JJ Starling

[Fly Rodder]

Unfortunately they’re trained to initiate the contact in the hopes of getting fouled. It’s the AAU mantra. It’s also bad basketball.

There was one play last night where Judah was nearly to the rim and in midair he threw the ball to Maliq who was absolutely not expecting it and it went out of bounds off his hands - which is saying something because his hands are some of the best I've seen in a long time. He doesn't flub many.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

In tight passing seems to be a lost art . Defenders are so ballcentric they lose sight of their man and easy layups / short oops are there for the taking .

International players seem to be better at it., jokic and Sengun are masters… but they weren’t raised on the AAU system

 

[UpstateSM]

Try the red pill.

Does the red one make your dkkkk not work?

 

[althea]

Does the red one make your dkkkk not work?

No, quite the opposite actually. It makes it work spectacularly.

 

[pokercuse08]

100% agree. I was just saying some other things I see and what can help. His jump shot is a mess and very clearly not like it was in high school. I’m sure it has to do with his shoulder. There’s no way a coach at ND or Cuse taught him a release like that. His shoulder is bothering him and making him shoot like that

I think the question is... Is his shoulder currently bothering him and making him shoot like that, or did he pick up that form while his shoulder was bothering him and now he's gotta break bad habits?

Hopefully it's the second one. If so, hopefully Gerry is working extremely closely with him on this, and hopefully they understand the value in trying to create pressure while he's practicing it to simulate the pressure in a game - especially if they think his form looks better in practice and warmups than during the game.

My two other thoughts - first that it's possible this is affecting him in other ways too, if he formed some bad habits and has the ball farther away from his body when moving from a triple threat stance to taking the ball over his head to throw an overhead pass, that's going to cause more turnovers because he's not protecting it as well.

Lastly, he may need to drill just going from triple threat to cocked and keeping the ball in tight if it's that initial movement that's off. Something like executing that move 10 times then taking one jumper putting it all together, rinse and repeat. He can get a lot more reps of the first movement in a lot less time.

I'm far from an expert on the biomechanics of basketball, but what I see when looking at clips of his jumper in high school and now, it appears that his timing at the top is different since it's taking him longer to get the ball to the top. Throwing this timing off is probably what is killing his jumper, and if he can get that first part back to the way it was, he might find things turning around rapidly for him.

 

[AlaskaSU]

You see this in baseball sometimes, when a ballplayer/pitcher injures their shoulder (almost always a longer rehab that the elbow) that they sometimes have to re-learn how to throw the baseball. As if the muscle memory is gone or has to be re-wired (not literally). The shoulder compartment is extremely complex, and Starling is clearly working through something. He is obviously going to be frustrated, but honestly, I cannot think of a better person to work through it with him than Gerry.

I hope Starling can get it back and I think he will, but it may not be this season.
His HS jumper was damn smooth.

What exactly was his injury? If it was a major rotator cuff tear it will not heal by itself. On the other hand there is risk in the surgery. Holes are drilled into the bone and the torn tendons are sewn back in place. Best not to delay the surgery. Not everyone recovers fully and full strength will not return. If the tendon is torn off it will not heal.
I had the surgery and I have full motion but the doctor said never lift weights again. I dropped down to 25lb dumbbell presses without problem but no more serious weight lifting.
If JJ's problem was just form, it would have been fixed by now.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

That person would be fun to play with…

 

[grepal]

He was a McDonalds All American that was thought of as a potential lottery pick and now his game is a mess.

Yeah, but with that pedigree I think he has a great chance of fixing whatever is not going right.

 

[mark79]

Everything about his shot looks unnatural. I genuinely cannot imagine the mental toll it is taking on him. From a potential lottery pick to being worried about shooting open threes. I would be a frustrated mess.

Kind like golf when you have shanks. Makes you never want to play again.

 

[crv1728]

why was there no attempt to fix it over the spring and summer?

That’s a big assumption to think there wasn’t any attempt. I’ll go with the injury theory over this. Don’t you think the coaches tried to help him smooth out his shot?

 

[DoctorBombay]

The play where starling drove into the defender and turned it over vs passing to a wide open Mintz was my personal favorite. He also had a number of turnovers today… hopefully just an off game. But yeah it’s getting late early with him.

We're less than 8 games into a 30+ game season.

 

[OmahaCuse]

I get giving Starling some grief after that performance yesterday, but overall I would not describe his game as selfish, despite maybe some selfish moments yesterday. He has done a good job of looking to pass this season, overall better than Judah. Averaging a solid amount of assists on the season. He had an extremely nice feed to McCloud who somehow managed to miss a dunk. Also for a guy his size he is very active on the boards. 2nd most per game on the team behind Taylor. Not throwing in the towel with him just yet but wish we had Judah alongside someone else like Taylor or Cuffe more often. The shot is the problem. I don't think we need to worry about selfish play.

Maybe selfish is the wrong word, but when he decides to drive he generally has his head down and goes hard to the basket. He reminds me a bit of Dion Waiters without a shot. not throwing the towel either he just seems more like a 2 without a shot versus a passing PG,…

 

[CLMintz]

Yeah, something doesn't add up there. I hope he can get it fixed/rehabbed/healed/etc. It would suck for him to have such potential be taken away.

IMO we should start Judah/Taylor/Bell/Maliq/Naheem. That gives us more interior defense which is often a huge problem for us with Taylor getting pushed around by bigger forwards in the post.

Starling can be the first player off the bench for either Judah, Taylor or Bell to sub out. JJ is still a very good player so far this year, 3rd leading scorer, 2nd rebounds, 2nd assists.

But yeah, you simply can't have a starting shooting guard who is shooting 5.6% from deep. I wish that was a typo.

That lineup would leave Judah as the only ball handler. If teams double up on Judah that would be a problem. Dribbling is not Taylor and Bell’s strength. They are shooters.

 

[Scooch]

Something is very off with him. Again I suspect lingering shoulder issues but here was his jumpshot in HS. Not even close to todays

JJ Jumper

Is it me or is his shot different from those HS clips to how he was shooting at ND, even very early in the season?


I am NOT an expert by any means. But in the clips of him at ND vs. Radford (first game of their season) he appears to be pushing the ball more than those HS clips where it looks like more of a pure release.

Someone is free to tell me I'm wrong and an idiot. Did he get hurt before he started playing for ND?

 

[Cusefan0307]

Is it me or is his shot different from those HS clips to how he was shooting at ND, even very early in the season?


I am NOT an expert by any means. But in the clips of him at ND vs. Radford (first game of their season) he appears to be pushing the ball more than those HS clips where it looks like more of a pure release.

Someone is free to tell me I'm wrong and an idiot. Did he get hurt before he started playing for ND?

Not an idiot. Looks like maybe it was injured before the season and it’s got worse as time has gone on.

 

[OmahaCuse]

Is it me or is his shot different from those HS clips to how he was shooting at ND, even very early in the season?


I am NOT an expert by any means. But in the clips of him at ND vs. Radford (first game of their season) he appears to be pushing the ball more than those HS clips where it looks like more of a pure release.

Someone is free to tell me I'm wrong and an idiot. Did he get hurt before he started playing for ND?

Even in this video he starts his jumper with the ball below his waste and then extends the left arm out. Would think they work with him to keep the ball higher and closer to the body. We have plenty of coaches who know proper technique or at least to help. The question is like in baseball or golf, when do you break it down completely although he is shooting 6% from 3, and missing everything in mid-range so may not hurt anyway

 

[cusefan88]

I feel like after the season it will come out that needs surgery or something.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Even in this video he starts his jumper with the ball below his waste and then extends the left arm out. Would think they work with him to keep the ball higher and closer to the body. We have plenty of coaches who know proper technique or at least to help. The question is like in baseball or golf when do you break it down although he is shooting 6% from 3 and missing everything in mid-range so may not hurt anyway

It's hard to pull quality screen grabs from Youtube, but this looks like pretty good form to me:

 

[OmahaCuse]

It's hard to pull quality screen grabs from Youtube, but this looks like pretty good form to me:

View attachment 234128

Better here, but a lot of movement bringing the ball up, then jumping high off the ground to get to this point. I like the guys who almost have a set shot, and don't have a big dip, or load up. He seems has better form on his free throws although historically or at least last year struggled at the line?

 

[AlaskaSU]

That lineup would leave Judah as the only ball handler. If teams double up on Judah that would be a problem. Dribbling is not Taylor and Bell’s strength. They are shooters.

Naheem at 20 minutes is a stretch.

 

[CardiacCuse]

I haven’t thought once he looks hurt or ailing. If he is he shouldn’t be leading the team in minutes.

he still one of the best players on the team...his 65% of what he used to be is still good enough to play...but its going to get tougher later in the season if he cant get back on track

Starling calls SU basketball homecoming a no-brainer: ‘I’m just ready to perform’

Starling transferred from Notre Dame to Syracuse, where he was once a Baldwinsville High School star.

www.syracuse.com

i dont have access to this article but I think it is the one that explains things...

imo we arent seeing the "real" JJ at all thus far in Orange...

 

[two3zone]

That lineup would leave Judah as the only ball handler. If teams double up on Judah that would be a problem. Dribbling is not Taylor and Bell’s strength. They are shooters.

If teams double up on Judah that means someone is open and some simple ball movement should hit an open Taylor/Bell for an open shot or Brown/McLeod for an open layup.

I wouldn’t count on anyone on the floor dribbling but Judah is talented enough to use those doubles as an advantage if not with an assist then at the very least a hockey assist.

 

[grepal]

JJ cant be a 2 guard, we need a knock down scorer.

We recruited one of the best in Moore. Also Taylor can move to 2 guard with Freeman as a real 4

 

[mark79]

he still one of the best players on the team...his 65% of what he used to be is still good enough to play...but its going to get tougher later in the season if he cant get back on track

Starling calls SU basketball homecoming a no-brainer: ‘I’m just ready to perform’

Starling transferred from Notre Dame to Syracuse, where he was once a Baldwinsville High School star.

www.syracuse.com

i dont have access to this article but I think it is the one that explains things...

imo we arent seeing the "real" JJ at all thus far in Orange...

Like I posted earlier, I think we did see the real JJ in our very first game when Judah stayed out. I think he is playing with some hesitation as this is Judah’s team and he finding it hard when he doesn’t have the ball in his hands. And it’s made worse with his shooting struggles.

When Judah is gone next year, I think we will see a different story. But I hope he can figure it out before then. He is a fabulous player but he’s just struggling right now. The “want to” and skills are there.

 

[CardiacCuse]

Like I posted earlier, I think we did see the real JJ in our very first game when Judah stayed out. I think he is playing with some hesitation as this is Judah’s team and he finding it hard when he doesn’t have the ball in his hands. And it’s made worse with his shooting struggles.

When Judah is gone next year, I think we will see a different story. But I hope he can figure it out before then. He is a fabulous player but he’s just struggling right now. The “want to” and skills are there.

yeah I mean this current version of Starling cant shoot and that is the real crux of the matter...he can do PG things but there's only 1 PG on the floor at any given time. and that's gonna be Judah on this team.

I dont think this version of JJ is the "real" JJ...at least not the one that was a 5star in HS. not the same player. the "real" JJ is a great shooter.


there are not really any 2 guards around that can't shoot. think about it.

he still offers a lot...i.e. rebounding, defense etc...but theres a low ceiling on a PG that cant shoot, let alone a SG that can't.

JJ is still one of the best athletes on the team and needs to play...but it creates some problems for the team i.e. reaching its potential if he cant get back to what he showed he can be.