Mike Hopkins and UW

[pearl31]

when JB decides

hmmm

 

[007]

And Shaka Smart had an extended run of success prior to Texas, leading VCU on several deep tournament runs, achieving top 25 national ranking [no small feat at VCU], and also to a final four.

Shaka Smart is an interesting name...

During the period when it was assumed that JB would coach 3 more seasons and then retire (following the NCAA sanctions), there was some chatter linking at least some level of interest between Smart and SU. I don't know the degree of that interest, if any. Obviously, nothing came of this. Shaka was named the Texas HC shortly thereafter.

Different AD at the time, but I wouldn't be too surprised to see Smart's name pop up again. I'd be good with that.

 

[RF2044]

Shaka Smart is an interesting name...

During the period when it was assumed that JB would coach 3 more seasons and then retire (following the NCAA sanctions), there was some chatter linking at least some level of interest between Smart and SU. I don't know the degree of that interest, if any. Obviously, nothing came of this. Shaka was named the Texas HC shortly thereafter.

Different AD at the time, but I wouldn't be too surprised to see Smart's name pop up again. I'd be good with that.

I think some of it stemmed from Shaka having an out clause in his contract with VCU that said he could leave for the SU job [and maybe 1 other program -- don't recall which] with no buy-out penalty.

Not sure why he included us, since he's not from the NE / NY, but it definitely was intriguing back then.

 

[007]

I think some of it stemmed from Shaka having an out clause in his contract with VCU that said he could leave for the SU job [and maybe 1 other program -- don't recall which] with no buy-out penalty.

Not sure why he included us, since he's not from the NE / NY, but it definitely was intriguing back then.

Yup. I think there was a Gross-Smart connection.

 

[TinyManInside]

He started out well -- but I discount it somewhat because he primarily inherited a team from the pervious coach, who was a REAL deadeye recruiter, and rode that roster to initial success before things got worse once he had his own guys in the program.

Your point about whether he "can coach" is certainly debatable, given the three year decline he's orchestrated after the first two years.

There are reasons for the decline, but I don't categorically dismiss the results as you do. A one-off year can be explained by bad luck or unfortunate circumstances -- a player getting bad grades here, an injury there. But a multi-year trend is a pattern.

Hop is a great guy, but it doesn't appear that he has the chops to coach a P5 program at this stage of his developmental curve. If he's terminated by UW after this year, then he'll probably need a rehab stint [possibly at the NBA level] before he gets another P5 opportunity. Or he might be able to go down a level and stay D1.

But the notion that he can fail miserably at UW but deserves to immediately transition here is something that doesn't jibe logically. Sure, the results MIGHT be different -- but then again, maybe the won't. Because whether he "can coach" is not a given.

I agree with the majority of what you say here. I have completely reversed my position on Hop, I thought he was going to be a great head coach and the results are sort of bafflingly weird, enough so that I don't want to see him as the head coach of SU. But I also think that his ability to get talent, at least on the east coast, cannot be understated.

This all comes down to what you think the program IS. If you're looking to sustain perreniel 18-13 regular seasons like the last 7+ years then I don't see any reason why Hop can't do that. He might not be the game coach that Boeheim is (was, actually), but I'm pretty certain he'd have a lot better talent to work with than what we've seen the last 7+ year and I think that would offset his coaching limitations.

Now, if you want to achieve the success this program had for the first 38 years of Boeheim, look somewhere else.

I want to look somewhere else.

[it pains me to say this because I really love Hop as a person. I know him as being genuine, energetic, incredibly enthusiastic, thoughtful, giving, and engaged. I hate that I even wrote this]

 

[DoctorBombay]

I think some of it stemmed from Shaka having an out clause in his contract with VCU that said he could leave for the SU job [and maybe 1 other program -- don't recall which] with no buy-out penalty.

Not sure why he included us, since he's not from the NE / NY, but it definitely was intriguing back then.

Someone posted we might be in for a rude awakening looking for a new coach. I strenuously beg to differ. IMO, SU is a Top 5 job in cbb.
The bigger issue might be who wants to step in and follow a legend, should we go outside the Cuse family- which is another reason I think we probably won't. The only thing that might alter that prospect would be if JB decides to hang on a few more years, and further tarnishes his legacy. Then I believe it would be easier, and more likely, for the AD to start fresh with a new hire from outside.

 

[Willy75]

I have no doubt Hop would recruit at a consistent top 10-15 level if back at syracuse. In-game coaching? I dont watch a lot of Washington games so would defer to all of you. But if it's talent that we're after, Hop back in Syracuse is a no brainer.

If Hop is hired as the lead assistant in charge of recruiting that’s great. With his HC record at UW (especially post Isiah Stewart) and in a limited cameo at SU I can’t see any way he gets the top spot. Note that UW’s recent run of modest success was vs the dregs of the Pac 12 and while Hop was sidelined with Covid (for part).

 

[samspann1]

Someone posted we might be in for a rude awakening looking for a new coach. I strenuously beg to differ. IMO, SU is a Top 5 job in cbb.
The bigger issue might be who wants to step in and follow a legend, should we go outside the Cuse family- which is another reason I think we probably won't. The only thing that might alter that prospect would be if JB decides to hang on a few more years, and further tarnishes his legacy. Then I believe it would be easier, and more likely, for the AD to start fresh with a new hire from outside.

I don't know about that...Duke, UNC, Kentucky, Kansas, and...SU?

 

[AZOrange]

I have no doubt Hop would recruit at a consistent top 10-15 level if back at syracuse. In-game coaching? I dont watch a lot of Washington games so would defer to all of you. But if it's talent that we're after, Hop back in Syracuse is a no brainer.

Agreed. His recruiting Rolodex is unmatched

 

[AZOrange]

Someone posted we might be in for a rude awakening looking for a new coach. I strenuously beg to differ. IMO, SU is a Top 5 job in cbb.
The bigger issue might be who wants to step in and follow a legend, should we go outside the Cuse family- which is another reason I think we probably won't. The only thing that might alter that prospect would be if JB decides to hang on a few more years, and further tarnishes his legacy. Then I believe it would be easier, and more likely, for the AD to start fresh with a new hire from outside.

It was me. And it was for the exact reason you described

 

[AZOrange]

I don't know about that...Duke, UNC, Kentucky, Kansas, and...SU?

Yeah we are Top 15 for sure. But there are a handful of others ahead. More like UofA

 

[Shenexon]

Someone posted we might be in for a rude awakening looking for a new coach. I strenuously beg to differ. IMO, SU is a Top 5 job in cbb.
The bigger issue might be who wants to step in and follow a legend, should we go outside the Cuse family- which is another reason I think we probably won't. The only thing that might alter that prospect would be if JB decides to hang on a few more years, and further tarnishes his legacy. Then I believe it would be easier, and more likely, for the AD to start fresh with a new hire from outside.

I'm not sure about positioning, but think many coaches would love the fan support SU can muster. I think there will be significant interest in the job and a good team of coaches can recruit good players to SU. It's a good gig where basketball is king. The search for a new coach should be fascinating...

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Sneaky is the new scrappy

Sneaky is the new “alternative.”

 

[Zelda Zonk]

I don’t know how we can be a top 5 destination for a coach. Not considering geography and likely salary.

Top 15, given The Dome, what the brand was, the conference, and media? Sure.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

Here's a better question: if you took Hopkins's last name away and anonymously submitted a coaching candidate for our job with the same credentials / track record, would you hand the program over to a coach with the last three years he's had?

For the record, that includes:

• A 5-13 conference record in 2019, good for a last place finish [and a losing 15-17 record overall].
• A 5-21 overall record in 2020, which includes a 4-16 [11th place out of 12 teams] conference record.
• And an 11-8 record [57%] so far this year, which includes home losses to Northern Illinois, Wyoming, and a double-digit loss to UTAH VALLEY!!!

The SU fanbase would be rioting in the quad if we hired a coach with that track record. I love Hopkins, and I'm extremely appreciative of his contributions to SU as both a player and a coach. But this is a results-driven profession, and nostalgia isn't as important of an evaluative criteria as performance.

Syracuse fans would kill for the recruits/roster that ultimately blew up in Hops face. We'd all roll the dice on a team like UW 19-20. This forum would go crazy with excitement for a team like that. And if it didn't work out but 2 guys went first round I think we'd be somewhat understanding.

McDaniels and Stewart are NBA regulars and yes the NBA still picked both those guys 1st round despite the team falling apart. (Losing Green whom SU fans have obsessed over for years was part of it and Hop deserves some blame but its not all on him didn't Jay Zs nephew a NY kid who could have ended up here get charged with rape or something?es)

They lost all their talent and struggled badly the year after which was the weird covid year. But honestly how could they have had a good season in 20-21 with what happened the year before and the exodus of talent? This year they have an entire new roster with transfers and have righted the ship.

Hopkins has done a sneaky good job of developing NBA talent. If we get turned down by the 1-2 A list candidates we should target like Oats and Underwood Mike Hopkins is a good option.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

I think some of it stemmed from Shaka having an out clause in his contract with VCU that said he could leave for the SU job [and maybe 1 other program -- don't recall which] with no buy-out penalty.

Not sure why he included us, since he's not from the NE / NY, but it definitely was intriguing back then.

ACC is a better conference. Ville could pull him from Marquette. Maybe NC State could. Why not us. You might need to get him after a down season but Syracuse could lure most college coaches.

I assume he'd want a 2nd season there to not 1 and done but he'd take a top ACC job if offered it after 2023. Unless he makes a final four there or something. Hes not leaving for Pitt or BC.

 

[Bayside44]

ACC is a better conference. Ville could pull him from Marquette. Maybe NC State could. Why not us. You might need to get him after a down season but Syracuse could lure most college coaches.

I assume he'd want a 2nd season there to not 1 and done but he'd take a top ACC job if offered it after 2023. Unless he makes a final four there or something. Hes not leaving for Pitt or BC.

FWIW I believe he's from Wisconsin.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

I don’t know how we can be a top 5 destination for a coach. Not considering geography and likely salary.

Top 15, given The Dome, what the brand was, the conference, and media? Sure.

We can spend the money we have the biggest arena and the conference pays a lot and we are never going to go overboard with the football coach. Some top names might pass on following JB but that doesn't mean we aren't a big time destination. I also think the list of schools coaches would leave Syracuse for is pretty much non existant. NBA sure. If they feel the heat from the fans and can bounce to an equal program a year before we demand they get fired maybe. But if UNC fires there coach its not a certainty a guy who has us rolling would leave for them.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

FWIW I believe he's from Wisconsin.

He is. Mack was a Xavier alum and left for Lville.

Marquette isn't as good a job as the Badgers. I guess we'll see who he pulls in the next couple recruiting cycles.

 

[orangepassion]

You know Hopkins' record. Would you rather have him come back, or have it be Gerry or Red? If those are your only options—it's either going to be one of the current staff or former staff, because they're all known quantities and presumably 'gettable.'

I was actually just thinking about this. I want the best guy for the job regardless of SU ties, BUT if I had to choose between the different guys with SU ties, I'd go with Hop. Probably the best recruiter of those guys and at least he has some HC experience-Maybe he learns from the experience. If you listened to Jeff Goodman on with Waters recently, he was raving about Hop's popularity with Prep coaches.

 

[Sherman20]

I don't know about that...Duke, UNC, Kentucky, Kansas, and...SU?

It’s definitely top 10-15, simply on the basis of revenue potential. We have the largest stadium in all of college basketball by far. Gate and season ticket revenue potential is huge if you put out a good product.

 

[HoustonCuse]

Here’s an interesting question: consider JB is basically a candidate for the job for next year. If the other candidates were limited to GMac, Red, and Hop, who is your pick? JB or one of the others?

If you pick JB, you guarantee retention of the recruiting class, you know you have him for possibly 1-2 years max (assumption but probably a safe one). His resume is clearly the best, but his abilities are apparently slipping. (Question: is JBs coaching over the past 3 years superior to Hop’s? I don’t know the answer as I haven’t closely followed Hop).

The two assistants are totally unproven but younger and with unknown potential. Huge risks.

Hop has a solid gold pedigree and HC experience in which he has had great highs and terrible lows. Reputation as a top recruiter but with possibly dated east coast contacts.

Anyway, an interesting hypothetical. Who do you take from that list?

 

[kcsu]

Here’s an interesting question: consider JB is basically a candidate for the job for next year. If the other candidates were limited to GMac, Red, and Hop, who is your pick? JB or one of the others?

If you pick JB, you guarantee retention of the recruiting class, you know you have him for possibly 1-2 years max (assumption but probably a safe one). His resume is clearly the best, but his abilities are apparently slipping. (Question: is JBs coaching over the past 3 years superior to Hop’s? I don’t know the answer as I haven’t closely followed Hop).

The two assistants are totally unproven but younger and with unknown potential. Huge risks.

Hop has a solid gold pedigree and HC experience in which he has had great highs and terrible lows. Reputation as a top recruiter but with possibly dated east coast contacts.

Anyway, an interesting hypothetical. Who do you take from that list?

Hop. 2x COY. Top 10 recruiter.

 

[hoopsupstate]

I don’t know how we can be a top 5 destination for a coach. Not considering geography and likely salary.

Top 15, given The Dome, what the brand was, the conference, and media? Sure.

I think you’re correct. Top five pays over $5 million a year. That’s not SU.

 

[Alsacs]

Here’s an interesting question: consider JB is basically a candidate for the job for next year. If the other candidates were limited to GMac, Red, and Hop, who is your pick? JB or one of the others?

If you pick JB, you guarantee retention of the recruiting class, you know you have him for possibly 1-2 years max (assumption but probably a safe one). His resume is clearly the best, but his abilities are apparently slipping. (Question: is JBs coaching over the past 3 years superior to Hop’s? I don’t know the answer as I haven’t closely followed Hop).

The two assistants are totally unproven but younger and with unknown potential. Huge risks.

Hop has a solid gold pedigree and HC experience in which he has had great highs and terrible lows. Reputation as a top recruiter but with possibly dated east coast contacts.

Anyway, an interesting hypothetical. Who do you take from that list?

JB’s abilities are apparently slipping? Or the factual statement that performance and on court results have dipped has been stated. It hasn’t been a one year dip.
This year’s Senior class will have played 4 Games as a ranked top 25 team over their careers. They would be the first 4 games of their freshman season.
That is it. So to say it as JB’s apparently slipping ignores where the program has gone.

Next year’s recruiting class isn’t filled with instant impact guys.

This program needs energy. Anything that changes the status quo.

If the choices are what you outline then give me an assistant and see what they can do.

Are we trying to compete for conference titles and NCs or just be happy we have Jim Boeheim as HC.