Look at all the small guards in the final four

[STEVEHOLT]

Its almost as if you don't need to be 6'4 and 6'6 in the back court to win?

 

[two3zone]

Its almost as if you don't need to be 6'4 and 6'6 in the back court to win?

Have we won anything with a tall point guard? We've missed some good guys because we need that length.

 

[jdubs30]

Have we won anything with a tall point guard? We've missed some good guys because we need that length.

MCWs sophomore year.

Silent G senior year - although mostly all of our success came in the NCAAs and Atlantis

 

[STEVEHOLT]

Have we won anything with a tall point guard? We've missed some good guys because we need that length.

Edelin?

 

[Zepharus]

Its almost as if you don't need to be 6'4 and 6'6 in the back court to win?

Guards are THE most important college position. Having fast guards that can shoot an push temp. We are the exact opposite of that, and have been for a long time. JG3 could signal a change

 

[cspades99]

Who needs height if you can dribble, shoot, drive, and make good decisions?

 

[Brooky03]

GMac was a limited PG in '03 who mostly just shot the ball and didn't make mistakes. He wasn't beating anybody off the bounce and wasn't dropping many dimes. His 3 point percentage was very good but we've had a handful of more efficient guards who were also bigger.

I love Gerry and nobody will ever match his cajones. He played better D than he gets credit for, and we all know he was unstoppable when hot. But from a pure production standpoint, the big guards we've had have been able to contribute at a similar or better level as one of our most notable small guards. The measurable stats are in favor of the taller guards (Frank excluded).

Jonny Flynn was electric and possibly the best offensive weapon at PG that we've had. Certainly top 3. How deep into the NCAAT did his teams go? How was the defense?

We can't have another Frank Howard at starting PG. We can certainly do fine, better than fine, with other 6'4" PGs. Andy was 6'4" and that team was pretty good.

 

[CaptainJ]

We can't have another Frank Howard at starting PG. We can certainly do fine, better than fine, with other 6'4" PGs. Andy was 6'4" and that team was pretty good.

Dont drag Bernie into this.

 

[Cusefan0307]

GMac was a limited PG in '03 who mostly just shot the ball and didn't make mistakes. He wasn't beating anybody off the bounce and wasn't dropping many dimes. His 3 point percentage was very good but we've had a handful of more efficient guards who were also bigger.

I love Gerry and nobody will ever match his cajones. He played better D than he gets credit for, and we all know he was unstoppable when hot. But from a pure production standpoint, the big guards we've had have been able to contribute at a similar or better level as one of our most notable small guards. The measurable stats are in favor of the taller guards (Frank excluded).

Jonny Flynn was electric and possibly the best offensive weapon at PG that we've had. Certainly top 3. How deep into the NCAAT did his teams go? How was the defense?

We can't have another Frank Howard at starting PG. We can certainly do fine, better than fine, with other 6'4" PGs. Andy was 6'4" and that team was pretty good.

Gerry had a 2 to 1 A to TO ratio. Pretty good.

 

[Madbiker]

But the zone...it's all about wingspan and length. We don't need no stinkin' sub 6'4 guards who are lightening fast and can handle, penetrate, finish, dish, and oh yeah shoot. LOL.

 

[Millhouse]

Its almost as if you don't need to be 6'4 and 6'6 in the back court to win?

i'm a broken record about it but i can't be the only one watching these guys thinking these great players wouldn't succeed in a zone.

people freak out when opponents' guards make shots and yell about the zone. i yell about the zone when our guards can't make shots.

 

[Cuse'91]

Feel like quick guards have been the key ingredient to FF success since those Arizona teams with Bibby and Simon. Then there are all the UConn 'ships with great guards, and Nova lately...

 

[Cusefan0307]

Cassius Winston is anything, but quick. Skilled though.

 

[Millhouse]

can anyone think of a way to have success in the zone with smaller guards? is there something different we could do while still staying zone (it's more realistic to hope for that than anything else) - what can they do?

 

[Ringostar57]

SU all time best guards been under 6-3...Vinnie, Dave who was more like 6-2 Duval, Kohls, Lee, bug Williams,
Douglas, McNamara and yes they played zone. Skill and brains pays dividends.

 

[Brooky03]

Gerry had a 2 to 1 A to TO ratio. Pretty good.

It's good, but the number of assists matters and that's not a stat he really racked up. For example, 2 assists and 0 turnovers is a great a/to ratio. Not a good stateline for a PG though.

 

[Cusefan0307]

It's good, but the number of assists matters and that's not a stat he really racked up. For example, 2 assists and 0 turnovers is a great a/to ratio. Not a good stateline for a PG though.

He averaged 4.4 a game. More than he did the next year.

 

[RF2044]

can anyone think of a way to have success in the zone with smaller guards? is there something different we could do while still staying zone (it's more realistic to hope for that than anything else) - what can they do?

We had success in 2003, with a smaller guard.

We had success in 2012, with a smaller guard.

The way to do it is to recruit for the zone for all positions EXCEPT point guard. Don't sacrifice lead guard skill for height / length.

I'm afraid that since JB had success with MCW and then Gbinije, he's going to chase unicorns in hopes of finding the next 6-7 guy to play up top, ending up with a bunch of inadequate guard play along the way.

 

[MikeSU02]

can anyone think of a way to have success in the zone with smaller guards? is there something different we could do while still staying zone (it's more realistic to hope for that than anything else) - what can they do?

Guys with huge wingspans and are quick?

 

[Brooky03]

He averaged 4.4 a game. More than he did the next year.

I know. 4.4 isn't exactly good

 

[Millhouse]

Guys with huge wingspans and are quick?

long ball handling shooters are unicorns - ha i didn't catch that rf used "unicorns" earlier

 

[MikeSU02]

long ball handling shooters are unicorns

I'm fine if they can't shoot that well if the 2 and 3 can shoot (just my opinion).

 

[Cusefan0307]

I know. 4.4 isn't exactly good

Oh ffs I'm not getting into it with someone trying to minimize Gmac's accomplishments that year. Ridiculous. He led the team in assists and steals.

 

[Millhouse]

We had success in 2003, with a smaller guard.

We had success in 2012, with a smaller guard.

The way to do it is to recruit for the zone for all positions EXCEPT point guard. Don't sacrifice lead guard skill for height / length.

I'm afraid that since JB had success with MCW and then Gbinije, he's going to chase unicorns in hopes of finding the next 6-7 guy to play up top, ending up with a bunch of inadequate guard play along the way.

2003 was a bit weird - anthony is like some deus ex machina in Boeheim's story. i think that's the only way we really succeed in a big way - small forward cheat code. the defense wasn't that good that year

bazley was supposed to be that guy (probably not anthony but who is)

scoop was bigger and slower than a lot of the high scoring guards in this tournament

 

[MikeSU02]

SU all time best guards been under 6-3...Vinnie, Dave who was more like 6-2 Duval, Kohls, Lee, bug Williams,
Douglas, McNamara and yes they played zone. Skill and brains pays dividends.

Would JB recruit Sherm today? Probably not, right?