KJ

[creatorsgam]

But I just cannot believe that they've given up on him for the coming season.

I agree. You do not make a career working with kids (young adults, young men, men, generic age-related masculine pronoun for those posters that will inevitably wish to argue semantics, etc.) and place a ceiling on abilities after they were forced into a situation that most would be set up to fail in.

 

[creatorsgam]

Ok, I need to see some FACTS as well on this issue, AS OPPOSED TO IDLE SPECUATION.
I agree w/ 2-3zone...where is this coming from, dash?

Could we also define "given up?" That could mean different things.

 

[jordoo]

Joseph has been recruited over. They looked for other options last year and are exploring other options this year. We know these are facts. IMO it doesn't mean that if he's the best option this year he won't be the pg but its obviously means the staff is looking elsewhere.
It's make or break for Kaleb this season at SU IMO. I personally think if he has the will to put in the work and get his confidence back he will surprise. I also conseed that he was thrown to the wolves last year which was never the plan but his arms still could have been raised on defense whatever other issues he was having.

 

[Scotch]

I agree. You do not make a career working with kids (young adults, young men, men, generic age-related masculine pronoun for those posters that will inevitably wish to argue semantics, etc.) and place a ceiling on abilities after they were forced into a situation that most would be set up to fail in.

It is all talent projection. The staff didn't expect a mistake-free season last year from a frosh PG. But do they see enough potential to give KJ the keys moving forward? I am sure they would love to be pleasantly surprised, but their actions indicate that at minimum they are pursuing contingency plans.

 

[anomander]

Joseph has been recruited over. They looked for other options last year and are exploring other options this year. We know these are facts. IMO it doesn't mean that if he's the best option this year he won't be the pg but its obviously means the staff is looking elsewhere. It's make or break for Kaleb this season at SU IMO. I personally think if he has the will to put in the work and get his confidence back he will surprise. I also conseed that he was thrown to the wolves last year which was never the plan but his arms still could have been raised on defense whatever other issues he was having.

Yep, especially now that it looks like G will be getting run at PG. But if G is the stop gap until Battle comes in then there's a very good possibility that Jospeh won't start another game at SU. He could still be a very serviceable back up, and u expect him to have a better year, but his role of getting big minutes may be over.

Just thinking of the length the 2016 squad will have is mind blowing. If Battle is a legit 6'7 as be no reported our zone could be scary good once we lock him up. With the addition of Chukwu and potentially Battle we're all a sudden right back as a contender in 2016.

 

[creatorsgam]

It is all talent projection. The staff didn't expect a mistake-free season last year from a frosh PG. But do they see enough potential to give KJ the keys moving forward? I am sure they would love to be pleasantly surprised, but their actions indicate that at minimum they are pursuing contingency plans.

Well put.

 

[Oakland]

uh oh - Dasherinpurgatory

I don't get snarky.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Nice. A bunch of in-fighting and dirty laundry, in a thread probably being monitored by a kid considering signing with us.

 

[kidorange]

I don't see how Joseph's future role stops a team from recruiting a ball handler. You can't get by bringing in 1 PG over three years.

I also don't see how it could even be a thought at this point of sending Joseph out to pasture. This staff has seen too many kids blossom, especially in year 2. He will get minutes, he will have a chance to earn more. At the very least, he would be the only other PG on the team in '16 (and the only with experience) and would be a serviceable backup.

 

[creatorsgam]

Nice. A bunch of in-fighting and dirty laundry, in a thread probably being monitored by a kid considering signing with us.

Relax. This place is a sanctuary relative to the rest of the Internet. If he has ever visited any other message board, ever, this thread would be worth a laugh for him and nothing worse.

 

[AlaskaSU]

Dasher isn't the only person to say this. Another prominent board "insider" suggested Joseph was going to get Allen Griffin'd right after the Gbinije article came out.

Allen lost his starting job but he lived to start again as a senior and did a fine job. He also started in a two point guard line-up vs Michigan in our last ncaa game when he was a junior. Great loyalty. Would like to see him on staff when Hop takes over.

 

[Oakland]

I agree with most of what you say, but not the 'make or break' statement. Except for a number of limited situations, all elite programs try to recruit the next best thing. If you are the previous best thing and didn't keep up - well, keep you head up. This is the situation I see for KJ. Even if we get Battle, and ..., and, ..., KJ will get plenty of minutes off the bench. I also expect him to be the starter at least one of his next 3 seasons, and he will end being a very good player that we will be sad when he runs out of eligibility. I'll also predict that he will be awesome as a senior. If he comes off the bench his senior year, SU will be really good.

Joseph has been recruited over. They looked for other options last year and are exploring other options this year. We know these are facts. IMO it doesn't mean that if he's the best option this year he won't be the pg but its obviously means the staff is looking elsewhere.
It's make or break for Kaleb this season at SU IMO. I personally think if he has the will to put in the work and get his confidence back he will surprise. I also conseed that he was thrown to the wolves last year which was never the plan but his arms still could have been raised on defense whatever other issues he was having.

 

[Brooky03]

I agree with most of what you say, but not the 'make or break' statement. Except for a number of limited situations, all elite programs try to recruit the next best thing. If you are the previous best thing and didn't keep up - well, keep you head up. This is the situation I see for KJ. Even if we get Battle, and ..., and, ..., KJ will get plenty of minutes off the bench. I also expect him to be the starter at least one of his next 3 seasons, and he will end being a very good player that we will be sad when he runs out of eligibility. I'll also predict that he will be awesome as a senior. If he comes off the bench his senior year, SU will be really good.

Yeah, I see being recruited over as a school taking extraordinary steps to replace a player immediately, not continuing to pursue a player who was already targeted before the current player even committed. If we land Battle, will that mean KJ was recruited over? I guess, yeah, in the technical sense. But that would have been the plan all along, assuming the staff never faltered in its commitment to landing Battle. No way Battle was coming here without guaranteed playing time, and the staff knew Joseph would still be here.

 

[Orangezoo]

Honestly the opinion of an individual close to the situation that is negative and about a current member of the program really doesnt belong on here. Couldnt say it any clearr JB. Also the season has yet to begin. Lets let things play out so that we can bring battle into the cuse family and hope for a solid season from our entire team and backcourt. This thread is painful to read through and be it a good source or not its still not a good thing to be etching things in stone that are a long ways from being actual occurrences. May not be a bad idea to wash this thread of the negative KJ posts imho.

 

[jordoo]

I agree with most of what you say, but not the 'make or break' statement. Except for a number of limited situations, all elite programs try to recruit the next best thing. If you are the previous best thing and didn't keep up - well, keep you head up. This is the situation I see for KJ. Even if we get Battle, and ..., and, ..., KJ will get plenty of minutes off the bench. I also expect him to be the starter at least one of his next 3 seasons, and he will end being a very good player that we will be sad when he runs out of eligibility. I'll also predict that he will be awesome as a senior. If he comes off the bench his senior year, SU will be really good.

Fair enough. I'll be honest I'm still not counting KJ out and think he very well could play more PG minutes than anyone else this year. I'm just point out that the staff is surely looking at all options. Lets not forget that Buss got run last year so Frank will also get his chance at least in practice and preseason and they have obviously discussed with Mike his possible role at PG. I think KJ will be a very good PG as a Senior and possibly a Junior. I'm not convinced it will be at SU although as you mention it would be great to have him then especially if he was coming off the bench because it would mean we are stacked. I would not be shocked to see him play a Scoop circa 09 roll where he comes off the bench and gives us a completely different look.

 

[kuethstheman]

All this about KJ reminds of something HFCDM said he told all recruits. Something like: I want you to come to SU but my job is to recruit someone better than you next year so you better work your ass off!

 

[jordoo]

All this about KJ reminds of something HFCDM said he told all recruits. Something like: I want you to come to SU but my job is to recruit someone better than you next year so you better work your ass off!

This is especially true in bball. If the kids are good enough they move on quickly and if they aren't you need other options until they develop.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Fair enough. I'll be honest I'm still not counting KJ out and think he very well could play more PG minutes than anyone else this year. I'm just point out that the staff is surely looking at all options. Lets not forget that Buss got run last year so Frank will also get his chance at least in practice and preseason and they have obviously discussed with Mike his possible role at PG. I think KJ will be a very good PG as a Senior and possibly a Junior. I'm not convinced it will be at SU although as you mention it would be great to have him then especially if he was coming off the bench because it would mean we are stacked. I would not be shocked to see him play a Scoop circa 09 roll where he comes off the bench and gives us a completely different look.

The fact that Ron Patterson touched the ball as a PG tells you all you need to know about KJ.

 

[MSOrange]

I'm going back to following Francis on Twitter for my updates.

This thread is cringe-worthy.

Yeah both of the recruiting boards are generally fantastic and a great source of information. But this one got a bit out of hand.

 

[HoustonCuse]

All this stuff about KJ is nuts. I have no idea what people have heard or been told, but I find it wholly unbelievable that our coaching staff has "written off" anybody who is on the team right now. They are coaches and teachers of the game - you don't get to be that by writing people off. Especially somebody like Mike Hopkins. He recruited KJ and saw potential in him and I personally think he and the rest of the staff will work their butts off to help him maximize that potential.

I could understand if they have arrived at a point of lowering some expectations for him, to the point of feeling like another guard is a recruiting priority (Battle being that guard), but that doesn't mean they have given up on him. I think that wording is what is putting people off. I absolutely refuse to believe that this staff will completely write somebody off unless they just aren't willing to work or if they are an attitude or behavior problem. I haven't seen or heard anything to suggest KJ is a problem kid and if his work ethic on defense is questioned, I'd say that is part of his maturing process and the coaches will work on that with him.

 

[IthacaMatt]

While this would be amazing Im not sure how it could possibly happen considering we are already 1 over the scholly limit with Chkwu coming aboard now. I suppose the assumption is that the appeal will add another 1 or 2? Or that as usual someone we would never expect now leaves for the NBA early. Or Chino leaves a la buss/bj.

People could leave. Dajuan might call it a career if he can't return from injury, or he might graduate and leave with a year of eligibility remaining, so he could start earning money while his knees permit. Chino might transfer, although I never encourage kids to do that. But if he can't get on the court and play a significant role this year, who knows? And then there's Kaleb. If Battle and Huerter were to sign (Huerter coming the following year after a year at prep school), then Kaleb will probably be told that he's been recruited over and won't play a big role here in the future, and then it's up to him to make his decision. Paul Harris was told that Wes Johnson was going to start over him if he stayed, so he didn't. These things happen.

 

[pfister1]

Joseph has been recruited over. They looked for other options last year and are exploring other options this year. We know these are facts. IMO it doesn't mean that if he's the best option this year he won't be the pg but its obviously means the staff is looking elsewhere.
It's make or break for Kaleb this season at SU IMO. I personally think if he has the will to put in the work and get his confidence back he will surprise. I also conseed that he was thrown to the wolves last year which was never the plan but his arms still could have been raised on defense whatever other issues he was having.

I think the recruitment of guards and potentially one and done guards at that means that the staff does not have enough faith in Joseph's ability to pencil him in as the starter the next couple of years.

That is different than kicking him to the curb. It's not like he has been told to leave, or at least it doesn't publicly appear that he has been told to leave, or his scholarship has been revoked.

The bottom line is that as long as he is here he still has the opportunity to compete for minutes and for the position, but the staff is sending pretty clear signals that he won't be #1 on the depth chart and if we get commitments from some of the guys that we have offers out to he will obviously have a tougher time winning minutes than if they completely trusted him and decided to burn the scholarship on another 6'10" cat rescuer instead of help at the guard spot.

 

[Antiprodigy]

okay, enough with the hints from others, I will say it plainly. Could we please move the discussion about Joseph, recruiting over, etc. off this thread?!? It's fine. Have a thread in the basketball forum about this. I'm not trying to discourage the discussion, just the location. This doesn't really have to do with Tyus Battle, who this thread is supposed to be about.

Thank You.

P.S. Mods feel free to delete this post after this stuff is moved.

 

[pearl31]

okay, enough with the hints from others, I will say it plainly. Could we please move the discussion about Joseph, recruiting over, etc. off this thread?!? It's fine. Have a thread in the basketball forum about this. I'm not trying to discourage the discussion, just the location. This doesn't really have to do with Tyus Battle, who this thread is supposed to be about.

Thank You.

P.S. Mods feel free to delete this post after this stuff is moved.

yeah, let's get anything non-Battle out of here

 

[orange79]

These posts have been moved from the Tyus Battle thread - have at it.