Mike Hopkins and UW

[Cusefan0307]

FWIW I believe he's from Wisconsin.

Yup. From Madison.

 

[nyucuse]

I think you’re correct. Top five pays over $5 million a year. That’s not SU.

I don’t know how we can be a top 5 destination for a coach. Not considering geography and likely salary.

Top 15, given The Dome, what the brand was, the conference, and media? Sure.

There is a clear top 4. After that there are 10 or so jobs which are tier 1A - which SU is clearly one of, in my view. The argument that location is a hindrance is nonsense in my view. How many top schools are in massive Metro areas? If anything, the University is within a reasonable distance of several important recruiting hotbeds. Our facilities, history, and cachet (historically at least) clearly position us in the very top tier below the top 4 – assuming we have the right coach and vision to maximise the benefits. Now if the University does not want to pay top dollar, that of course impacts the ability to hire the right coach. But if they open up the wallet, there is no reason why this job cannot attract a top top tier candidate.

 

[Cusefan0307]

There is a clear top 4. After that there are 10 or so jobs which are tier 1A - which SU is clearly one of, in my view. The argument that location is a hindrance is nonsense in my view. How many top schools are in massive Metro areas? If anything, the University is within a reasonable distance of several important recruiting hotbeds. Our facilities, history, and cachet (historically at least) clearly position us in the very top tier below the top 4 – assuming we have the right coach and vision to maximise the benefits. Now if the University does not want to pay top dollar, that of course impacts the ability to hire the right coach. But if they open up the wallet, there is no reason why this job cannot attract a top top tier candidate.

One of those top 4 jobs is paying its current coach just 2 million a year.

 

[Fat tire 13]

If we are going to talk about money, there is some good starting info on Hopkins

UW Huskies, coach Mike Hopkins agree to six-year, $17.5 million contract extension

On the eve of their first NCAA tournament in eight years, the Washington Huskies rewarded Mike Hopkins with a new six-year contract. It’s believed Hopkins’ new deal will increase his annual salary to a number more on par with the...

www.seattletimes.com

He will make $2.5-$3 million/year, and there is a $3 million buyout if he leaves before March 2023

Not sure how accurate this article is below, but if we consider this a top 5-20 job, a salary in between $3-4 million should do the trick.

The 25 Highest-Paid College Basketball Coaches Are Rolling in Cash

College basketball is a very lucrative sports for coaches that bring home titles, as the top 25 highest-earners will tell you.

fanbuzz.com

Besides the top 5 coaches ($5-10 million), there seems to be a fair amount of parity. Lots of guys in the $2-4 million range.

If money was the only factor, I imagine Hopkins would be fine making ~$3 million with the lower cost of living in Syracuse vs. Seattle. And if Syracuse doesn't want to pay that amount, we will almost certainly be stuck with Red or GMAC.

 

[HoustonCuse]

JB’s abilities are apparently slipping? Or the factual statement that performance and on court results have dipped has been stated. It hasn’t been a one year dip.
This year’s Senior class will have played 4 Games as a ranked top 25 team over their careers. They would be the first 4 games of their freshman season.
That is it. So to say it as JB’s apparently slipping ignores where the program has gone.

Next year’s recruiting class isn’t filled with instant impact guys.

This program needs energy. Anything that changes the status quo.

If the choices are what you outline then give me an assistant and see what they can do.

Are we trying to compete for conference titles and NCs or just be happy we have Jim Boeheim as HC.

Dude, you are having a hard time with your emotions. Just answer the question. Or don’t.

 

[supp]

If we are going to talk about money, there is some good starting info on Hopkins

UW Huskies, coach Mike Hopkins agree to six-year, $17.5 million contract extension

On the eve of their first NCAA tournament in eight years, the Washington Huskies rewarded Mike Hopkins with a new six-year contract. It’s believed Hopkins’ new deal will increase his annual salary to a number more on par with the...

www.seattletimes.com

He will make $2.5-$3 million/year, and there is a $3 million buyout if he leaves before March 2023

Not sure how accurate this article is below, but if we consider this a top 5-20 job, a salary in between $3-4 million should do the trick.

The 25 Highest-Paid College Basketball Coaches Are Rolling in Cash

College basketball is a very lucrative sports for coaches that bring home titles, as the top 25 highest-earners will tell you.

fanbuzz.com

Besides the top 5 coaches ($5-10 million), there seems to be a fair amount of parity. Lots of guys in the $2-4 million range.

If money was the only factor, I imagine Hopkins would be fine making ~$3 million with the lower cost of living in Syracuse vs. Seattle. And if Syracuse doesn't want to pay that amount, we will almost certainly be stuck with Red or GMAC.

Boeheim is making around $3.5 million/year just from SU. Most of the top coaches have a contract with the school and then side money, sometimes in the millions, from other streams (shoe companies, camps, endorsements, etc.) Boeheim may well be in the $5 million range when all is said or done. Hopkins or anyone else is not at Boeheim's level but I don't think we'll have trouble putting together an attractive compensation package for the next coach.

 

[RF2044]

I agree with the majority of what you say here. I have completely reversed my position on Hop, I thought he was going to be a great head coach and the results are sort of bafflingly weird, enough so that I don't want to see him as the head coach of SU. But I also think that his ability to get talent, at least on the east coast, cannot be understated.

This all comes down to what you think the program IS. If you're looking to sustain perreniel 18-13 regular seasons like the last 7+ years then I don't see any reason why Hop can't do that. He might not be the game coach that Boeheim is (was, actually), but I'm pretty certain he'd have a lot better talent to work with than what we've seen the last 7+ year and I think that would offset his coaching limitations.

Now, if you want to achieve the success this program had for the first 38 years of Boeheim, look somewhere else.

I want to look somewhere else.

[it pains me to say this because I really love Hop as a person. I know him as being genuine, energetic, incredibly enthusiastic, thoughtful, giving, and engaged. I hate that I even wrote this]

Great post, Mason.

And it should be required reading for anyone who thinks that Hop's job performance at UW warrants him getting the job here -- or for that matter, ANY of the assistant coaches currently on staff. Unfortunately, there seem to be a lot of fans who can't view the situation with the same objective intellectual honesty that you do, even as a self-proclaimed Hopkins fan.

I'm amazed at how far the expectations of some members of the fanbase have slipped. And it all comes down to what your expectations are for the program moving forward post-JB. If we want to maintain the status quo of the last 7+ years, then the in-house candidates will certainly get us to 18-13 [using your example].

But why on earth would we aspire to that?

Look, we all love Mike Hopkins. I believe that his time at UW will serve as a learning experience, and he'll have a long career as a coach and make great money. He's got an unbelievable personality, and a boundless amount of enthusiastic energy.

But to turn this program around, we need substance AND style. And sadly, painfully, the UW track record has shown that he isn't the right guy for our program, at this pivotal juncture of the program's history.

We're at a crossroads -- we can either embrace mediocrity in the interest of avoiding change, or we can look outside the program for the best, most qualified candidate we can find.

That's what we should do, that's the type of candidate we need to hire, and that's the type of candidate we WILL hire when the time comes.

 

[orangefog]

Great post, Mason.

And it should be required reading for anyone who thinks that Hop's job performance at UW warrants him getting the job here -- or for that matter, ANY of the assistant coaches currently on staff. Unfortunately, there seem to be a lot of fans who can't view the situation with the same objective intellectual honesty that you do, even as a self-proclaimed Hopkins fan.

I'm amazed at how far the expectations of some members of the fanbase have slipped. And it all comes down to what your expectations are for the program moving forward post-JB. If we want to maintain the status quo of the last 7+ years, then the in-house candidates will certainly get us to 18-13 [using your example].

But why on earth would we aspire to that?

Look, we all love Mike Hopkins. I believe that his time at UW will serve as a learning experience, and he'll have a long career as a coach and make great money. He's got an unbelievable personality, and a boundless amount of enthusiastic energy.

But to turn this program around, we need substance AND style. And sadly, painfully, the UW track record has shown that he isn't the right guy for our program, at this pivotal juncture of the program's history.

We're at a crossroads -- we can either embrace mediocrity in the interest of avoiding change, or we can look outside the program for the best, most qualified candidate we can find.

That's what we should do, that's the type of candidate we need to hire, and that's the type of candidate we WILL hire when the time comes.

That's why I trust John Wildhack, this is his legacy. He isn't going to just go with the next Syracuse guy up, he wants this program to win more championships.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

That's why I trust John Wildhack, this is his legacy. He isn't going to just go with the next Syracuse guy up, he wants this program to win more championships.

I think that some of the new football hires which appear to be home runs bodes well for the direction of the basketball program. If JW isn't happy with the status quo then change direction. Hopefully basketball will be a home run as well.

 

[sufandu]

Is there really a debate about Brady? This is coming from a staunch NY Giants and NY sports fan, who detests Boston/New England teams with the heat of a 1000 suns. There simply is no question...not anymore. Tom Brady is the Greatest Of All Time.

I think with a game like football that has so many moving pieces there can almost always be debate. I would not debate the term most accomplished. Similarly, Bill Russell is the most accomplished basketball player of all time. I would have a difficult time putting him ahead of Jordan as the GOAT.

 

[RF2044]

That's why I trust John Wildhack, this is his legacy. He isn't going to just go with the next Syracuse guy up, he wants this program to win more championships.

Agreed -- this will be the defining aspect of JW's tenure as the AD. Why would he settle or artificially constrain the candidate pool instead of making a hire that positions the team to be successful... and in turn, makes HIM look good for making the hire?

 

[supp]

That's why I trust John Wildhack, this is his legacy. He isn't going to just go with the next Syracuse guy up, he wants this program to win more championships.

The continuity hire is the easy, even expected, decision. It will be hard for anyone to fault Wildhack for going with someone in the family, even if it turns out to be a mistake. But hopefully he's not so risk-averse and does an actual national search.

 

[orangefog]

The continuity hire is the easy, even expected, decision. It will be hard for anyone to fault Wildhack for going with someone in the family, even if it turns out to be a mistake. But hopefully he's not so risk-averse and does an actual national search.

Yeah, I don't even care if it is a mistake, as long as he does an expansive search.

 

[Orangefizz]

Which coaching staff would you prefer? I absolutely do not think Syracuse will go outside the family for its next coach. In fact it wouldn’t surprise me if JB decided to retire August 1 (2022 or 2023) to force JW to hire an alum.

a. Mike Hopkins (GMAC/Griff/Pope)

b. Red Autry (Greenberg/GMac/Griff)

c. Gerry McNamara (Welsh/Griff/Pope)

 

[kcsu]

A

 

[nyucuse]

Which coaching staff would you prefer? I absolutely do not think Syracuse will go outside the family for its next coach. In fact it wouldn’t surprise me if JB decided to retire August 1 (2022 or 2023) to force JW to hire an alum.

a. Mike Hopkins (GMAC/Griff/Pope)

b. Red Autry (Greenberg/GMac/Griff)

c. Gerry McNamara (Welsh/Griff/Pope)

He might. But in that case, it would be up to JW to ensure that the new coach is on a tight leash, on an interim basis to prove his worth. Think Padgitt at Ville. Let's see...

 

[Zelda Zonk]

There is a clear top 4. After that there are 10 or so jobs which are tier 1A - which SU is clearly one of, in my view. The argument that location is a hindrance is nonsense in my view. How many top schools are in massive Metro areas? If anything, the University is within a reasonable distance of several important recruiting hotbeds. Our facilities, history, and cachet (historically at least) clearly position us in the very top tier below the top 4 – assuming we have the right coach and vision to maximise the benefits. Now if the University does not want to pay top dollar, that of course impacts the ability to hire the right coach. But if they open up the wallet, there is no reason why this job cannot attract a top top tier candidate.

My comment about “geography” wasn’t related to “massive metro areas.” It wasn’t even related to recruiting. Just a basic lifestyle question. If you’re a person making three million dollars a year, independent of all else, where do you want to live? Syracuse, NY is not going to rank very high.

 

[miamicuse]

One other point about a "continuity hire", is whether a new continuity HC will be able to flex their muscles with JB's influence. MH himself said during an interview about his UW opportunity was something that allows him to build something uniquely his, and had he stay at Syracuse, his job would be a protector and caretaker of JB's legacy. I don't think we would want someone coaching with the "what would JB do?" mindset. I think if an assistant gets the job it's important for JB to step away to give whoever succeeds him plenty of room to operate.

That's why this transition is going to be so challenging and someone like Rick Pitino to come back for 2-3 years is a great way to do it.

 

[RF2044]

My comment about “geography” wasn’t related to “massive metro areas.” It wasn’t even related to recruiting. Just a basic lifestyle question. If you’re a person making three million dollars a year, independent of all else, where do you want to live? Syracuse, NY is not going to rank very high.

Maybe. What you're saying is fair, but it will all vary by individual tastes.

And the counter-point to your position is that $3M [just using that number] stretches a helluva lot further in CNY than it would in a "massive metro area" like NYC, Boston, LA, etc.

Which could be attractive to some candidates. A million dollar home in Syracuse extended area is going to be 5 times bigger than a house of equivalent value in Boston, 10 times bigger than a house of equivalent value in Los Angeles, etc.

 

[Orangezoo]

So here is a question around Hop. Does his current job/venue play into the success cap and challenges? For instance basketball is basketball I get it. That said the familiarity of SU, it's facilities, the community, bond with former players and current assistants etc- I wonder if being able to have those things we don't talk about when operating in a totally different environment turn an 18-13 coach into a top 25 program coach.

UW has never been a very good hoops job- had some talented kids for sure but never seemed a program with enough stability and juice overall to be a contender.

You bring a guy back to his coaching stomping grounds where the little things, comforts that were gone at UW return.

It's not necessarily an analytical thing and it's a hidden element of success. The East Coast/ Eastern half of the U.S. is still the hoops hotbed.

These "human" intangible elements that come with being home can impact any person in their profession.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Last I checked most college towns aren’t in massive metro areas anyway. It’s the old argument why have so many rust belt universities been good at sports for so long while sun belt cities have largely been awful.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

My comment about “geography” wasn’t related to “massive metro areas.” It wasn’t even related to recruiting. Just a basic lifestyle question. If you’re a person making three million dollars a year, independent of all else, where do you want to live? Syracuse, NY is not going to rank very high.

Outside of a couple months a year, what is wrong with living in Upstate NY? Beautiful area with awesome lakes and mountains within a couple hours, extremely affordable housing, reasonably drivable to major metro areas, good grade schools and colleges...

 

[Cusefan0307]

Outside of a couple months a year, what is wrong with living in Upstate NY? Beautiful area with awesome lakes and mountains within a couple hours, extremely affordable housing, reasonably drivable to major metro areas, good grade schools and colleges...

Apparently it’s a worse place to live than Storrs, Madison, Lansing, Bloomington you know like most other college towns...

 

[nyucuse]

My comment about “geography” wasn’t related to “massive metro areas.” It wasn’t even related to recruiting. Just a basic lifestyle question. If you’re a person making three million dollars a year, independent of all else, where do you want to live? Syracuse, NY is not going to rank very high.

Or Lansing or Kansas or Kentucky? I think it's a minor consideration. On the football side I hear repeatedly what a cultural Mecca Tuscaloosa is, or Athens, or anywhere in the Big 12... The program is the key. Weather or cultural considerations are very minor in the broader context.

 

[SUOrangeSU]

Good debate in here but Mike is going to interview for that position and honestly, might be 1a in position for it. JW knows Mike can recruit in our area. He knows this. JW wants recruiting to pick up (don't we all)