right players, the zone works fine. We don't have the right players for any defense. Or any offense fort that matter. No pt guard.

 

[dasher]

Lots of teams play some sort of zone now at least part of a game. It's not a novelty anymore.

Please understand that I'm not necessarily anti-zone. I just think that there are myths connected to and spread about it that actually have little truth in the current game.

Please understand that there are no facts to back up your statement. And I wish we played more like the Ville than the way we play now. But the zone works just fine today if you have the right players. The last 7 years have showed that.

 

[Brooky03]

I wonder if we've become so obsessed with stopping the three that it makes it easier for teams to score two-pointers. We've had trouble defending teams that can dribble-drive the gaps for several years. A root cause of this is how high our forwards have to play to take away the three, not to mention our propensity to frantically close-out on three-point shooters without staying on our feet. Ball fakes allow for easy penetration when defenders fly by. Personnel changes, but some of these issues remain constant. :noidea:

A shot blocker/changer at Center alleviates a lot of those problems, and we don't have one. The closest this team can get is to put Lydon there. The problem with that is we need two forwards who are light on their feet and able to rotate to the rim and challenge shots when the Center has to vacate. Roberson can do that, TT and White cannot. We basically have zero weakside defense unless Lydon and Roberson are the Forwards, which means we have zero interior defense (Center).

 

[Shark58]

here's another contributing truth. the ACC now knows our zone. its helpful in the tourney because most teams we meet haven't seen us. it was a weapon the first few years of league play because most teams had no experience going up against it. now, every team has personal experience.

that said, if we had better players playing it better, we would be better

 

[Cusefannotindc]

The defensive ranking in KenPom ratings has been remarkably consistent in the 7 previous seasons. People didn't suddenly figure out the zone, it is personnel.
2017 - 99th
2016 - 17th
2015 - 19th
2014 - 13th
2013 - 7th
2012 - 16th
2011 - 14th
2010 - 15th

 

[orangehomer]

My birthday is tomorrow and I am getting old but haven't we gone to two final fours in the last 4 years? And an elite 8 the year before that? And two one seeds in the past 7 years? When we have the right players, the zone works fine. We don't have the right players for any defense. Or any offense fort that matter. No pt guard.

if you cant tell that the program is in trouble than there is nothing anyone is going to say to you