LSU

[CousCuse]

What is the point to playing those teams? If you play a team like Lsu, and you are ever competitive with them, your team can gain a lot of confidence. Teams schedule tough non conference games to build their teams, so when they get later in the season, their teams are ready.

You must not have read the entire thread because that is what I have been arguing for . The other people on here want to play Wagner , Charlotte , Miami Ohio and Kansas as our OOC.

 

[Stern]

What is the point to playing those teams? If you play a team like Lsu, and you are ever competitive with them, your team can gain a lot of confidence. Teams schedule tough non conference games to build their teams, so when they get later in the season, their teams are ready.

What confidence did SU gain last year? They were terrible. Moral Victories don't do squat but get coaches fired

 

[Cuse'91]

What confidence did SU gain last year? They were terrible. Moral Victories don't do squat but get coaches fired

With FSU and Clemson in our division, no need to place LSU on the schedule. Play Vandy, Illinois, West Virginia...

 

[Briancuse]

What confidence did SU gain last year? They were terrible. Moral Victories don't do squat but get coaches fired

We were a bad team last year, but in years coming we hope to be better, I think playing Lsu tough, helped us against Clemson.

 

[FAL]

We were a bad team last year, but in years coming we hope to be better, I think playing Lsu tough, helped us against Clemson.

Good. Then hopefully we play ND tough which will help us against Clemson and FSU. And seriously, aren't 3 really tough opponents like these enough for a season? (And I am in no disparaging our other oppenents this coming season.)

 

[NineOneSeven]

What is the point to playing those teams? If you play a team like Lsu, and you are ever competitive with them, your team can gain a lot of confidence. Teams schedule tough non conference games to build their teams, so when they get later in the season, their teams are ready.

This isn't like basketball.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

I completely disagree, our non die hard fans support teams that win, not "come close"and end up with a 4 win season.

Nope. Even in the McNabb years, we rarely sold out

 

[rocklloyd]

Nope. Even in the McNabb years, we rarely sold out

Huge attendence difference between mcnabb years and last couple of years

 

[Stern]

We were a bad team last year, but in years coming we hope to be better, I think playing Lsu tough, helped us against Clemson.

We lost to Clemson. How did it help? Gain us another moral victory? Not attacking you I just don't get that logic. It's about winning games

 

[HtownOrange]

Scheduling, recruiting, coaching and performance are separate issues. Each can affect the others. However, each must be viewed separator before combining them go draw conclusions.

Scheduling should always be respectable. We have a decent conference schedule, no doubt. However, OOC games matter, to recruits pollsters and fans. A cupcake tune up game is acceptable, no more than one. There should be one top name game, two when the Orange get back to where we should be. The remaining game(s) should be middle of the road. Never shy away from fan draws and travelling crowds. VATech was built on cream puffs and they are disdained for it outside of Virginia. Yeah, they get a few morons on TV to puff them up but fans across the country try think nothing of VATech. Their win over tOSU was their high mark. One OOC game, so what. Nobody cares. TTech, the same. Rutgers, the same. The reason that TCU is respected is because they took on all comers, winning some and losing some. That is the model to schedule if you are not an elite team.

Performance is a separate matter. Syracuse has underperformed. Plain and simple. GRob was not a good HC. Marrone did a good job but flew the coup. Shafer made some bad decisions and was not prepared. That is in the past. Through it all, we have had several kids shine. The support cast as failed to perform. Part of that is on coaching and part is on the kids.

Coaching is the weak spot. Several teams win with the same level talent, TCU, Baylor, Boise St., the list goes on. The staff has the duty to use the kids they have to perform their best. Marrone did a good job and probably would have been a lifer had he decided to stay. It is probable he would have taken the team far, too. Life happens. HCDB has a proven system. He has good to kids on the team. He has proven coaches.

Recruiting is tricky. Coaches judge the talent they want. Recruiting services are at best an attempt to rank kids but a failure on a consistent basis. Additionally, the duty to develop recruits is on the coaches and players. Getting a kid in is just step one.

Naturally, these points are just the tip of the iceberg. Each is far deeper than listed above. They all intertwine and there are other factors as well, I am only simplifying the argument for a fan board discussion and not a dissertation on team building and dynamics.

Now that the disclaimer is in place, making a cream puff schedule does nothing for the true objectives. If kids play cream puffs, they rarely improve. Coaching slacks off because they "know" they can beat these guys. Recruits have no interest in beating Albany St. on an annual basis.

Syracuse has a long-standing history and tradition of being willing to play anyone and being dangerous to play. This attitude forced Florida to stop playing tough OOC games outside of Florida. They dropped Miami, too. They tried to drop FSU but that was politically impossible to do. All at a time when the SEC was not the SEC of today! Fortunately, they had the SEC to help make their arguments to playing a decent schedule and FSU. Itnearly cost them due to the weak OOC they switched to.

Why do people fear Alabama, OU, FSU, ND, etc.? Because they will schedule tough teams. Ride the lows and build up. No need to over schedule with 4 brand names but avoiding the big boys annually is as bad or worse than losing. No one talks about Rutgers success because everyone knows they beat up cream puffs, won against down teams and cannot sustain winning against decent teams. VATech only gained in recognition AFTER joining the ACC when they played more name teams. And since Miami tanked, they get respect for beating Miami. All due to a history of feasting on cupcakes and creampuffs.

Perception does matter. We have a winning coach. Our schedule is not that tough (not even close to when it was annually rakednas one of the toughest!). There is no reason to not expect to go bowling annually. HCDB should have us in the mix regularly and coming out on top in some big games in a few years, with a shot at the ACC crown and playoffs after that.

 

[FAL]

Scheduling, recruiting, coaching and performance are separate issues. Each can affect the others. However, each must be viewed separator before combining them go draw conclusions.

Scheduling should always be respectable. We have a decent conference schedule, no doubt. However, OOC games matter, to recruits pollsters and fans. A cupcake tune up game is acceptable, no more than one. There should be one top name game, two when the Orange get back to where we should be. The remaining game(s) should be middle of the road. Never shy away from fan draws and travelling crowds. VATech was built on cream puffs and they are disdained for it outside of Virginia. Yeah, they get a few morons on TV to puff them up but fans across the country try think nothing of VATech. Their win over tOSU was their high mark. One OOC game, so what. Nobody cares. TTech, the same. Rutgers, the same. The reason that TCU is respected is because they took on all comers, winning some and losing some. That is the model to schedule if you are not an elite team.

Performance is a separate matter. Syracuse has underperformed. Plain and simple. GRob was not a good HC. Marrone did a good job but flew the coup. Shafer made some bad decisions and was not prepared. That is in the past. Through it all, we have had several kids shine. The support cast as failed to perform. Part of that is on coaching and part is on the kids.

Coaching is the weak spot. Several teams win with the same level talent, TCU, Baylor, Boise St., the list goes on. The staff has the duty to use the kids they have to perform their best. Marrone did a good job and probably would have been a lifer had he decided to stay. It is probable he would have taken the team far, too. Life happens. HCDB has a proven system. He has good to kids on the team. He has proven coaches.

Recruiting is tricky. Coaches judge the talent they want. Recruiting services are at best an attempt to rank kids but a failure on a consistent basis. Additionally, the duty to develop recruits is on the coaches and players. Getting a kid in is just step one.

Naturally, these points are just the tip of the iceberg. Each is far deeper than listed above. They all intertwine and there are other factors as well, I am only simplifying the argument for a fan board discussion and not a dissertation on team building and dynamics.

Now that the disclaimer is in place, making a cream puff schedule does nothing for the true objectives. If kids play cream puffs, they rarely improve. Coaching slacks off because they "know" they can beat these guys. Recruits have no interest in beating Albany St. on an annual basis.

Syracuse has a long-standing history and tradition of being willing to play anyone and being dangerous to play. This attitude forced Florida to stop playing tough OOC games outside of Florida. They dropped Miami, too. They tried to drop FSU but that was politically impossible to do. All at a time when the SEC was not the SEC of today! Fortunately, they had the SEC to help make their arguments to playing a decent schedule and FSU. Itnearly cost them due to the weak OOC they switched to.

Why do people fear Alabama, OU, FSU, ND, etc.? Because they will schedule tough teams. Ride the lows and build up. No need to over schedule with 4 brand names but avoiding the big boys annually is as bad or worse than losing. No one talks about Rutgers success because everyone knows they beat up cream puffs, won against down teams and cannot sustain winning against decent teams. VATech only gained in recognition AFTER joining the ACC when they played more name teams. And since Miami tanked, they get respect for beating Miami. All due to a history of feasting on cupcakes and creampuffs.

Perception does matter. We have a winning coach. Our schedule is not that tough (not even close to when it was annually rakednas one of the toughest!). There is no reason to not expect to go bowling annually. HCDB should have us in the mix regularly and coming out on top in some big games in a few years, with a shot at the ACC crown and playoffs after that.

Very well thought out post. I agree with 90% of it. But why do we have to seek out a top ten OOC opponent when we already play 2 consistently top 10 teams (FSU, Clemson) and arguably a third (Louisville) as well as quality in-conference foes? Doesn't SU already play one of the hardest schedules in college ball? Why pile on more? I don't see that as a formula for success. (Success = victories; real victories > moral victories)

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Huge attendence difference between mcnabb years and last couple of years

But, we rarely sold out. That's my point. The only sellouts were "name" opponents.
FB schools sell out because of the home team, not the visitor.

 

[Briancuse]

We lost to Clemson. How did it help? Gain us another moral victory? Not attacking you I just don't get that logic. It's about winning games

We played the team that played for a national title as tough as anyone else. Going forward its about winning games, but last year when you win 4 games, you have to hang your hat on something.

 

[FAL]

But, we rarely sold out. That's my point. The only sellouts were "name" opponents.
FB schools sell out because of the home team, not the visitor.

^This!^ We need to get to the point where people, especially the homies, think of us as a football school again. If Dino builds it, they will come.

 

[HtownOrange]

Very well thought out post. I agree with 90% of it. But why do we have to seek out a top ten OOC opponent when we already play 2 consistently top 10 teams (FSU, Clemson) and arguably a third (Louisville) as well as quality in-conference foes? Doesn't SU already play one of the hardest schedules in college ball? Why pile on more? I don't see that as a formula for success. (Success = victories; real victories > moral victories)

Clemson and FSU haven't been perennial top 10 except as of late. Louisville is decent, but often overrated by many here and on other sites, in and out of the top 25. Let's not pretend that Wake, NCState, BC, Pitt, and the Coastal in general have been steadily ranked. Besides, playing a big boy outside of the conference will always draw attention.

Please note that I did not claim that we have to play the Top 10 only, but we should not shy away from the big names. Many fans recall that Syracuse has a history of being a big boy, too. We should never parley that away for a few cheesy victories. I don't recommend playing all four OOC games against the big boys, one annually should be sufficient (and, yes, ND generally would fill that bill).

I am not looking for moral victories. I expect to be competitive and win a fair share of these games. However, shying away from the big names does nothing substantive and if you lose, the damage is far worse. Let's be honest, the offense has sucked the last few seasons because it was complicated. HCDM's offense was complicated, too. Once the offense was simplified, the kids performed quite well. HCDB has a simplified offense, the kids seem to be taking to it quite well. I expect results and the win total to be larger than the loss total. Why not schedule accordingly?

 

[FAL]

Clemson and FSU haven't been perennial top 10 except as of late. Louisville is decent, but often overrated by many here and on other sites, in and out of the top 25. Let's not pretend that Wake, NCState, BC, Pitt, and the Coastal in general have been steadily ranked. Besides, playing a big boy outside of the conference will always draw attention.

Please note that I did not claim that we have to play the Top 10 only, but we should not shy away from the big names. Many fans recall that Syracuse has a history of being a big boy, too. We should never parley that away for a few cheesy victories. I don't recommend playing all four OOC games against the big boys, one annually should be sufficient (and, yes, ND generally would fill that bill).

I am not looking for moral victories. I expect to be competitive and win a fair share of these games. However, shying away from the big names does nothing substantive and if you lose, the damage is far worse. Let's be honest, the offense has sucked the last few seasons because it was complicated. HCDM's offense was complicated, too. Once the offense was simplified, the kids performed quite well. HCDB has a simplified offense, the kids seem to be taking to it quite well. I expect results and the win total to be larger than the loss total. Why not schedule accordingly?

Agree to disagree on the main points of this discussion. Let's give Coach Babers the time and room to get his system in place... and then, and only then... let's revisit this discussion.

I love that we can seem to be on opposite ends of a discussion but ultimately agree on our mutual fandom. LGO!

 

[HtownOrange]

Agree to disagree on the main points of this discussion. Let's give Coach Babers the time and room to get his system in place... and then, and only then... let's revisit this discussion.

I love that we can seem to be on opposite ends of a discussion but ultimately agree on our mutual fandom. LGO!

That is why I love this board. People can disagree and we don't have to call each other names to make our point.

I also agree that we give Babers his chance. I believe he will have us wanting to play the teams we all recall our Orange(men) playing.

 

[Stern]

We played the team that played for a national title as tough as anyone else. Going forward its about winning games, but last year when you win 4 games, you have to hang your hat on something.

It's always about winning games and only about winning games.

 

[Briancuse]

It's always about winning games and only about winning games.

You get better by playing better competition, I'm not saying go out and schedule Lsu, Ohio St, Bama, Michigan, but there is nothing wrong with playing a top team in the non conference schedule.

 

[721Comstock]

You get better by playing better competition, I'm not saying go out and schedule Lsu, Ohio St, Bama, Michigan, but there is nothing wrong with playing a top team in the non conference schedule.

Other than the virtually guaranteed L.

Which, for a team that struggles regularly with attaining bowl eligibility, is most definitely something wrong.

 

[Briancuse]

Other than the virtually guaranteed L.

Which, for a team that struggles regularly with attaining bowl eligibility, is most definitely something wrong.

That loss might result in more wins over the course of the season, because your team is battle tested.

 

[TampaLaker]

Scheduling, recruiting, coaching and performance are separate issues. Each can affect the others. However, each must be viewed separator before combining them go draw conclusions.

Scheduling should always be respectable. We have a decent conference schedule, no doubt. However, OOC games matter, to recruits pollsters and fans. A cupcake tune up game is acceptable, no more than one. There should be one top name game, two when the Orange get back to where we should be. The remaining game(s) should be middle of the road. Never shy away from fan draws and travelling crowds. VATech was built on cream puffs and they are disdained for it outside of Virginia. Yeah, they get a few morons on TV to puff them up but fans across the country try think nothing of VATech. Their win over tOSU was their high mark. One OOC game, so what. Nobody cares. TTech, the same. Rutgers, the same. The reason that TCU is respected is because they took on all comers, winning some and losing some. That is the model to schedule if you are not an elite team.

I have lived in the Tampa area for almost 18 years; I have never once heard people cut down VaTech here. So maybe in Houston you have heard that, but not everyone everywhere holds to that "perception." I will say that I have heard a lot of people talk about SU being the kind of team that USF should beat easily in recruiting. And I have never heard them talk about SU having good games but losing to a highly regarded school.

 

[721Comstock]

That loss might result in more wins over the course of the season, because your team is battle tested.

You mean, like it did last year? :noidea:

 

[NineOneSeven]

That loss might result in more wins over the course of the season, because your team is battle tested.

This is not basketball. You have fewer games. You don't take an early L because you think it has a better chance of getting you to 6+ wins. That's ludicrous thought process.

 

[Briancuse]

This is not basketball. You have fewer games. You don't take an early L because you think it has a better chance of getting you to 6+ wins. That's ludicrous thought process.

Then why do teams go out and schedule tough non conference games?