Mike Hopkins and UW

[RF2044]

Hop was also 2x PAC 12 COY (you don’t give that any deference). One of his two down years was COVID (which I would totally dismiss). The year before he lost Quade in the second half of the year when the slide began while Jaden became a headcase. This isn’t just about Hop being a Cuse guy. He’s a deadeye recruiter and can coach

He started out well -- but I discount it somewhat because he primarily inherited a team from the pervious coach, who was a REAL deadeye recruiter, and rode that roster to initial success before things got worse once he had his own guys in the program.

Your point about whether he "can coach" is certainly debatable, given the three year decline he's orchestrated after the first two years.

There are reasons for the decline, but I don't categorically dismiss the results as you do. A one-off year can be explained by bad luck or unfortunate circumstances -- a player getting bad grades here, an injury there. But a multi-year trend is a pattern.

Hop is a great guy, but it doesn't appear that he has the chops to coach a P5 program at this stage of his developmental curve. If he's terminated by UW after this year, then he'll probably need a rehab stint [possibly at the NBA level] before he gets another P5 opportunity. Or he might be able to go down a level and stay D1.

But the notion that he can fail miserably at UW but deserves to immediately transition here is something that doesn't jibe logically. Sure, the results MIGHT be different -- but then again, maybe the won't. Because whether he "can coach" is not a given.

 

[kcsu]

Saban failed in NY. Mac wasnt to great in New England The LV coach just got fired and he was a huge success. There are very few that do well in multiple places. In my lifetime the very best hands down has been Pitino

 

[Cusefan69]

For those that want Hop, is there behind the scenes knowledge if he would even come back? Could have swore a big reason for Hop and Washington was proximity to his dad in his later years. If true has that changed? I think ADJW looks to the market but won't use a search firm. I could see lukewarm interest immediately after JB and the whole following the legend thing but I still believe feelers are sent out wide. I also believe no matter the direction, one JB tree candidate will get a further down the process 2nd interview. Whether real or not the impression to the public will be made that a JB tree candidate went far down the interview path. Whether a JB candidate earns the hire will depend on response from the market and who actually throws their hat in the ring.

 

[djcon57]

Hop was also 2x PAC 12 COY (you don’t give that any deference). One of his two down years was COVID (which I would totally dismiss). The year before he lost Quade in the second half of the year when the slide began while Jaden became a headcase. This isn’t just about Hop being a Cuse guy. He’s a deadeye recruiter and can coach

I’m confused when I see people say covid year doesn’t count.

does our sweet 16 not count then?

i get it was an odd year, but everyone had deal with the weirdness

 

[kuethstheman]

He started out well -- but I discount it somewhat because he primarily inherited a team from the pervious coach.

Actually, I think Bernie Fine was the pervious coach.

 

[AZOrange]

I’m confused when I see people say covid year doesn’t count.

does our sweet 16 not count then?

i get it was an odd year, but everyone had deal with the weirdness

It’s an anomaly year for bad things. I don’t think a 5-21 record or whatever it was has any relevance to the records he has normally. At worst he’s about a .500 coach. At best he’s a conference COY.

And I put about as much weight in S16 as that too. Means nothing

 

[DoctorBombay]

I doubt we can find a college basketball equivalent of Brady - considered by many to be the greatest of all time.

Is there really a debate about Brady? This is coming from a staunch NY Giants and NY sports fan, who detests Boston/New England teams with the heat of a 1000 suns. There simply is no question...not anymore. Tom Brady is the Greatest Of All Time.

 

[djcon57]

It’s an anomaly year for bad things. I don’t think a 5-21 record or whatever it was has any relevance to the records he has normally. At worst he’s about a .500 coach. At best he’s a conference COY.

And I put about as much weight in S16 as that too. Means nothing

Fair enough. Long as it's consistent

 

[RF2044]

Saban failed in NY. Mac wasnt to great in New England The LV coach just got fired and he was a huge success. There are very few that do well in multiple places. In my lifetime the very best hands down has been Pitino

I don't quite get where you're going with the Saban thing -- very odd analogy.

Life is also about timing. Not suggesting that he would have been inclined to come back here at that time, but just imagine if the timing of JB's stepping down coincided with Hop winning back-2-back PAC-12 COY awards. We would be doing back handsprings for his return.

But, the timing DIDN'T align, and now he's had three consecutive down years. And in the process, may have coached himself out of contention for the job here.

That's one of the reasons that the big picture is more important than cherry picking details at the exclusionary expense of not considering others.

 

[Orangezoo]

If Hopkins were ever the coach here(not saying I want him) he needs to hire someone who coaches offense and values shooting/passing. Something that has seemed to be a major weakness on his UW teams and in his recruiting.

This is a great point and a key one. He has produced solid defensive teams and certainly can recruit. Just needs the hoops equivalent of an OC.

I will say one guy I wouldn't mind seeing as an Orange Assistant is Jeremy Pope , the BA coach...

 

[Cuse181]

It’s an anomaly year for bad things. I don’t think a 5-21 record or whatever it was has any relevance to the records he has normally. At worst he’s about a .500 coach. At best he’s a conference COY.

And I put about as much weight in S16 as that too. Means nothing

Well he was unable to get a team with Isiah Stewart, Jaden Mcdaniels and Quade Green to over .500 plus his recruiting has taken a downturn since that top 10 class so I’m not sure he is what cuse needs. He had a great start but I think his COY-years may have been more so catching lightning in a bottle versus what we should expect from him.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Here's a better question: if you took Hopkins's last name away and anonymously submitted a coaching candidate for our job with the same credentials / track record, would you hand the program over to a coach with the last three years he's had?

For the record, that includes:

• A 5-13 conference record in 2019, good for a last place finish [and a losing 15-17 record overall].
• A 5-21 overall record in 2020, which includes a 4-16 [11th place out of 12 teams] conference record.
• And an 11-8 record [57%] so far this year, which includes home losses to Northern Illinois, Wyoming, and a double-digit loss to UTAH VALLEY!!!

The SU fanbase would be rioting in the quad if we hired a coach with that track record. I love Hopkins, and I'm extremely appreciative of his contributions to SU as both a player and a coach. But this is a results-driven profession, and nostalgia isn't as important of an evaluative criteria as performance.

I'm with you—mostly—but i think it's a tad different because Hopkins is more of a known quantity than some rando with the same record. You can't help but be impressed by him, he demonstrated good recruiting abilities, and he was assumed to be good enough to be named HCiW. It's arguable that the circumstances in Washington might have been difficult for anyone not named K or Few.

But i ask you a related question:

You know Hopkins' record. Would you rather have him come back, or have it be Gerry or Red? If those are your only options—it's either going to be one of the current staff or former staff, because they're all known quantities and presumably 'gettable.'

 

[Cheriehoop]

So teams like Pittsburgh?

No Wake Forest or FSU type wins nor 1 point losses to Miami type team yet either though sadly. No doubt we have bad losses but we do have some good wins comparatively. Glad Mike’s Huskies are doing better - hope you’re happy when SU has good wins too.

 

[ar inj]

I will be surprised if the next coach is not Red or Gmac or Gmac or Red. And so should you if you are an SU bball fan or an SU sports fan. SU is goin' do what SU does.

 

[RF2044]

I'm with you—mostly—but i think it's a tad different because Hopkins is more of a known quantity than some rando with the same record. You can't help but be impressed by him, he demonstrated good recruiting abilities, and he was assumed to be good enough to be named HCiW. It's arguable that the circumstances in Washington might have been difficult for anyone not named K or Few.

But i ask you a related question:

You know Hopkins' record. Would you rather have him come back, or have it be Gerry or Red? If those are your only options—it's either going to be one of the current staff or former staff, because they're all known quantities and presumably 'gettable.'

I qualify this by pointing out that setting this question up as a false dichotomy -- it is impossible for me to not envision that we'll have a plethora of more qualified candidates interested in the job when the time comes, than any current / former staff.

But if those are the only choices, then IMOO Hop is exponentially more qualified than either Red or GMac, and it isn't even close.

And despite that, he's still performing poorly at UW. So that provides insight into the quality of candidates, if we artificially and unnecessarily restrict ourselves to the "in-house only" options.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

I will be surprised if the next coach is not Red or Gmac or Gmac or Red. And so should you if you are an SU bball fan or an SU sports fan. SU is goin' do what SU does.

What is it that SU does?
I may be off, but what sport serves as the model or illustration for what SU does? Women's basketball—wasn't Hillsman from the outside? With football, Babers is from the outside. Previously, some coaches had been on the football staff, but didn't they also come from the outside and weren't alums?

I'm not sure what SU men did 47 years ago is enough to serve as a valid precedent.

It's both nice and unfortunate that all of our staff is comprised of alums. That makes for a nice continuity run, but when the recent history isn't impressive, continuity isn't as valuable.

I'd be surprised, also, if it's not Red or GMac. Because, while it's difficult to force JAB to retire, it's almost equally unpalatable to 'fire' an entire staff of loyal alums. That's kind of an ugly look. I would welcome a clean slate, but i'd also feel mighty bad about that kind of changeover.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

I qualify this by pointing out that setting this question up as a false dichotomy -- it is impossible for me to not envision that we'll have a plethora of more qualified candidates interested in the job when the time comes, than any current / former staff.

But if those are the only choices, then IMOO Hop is exponentially more qualified than either Red or GMac, and it isn't even close.

And despite that, he's still performing poorly at UW. So that provides insight into the quality of candidates, if we artificially and unnecessarily restrict ourselves to the "in-house only" options.

It's only a false dichotomy if JW inclined to go outside. I'm not presuming either way—just wondering what the 'temperature' is, or the assessment of Hopkins versus the other in-house candidates. It's about the concept of Hopkins' less-than-impressive-record vs the greater unknown, with our own assistants.

About whether Hopkins is actually proving who/what he is now or if it is about circumstances. I think it's the latter and that Hopkins would be better with us, with his local connections, with the Dome, etc. I'm hoping—whether he comes back or whether he stays at Washington or where ever he goes—that he's super successful.

[What defense(s) does he run at Washington? I don't think i've seen more than a few minutes of his games since he went there.]

 

[Dave]

Oh……….my…………God. Please make it stop.

 

[hoopsupstate]

Shaka Smart has turned Marquette around and he was just ok at Texas. All situations are different. He is still a name to remember.

 

[two3zone]

No Wake Forest or FSU type wins nor 1 point losses to Miami type team yet either though sadly. No doubt we have bad losses but we do have some good wins comparatively. Glad Mike’s Huskies are doing better - hope you’re happy when SU has good wins too.

God forbid someone posts a one word post with a fact, and you question their fandom, especially someone who is a regular and one of the best fans on here.

 

[RF2044]

Shaka Smart has turned Marquette around and he was just ok at Texas. All situations are different. He is still a name to remember.

And Shaka Smart had an extended run of success prior to Texas, leading VCU on several deep tournament runs, achieving top 25 national ranking [no small feat at VCU], and also to a final four.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Sneaky athletic too amirite

Sneaky is the new scrappy

 

[richmondcuse03]

I have no doubt Hop would recruit at a consistent top 10-15 level if back at syracuse. In-game coaching? I dont watch a lot of Washington games so would defer to all of you. But if it's talent that we're after, Hop back in Syracuse is a no brainer.

 

[two3zone]

I have no doubt Hop would recruit at a consistent top 10-15 level if back at syracuse. In-game coaching? I dont watch a lot of Washington games so would defer to all of you. But if it's talent that we're after, Hop back in Syracuse is a no brainer.

Bringing talent to Washington has been kind of an issue since McDaniels, that said, I think if he was here he’d be getting a lot of talent. It’s a shame the McDaniels camp isn’t a fan of hop.

 

[rrlbees]

I have no doubt Hop would recruit at a consistent top 10-15 level if back at syracuse. In-game coaching? I dont watch a lot of Washington games so would defer to all of you. But if it's talent that we're after, Hop back in Syracuse is a no brainer.

That’s where I’m at. I think he’s get his east coast recruiting chops back and reignite the contacts he had. I have no inside info but my gut feel is he will get the first call when JB decides to hang them up.