Joe

[MikeSU02]

This year / career:

FG%: 35% / 36.5%
2PT FG%: 33% / 38%
3PT FG%: 36% / 36%

This year, he’s a bit better than 1:1 assist to TO ratio, basically 16ppg on 15 shots a game, his usage is over 28% (second on the team to Mintz) and his advanced metrics are bad. Below 50% for TS% and below 45% eFG%.

His defense is atrocious and the uptick in his efficiency last year is looking like it was due to not being related to JB versus having a heightened awareness of his abilities.

He is this year’s embodiment of the high use, but inefficient player that JB continues to empower.

Not great.

 

[MikeSU02]

Last night was the first time I've heard a multiple people heckling Joe in the Dome. Much like Trevor Cooney, though, I feel bad for the kid. JB is the one putting him in this position by steadfastly sticking with him, no matter how poorly he happens to be playing on a given night. JB's excuse that a shooter can get hot at any moment is just not cutting it. He plays favorites even when it hurts the team.

Ya. That’s awful. He’s not the one setting the lineup.

 

[MSOrange]

And it has been for 3 years now.

unfortunately, some took suggestions that Joe wasn’t an ACC caliber player personally and suggested it was “hate”.

it wasn’t. He’s just not a consistent starter at a high d1 level.

Agree. As much as I realize it won't happen, I'd rather play for the future and have Joe be a role player. Yeah I know....

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

The second he started bringing the ball up it got scary and mentioned before the turnovers in the game thread. Then he promptly made a mess of two fast breaks and didn’t come and get the ball before finally getting trapped and throwing it away for a layup on the other end with a minute to play.

Brutal. He should not be handling the ball. If mintz is thrown out, foul trouble, whatever. Play Symir or even Copeland. We’ve seen enough

Kid seems to have totally lost confidence, since the first half of Richmond. It seems to have permeated his whole game.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Last night was the first time I've heard a multiple people heckling Joe in the Dome. Much like Trevor Cooney, though, I feel bad for the kid. JB is the one putting him in this position by steadfastly sticking with him, no matter how poorly he happens to be playing on a given night. JB's excuse that a shooter can get hot at any moment is just not cutting it. He plays favorites even when it hurts the team.

If you listened to JB's press conference last night, he said that Bryant was so worried about stopping both Joe and Jesse that it allowed Justin and Chris to get open looks.

Even if Joe is in the middle of the worst shooting drought in years, he still has value because the other team still has to guard him.

If you bench Joe, and Symir and Judah aren't outside shooters, it just clogs things up for Jesse and everyone else.

 

[Vorony]

Ya. That’s awful. He’s not the one setting the lineup.

But he is the one taking terrible off balance shots early in the shot clock, turning the ball over in crucial situations, and doing nothing on defense. I don’t condone the heckling, but I also can’t say I’m surprised at it either.

 

[MikeSU02]

But he is the one taking terrible off balance shots early in the shot clock, and turning the ball over in crucial situations. I don’t condone the heckling, but I also can’t say I’m surprised at it either.

Oh I agree. I would never do it and think it’s abhorrent.

But if you have thousands of people in one spot, there will at least be a few vocal ones that are being jerks.

Just saying, JB runs the show.

 

[CuseCPT]

Oh I agree. I would never do it and think it’s abhorrent.

But if you have thousands of people in one spot, there will at least be a few vocal ones that are being jerks.

Just saying, JB runs the show.

Exactly. JG3 is going to JG3, but he should have a coach that is not just leaving him out in the deep end drowning when he is off.

 

[AZOrange]

If you listened to JB's press conference last night, he said that Bryant was so worried about stopping both Joe and Jesse that it allowed Justin and Chris to get open looks.

Even if Joe is in the middle of the worst shooting drought in years, he still has value because the other team still has to guard him.

If you bench Joe, and Symir and Judah aren't outside shooters, it just clogs things up for Jesse and everyone else.

His coach keeps putting him in bad spots. Like bringing the ball up against pressure. It was very clear JT and CB could handle the ball against their defenders. You have to design plays that do that. You have to call TO when Joe inevitably gets trapped. JB ain’t doing him any favors

 

[OrangeDW]

The only thing that matters is that we can’t have half the freshmen transferring because they don’t play.

Mintz, Taylor, Bell, and Brown should start and Copeland should be first guard off the bench. Total youth movement other than Jesse.

Why not? What are we clinging to? Girard and Torrence aren’t doing anything and this team is going nowhere as is. Go youth movement. It will pay off.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

If you listened to JB's press conference last night, he said that Bryant was so worried about stopping both Joe and Jesse that it allowed Justin and Chris to get open looks.

Even if Joe is in the middle of the worst shooting drought in years, he still has value because the other team still has to guard him.

If you bench Joe, and Symir and Judah aren't outside shooters, it just clogs things up for Jesse and everyone else.

Yeah, I'm not sure I buy that.

 

[OrangeDW]

Hot take: Taylor and Bell are more dangerous shooters than Joe because they can actually get a decent shot off when guarded.

Bell has hit some contested off the dribble jumpers that Joe wouldn’t even be able to cleanly get off.

6’7 vs. 5’10 matters.

Unless we want to keep relying on the 26 footer and think that’s “streTcHing TEH deFeNsE” because we saw Steph Curry do it and make it.

 

[whobut03]

Here’s a direct quote right from the horses mouth.

“I’m going to get mine this year. Finally. Coach said I have a green light”

So there’s that.

 

[OrangeDW]

Here’s a direct quote right from the horses mouth.

“I’m going to get mine this year. Finally. Coach said I have a green light”

So there’s that.

“Finally”???????

That’s his take??!!! SMH. No wonder we lose all the time.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

His coach keeps putting him in bad spots. Like bringing the ball up against pressure. It was very clear JT and CB could handle the ball against their defenders. You have to design plays that do that. You have to call TO when Joe inevitably gets trapped. JB ain’t doing him any favors

I recall (and I get we don’t have that guy, other than maybe an out of position Copeland) JB having his forwards bring the ball up against pressure (DC, Billy, Blackwell, Burgan, etc. ). Now he seems wedded to position titles.

 

[007]

I recall (and I get we don’t have that guy, other than maybe an out of position Copeland) JB having his forwards bring the ball up against pressure (DC, Billy, Blackwell, Burgan, etc. ). Now he seems wedded to position titles.

Yeah, JB has consistently used a point forward type of player to help handle full court man pressure - when he had that type of player. With a guard like Mintz, you don't really have to worry much about full court man pressure. It might even be an advantage when teams attempt that, once Mintz gains more experience and control.

Even with Mintz, you have to be able to inbound the ball. We haven't seen that problem YET. But we will once ACC teams scout us and realize if you face guard Mintz you can force someone much less capable to face the pressure. That will happen and it will be a problem.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

I feel kind of bad for Joe he’s playing next to a very streaky freshman that moron fans have told he’s a 1 and done yet he’s the guy defenses key on most nights. Symir got worse and the wings are all over the place the coach is clueless and has no idea himself who should play.

Every coach is going to tell their team to throw off Girard don’t let him hit an early 3 and we’ll win. He’s nowhere near athletic enough to get to the line against good teams or even get himself good looks.

 

[Scooch]

Yeah, I'm not sure I buy that.

Agreed. Coaches watch film and know Joe’s game really well. I don’t doubt that they pay attention to him when he’s beyond the arc, but it’s not like the guy is Steph Curry.

I do think there’s merit to the notion that Joe needs to be on the floor because we have generally lousy outside shooting. And while Taylor looked good yesterday, it was also against Bryant.

I’ll just keep hammering the point that Joe is misused. His only real value is as a catch-and-shoot three point specialist. Problem is that the team doesn’t have enough other offensive weapons. So instead of being Marius Janulis, he’s asked to be Buddy. His situation is symptomatic of the entire program’s decline.

 

[djcon57]

Agreed. Coaches watch film and know Joe’s game really well. I don’t doubt that they pay attention to him when he’s beyond the arc, but it’s not like the guy is Steph Curry.

I do think there’s merit to the notion that Joe needs to be on the floor because we have generally lousy outside shooting. And while Taylor looked good yesterday, it was also against Bryant.

I’ll just keep hammering the point that Joe is misused. His only real value is as a catch-and-shoot three point specialist. Problem is that the team doesn’t have enough other offensive weapons. So instead of being Marius Janulis, he’s asked to be Buddy. His situation is symptomatic of the entire program’s decline.

also the issue with him being a catch and shoot shooter….and I was very wrong on this going into the season where I was thrilled he was finally going to play the 2…..he’s super lazy around screens. He’s walking. When the guy follows him, he stops. He’d rather do the dribble, shoot from 30 deal. It’s easier.

 

[Scooch]

also the issue with him being a catch and shoot shooter….and I was very wrong in this going into the season where I was thrilled he was finally going to play the 2…..he’s super lazy around screens. He’s walking. When the guy follows him, he stops. He’d rather do the dribble, shoot from 30 deal. It’s easier.

You’re 100% right about this. I almost didn’t write “catch and shoot” because of what you mentioned. But “27 foot chucker” didn’t sound as elegant.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

So I posted this in the post game thread and it has some relevance here:

Based on that article on Joe recently, he pretty much said that he views leading as meaning being the leading scorer, and after three seasons of watching Buddy lead, it's his turn to lead.

 

[djcon57]

Last night was the first time I've heard a multiple people heckling Joe in the Dome. Much like Trevor Cooney, though, I feel bad for the kid. JB is the one putting him in this position by steadfastly sticking with him, no matter how poorly he happens to be playing on a given night. JB's excuse that a shooter can get hot at any moment is just not cutting it. He plays favorites even when it hurts the team.

Agreed with a lot of this. Specifically the bad habits JB has allowed him to get away with for 4 years. Anyone that plays D like he does routinely would be pulled. He’s allowed Joe to know it’s ok to play that way. Just shoot and score and everything will be cool.

 

[MikeSU02]

So I posted this in the post game thread and it has some relevance here:

Based on that article on Joe recently, he pretty much said that he views leading as meaning being the leading scorer, and after three seasons of watching Buddy lead, it's his turn to lead.

When you see it lead to a sub .500 season, you have to mimic it.

/snark

 

[OttoinGrotto]

He doesn’t understand how to play basketball.

So, Jimmer is his role model, and I'd argue that the reason why Jimmer washed out of the NBA is because he doesn't understand how to play basketball.

Which sounds crazy! But it's true. He doesn't get it.

I remember he was on The Dan Patrick Show a few years back when he was joining the Westchester Knicks trying to make it back into the NBA. DP asked him what kind of feedback he was getting from NBA teams about things he needed to work on to stick in the NBA, probably expecting to hear Jimmer say things like improve his defense or make sure he takes good shots.

Instead Jimmer told DP that what NBA teams were telling him was that he just needed to find a team with a situation where they would let him play his game.

I'm pretty certain that's not the feedback he was given at all. He likes playing in China because they have fun with him just bombing away.

Now, I'm not saying that's Joe's mentality. Or putting the sins of Jimmer on Joe.

What I am saying is that's what a dude Joe looks up to believes and there's a chance they talked about stuff like this.

 

[blust2i3d4]

He’s a good shooter and an otherwise terrible basketball player.

So if he’s not shooting good, he’s actively hurting you.

0 minutes of Joe and 40 of Symir/Copeland, and we win the last 2 games. He’s absolutely killing us.

He should have played the quarterback in Ivy League.