New pocket???

[Laxfanshutt]

 

[dollarbill44]

I won't comment on the specifics because I never had the opportunity to play organized lax, but something has to be done when the ball can stay in a crosse during a helicopter, which I saw in a game last weekend.

 

[cuselaxss26]

Honestly does anyone take them seriously now days? Really think their dumb changes woll
make it? Ima call anyway just cause always enjoy giving poop to someone who deserves it.

 

[PhatOrange]

Might as well use a girls stick. Stupid

 

[PhatOrange]

I won't comment on the specifics because I never had the opportunity to play organized lax, but something has to be done when the ball can stay in a crosse during a helicopter, which I saw in a game last weekend.

Could go back to a wider head like the old superlight 2’s but the ball could still sit deep.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

You mean they want to make defense important again?

No more bulldozing your way through a triple team and holding onto the ball.

 

[ForCuseSake]

It’d be great if they could settle on stick dimensions that turn back the clock on how much lacrosses has become like football (bigger, faster, stronger specialists).

 

[Zepharus]

Great Idea... put the ball on the turf more and have the players scrap for it. MUCH better...

 

[BomberOrange]

Great Idea... put the ball on the turf more and have the players scrap for it. MUCH better...

Back in the 80's 90's pockets were smaller and the ball hit the ground a lot less. Stick skills were emphasized in that era.

 

[Hoo's That]

This has been said more than once by a lot of folks - No offset and completely straight sidewalls on top and on the pocket side (no pinch) that are no more than 1.5" tall, i.e., a 1970s stick.

Oh, and for those who say the manufacturers would rebel, they wouldn't because of all the replacement sticks they'd sell. There was a thread about this on the old Laxpower.

 

[wgdsr]

This has been said more than once by a lot of folks - No offset and completely straight sidewalls on top and on the pocket side (no pinch) that are no more than 1.5" tall, i.e., a 1970s stick.

View attachment 228007

Oh, and for those who say the manufacturers would rebel, they wouldn't because of all the replacement sticks they'd sell. There was a thread about this on the old Laxpower.

a lot of very old folks, maybe.

they're selling replacement sticks, anyway. going 20 or 30 or 50 years backwards is not progress.

 

[PhatOrange]

a lot of very old folks, maybe.

they're selling replacement sticks, anyway. going 20 or 30 or 50 years backwards is not progress.

Change for change sake isn’t progress either though. Manufactures just started pushing boundaries on sticks and now rules have to change all the time because of it. Sometimes if it ain’t broke don’t fix it.

I don’t see anything really wrong with the current sticks…
A few years ago the ball never came out and now it seems like it does a little more. It’s fine by me.

One unintended thing that I find amusing is that in trying to take the body check out of the game kids are now being taught to slide body inside because the offensive players run through stick checks and you can’t dislodge the ball that way.

Would love to see todays kids play with an SLII

 

[wgdsr]

Change for change sake isn’t progress either though. Manufactures just started pushing boundaries on sticks and now rules have to change all the time because of it. Sometimes if it ain’t broke don’t fix it.

I don’t see anything really wrong with the current sticks…
A few years ago the ball never came out and now it seems like it does a little more. It’s fine by me. But one unintended thing that I find amusing is that in trying to take the body check out of the game kids are now being taught to slide body inside because the offensive players run through stick checks and you can’t dislodge the ball that way.

Would love to see todays kids play with an SLII

seems to me we got one good rollback a number of years ago and the game's in pretty good shape. don't really see how rules have to change now all the time. you know how rules get changed? one person suggests it in the suggestion box, one of a panel of 7 or 10 folks likes the idea, the 7 or 10 people vote on it, and... voila! new rule for most everyone in america. no scientific poll, no nada.

personally, i don't see any sea change on how lacrosse has been coached. brian karalunas might like a word with those that have.

 

[swish7]

Pocket depth has been unchanged since I was a kid. Not clear to me what they think this accomplishes.

 

[PhatOrange]

seems to me we got one good rollback a number of years ago and the game's in pretty good shape. don't really see how rules have to change now all the time. you know how rules get changed? one person suggests it in the suggestion box, one of a panel of 7 or 10 folks likes the idea, the 7 or 10 people vote on it, and... voila! new rule for most everyone in america. no scientific poll, no nada.

personally, i don't see any sea change on how lacrosse has been coached. brian karalunas might like a word with those that have.

Rules get changed ‘all the time’ regarding head measurements and they just outlawed the gait defensive head last season. Banning heads, changing width measurement rules, shooting strings etc, even a few times over the past 20 years is a lot imo. Not like shaft length or pocket depth has changed; same rule since the dawn.

They had to add rules because the ball gets stuck in the heads, from faceoffs to field heads.

Coaching is region specific and maybe the coaching is just catching up to where I am, but I personally believe it’s a direct result of players going through triple teams around the crease and the ball is still in their stick. Of course depending on the region like CNY, sliding body (or clearing crease) had always been the way.

 

[oldpinepoint]

I’ve been watching a lot of high school lax lately and I’ve been appalled at how the ball doesn’t come out of the stick. I can’t tell you how many hard checks on the stick I saw and the ball doesn’t even move. Probably a change that is overdue. I long for the days of my brine super light II, or my STX Excalibur.

 

[wgdsr]

Rules get changed ‘all the time’ regarding head measurements and they just outlawed the gait defensive head last season. Banning heads, changing width measurement rules, shooting strings etc, even a few times over the past 20 years is a lot imo. Not like shaft length or pocket depth has changed; same rule since the dawn.

They had to add rules because the ball gets stuck in the heads, from faceoffs to field heads.

Coaching is region specific and maybe the coaching is just catching up to where I am, but I personally believe it’s a direct result of players going through triple teams around the crease and the ball is still in their stick. Of course depending on the region like CNY, sliding body (or clearing crease) had always been the way.

i guess i'm a little unclear where you are on this and what we're debating. you're ok with it now as is and new proposed rule is stupid, or not?

they've changed dimension limitations once to my knowledge. '16... phase in to '18 for nfhs. could be wrong. when was the other time?

are you advocating change again (70s sticks?) or no? if yay, do you believe this is going to end the tinkering of rule changes?

as far as hitting, i see far less of it nowadays. mostly as a result of continuous rule changes and emphasis on safety. as about every hit gets a penalty, not worth it. i don't see some jump in hitting at the college level, either.

 

[PhatOrange]

i guess i'm a little unclear where you are on this and what we're debating. you're ok with it now as is and new proposed rule is stupid, or not?

they've changed dimension limitations once to my knowledge. '16... phase in to '18 for nfhs. could be wrong. when was the other time?

are you advocating change again (70s sticks?) or no? if yay, do you believe this is going to end the tinkering of rule changes?

as far as hitting, i see far less of it nowadays. mostly as a result of continuous rule changes and emphasis on safety. as about every hit gets a penalty, not worth it. i don't see some jump in hitting at the college level, either.

I think making the pocket more shallow is stupid.

I'm ok with the sticks the way they are but wouldn't be opposed to widening them (and/or maybe reducing the sidewall.) But I'm fine with not changing them at all. I like an offensive game.

But the ball doesn't come out as much as it would've in the 80s and early 90s. Narrowing the headss changed the game. It was extremely difficult to take the ball away from Tim Nelson and I couldn't imagine him dodging from X today with a modern head. Forget it.

 

[wgdsr]

I think making the pocket more shallow is stupid.

I'm ok with the sticks the way they are but wouldn't be opposed to widening them (and/or maybe reducing the sidewall.) But I'm fine with not changing them at all. I like an offensive game.

But the ball doesn't come out as much as it would've in the 80s and early 90s. Narrowing the sticks changed the game. It was extremely difficult to take the ball away from Tim Nelson and I couldn't imagine him dodging from X today with a modern head. Forget it.

ok, gotcha. btw, sticks out of the box are basically 3 1/8 to 3 1/4. imo, that was a great rule change as they'd gotten to 2 5/8, which is essentially ~ the diameter of the ball. it's made a big difference. almost zero tolerance to a half to 3/4 inch.

and to me, it's much better than the sticks of yesteryear, for the game in particular. i see dozens of stick checks per game causing the ball on the ground. not as many as the old days, but that's a good thing (imo). check out some of the gb #s in those old games.

next time i see timmy, i'll tell him u said that. but he's lost a half step, those now big, fast dudes might be able to keep up now.

 

[swish7]

I’ve been watching a lot of high school lax lately and I’ve been appalled at how the ball doesn’t come out of the stick. I can’t tell you how many hard checks on the stick I saw and the ball doesn’t even move. Probably a change that is overdue. I long for the days of my brine super light II, or my STX Excalibur.

The ball gets checked out of my 10th graders stick all the time. He stops cradling and lacks awareness. He is especially victim to trail checks.

Stick technology helps. The mesh these days is incredible. Old school hard mesh is easy to dislodge the ball from. This new mesh supports the ball better through contact.

As well, some kids understand how to protect the stick, and/or absorb contact. An on-stick check shouldn't be some guarantee the ball is dislodged.

At my kids HS in FL, many others are susceptible to losing the ball. They are football kids and try to run through 3 people all the time. They lose the ball 90% of the time they do it. I hate watching this, FYI.

Yet, the star of the team, can do the same without losing it. He is super shifty, great feet and hands and never stops cradling.

 

[cuselaxss26]

Kids are bigger stronger smarter and with help of mesh n heads need to land check completely to dislodge it. How will ball dropping on ground more help or grow the game? Also not a lot of defenders these days stick check much or try to dislodge ball. This be a pointless change. Really talented strong guys still won’t drop ball. Think if anything need to let defense be more physical and stop calling ticky tacky flags cause something looked bad but was legit.

 

[ClvrUsrnm]

Kids are bigger stronger smarter and with help of mesh n heads need to land check completely to dislodge it. How will ball dropping on ground more help or grow the game? Also not a lot of defenders these days stick check much or try to dislodge ball. This be a pointless change. Really talented strong guys still won’t drop ball. Think if anything need to let defense be more physical and stop calling ticky tacky flags cause something looked bad but was legit.

Defenders don’t stick check anymore because the friggin’ ball doesn’t come out of the stick. That’s the whole point.

 

[DoctahLexus]

I think making the pocket more shallow is stupid.

I'm ok with the sticks the way they are but wouldn't be opposed to widening them (and/or maybe reducing the sidewall.) But I'm fine with not changing them at all. I like an offensive game.

But the ball doesn't come out as much as it would've in the 80s and early 90s. Narrowing the sticks changed the game. It was extremely difficult to take the ball away from Tim Nelson and I couldn't imagine him dodging from X today with a modern head. Forget it.

What’s crazy is how much wider they already are than the heads from 10-12 years ago. I used STX proton power heads and their variations all through high school and they were insanely narrow compared to the minimum width required now. And before that I had a cheaper STX “primer” which may have been even more narrow. Before that at a young age I used a goofy head from brine called the “pulse” that was the narrowest of them all to the point that it looked like the ball wasn’t going to fall out when you turn it upside down. Trying to catch with those really trained your eye hand coordination.

Put a bag of a pocket on any of those heads and that ball would never come out. And it was the same pocket size then so guys absolutely did that. The worst era of the ball not coming out is in the rearview mirror. These wide heads today make it easier to dislodge than 10-12 years ago. I don’t want to make it any easier. We still have guys putting up high CT numbers.

 

[ForCuseSake]

Kids are bigger stronger smarter and with help of mesh n heads need to land check completely to dislodge it. How will ball dropping on ground more help or grow the game? Also not a lot of defenders these days stick check much or try to dislodge ball. This be a pointless change. Really talented strong guys still won’t drop ball. Think if anything need to let defense be more physical and stop calling ticky tacky flags cause something looked bad but was legit.

It may help grow the game by trying to level the playing field of today's kooky youth sports culture.

I've seen it across many youth sports programs - adults weeding out kids as young as 8-10 years old because they've decided the kid is likely not athletic enough to compete at the club/varsity level.

When I say "weeding out", I mean coaches who put almost all of their attention on kids they deem athletic. So the kids who may be new to sports (or new to lax) get less attention and guidance to learn the sport. It's like everybody read Malcolm Gladwell and thinks they're the next Bill Belichick.

I've seen it in both girls & boys youth lax in a town that isn't anywhere close to being as lax obsessed as the usual suspects (e.g. Victor, Camillus, etc.).

Standardizing stick width and sidewall dimensions (I'm less worried about pocket depth) helps put a premium back on stick skills. Kids who grow up naturally bigger, faster, stronger usually develop their stick skills at a slower rate because they can rely on their superior size/athleticism during development.

Kids who are smaller or less athletic and develop elite stick skills will have a chance to be contributors despite not being 6'2 215lbs.

(I know guys smaller than 6'2 still can dominate the sport; just exaggerating to make a point)

 

[cuselaxss26]

I don’t think anything wrong with sticks now. Think kids start so much younger and there so many more programs and good coaches that really help kids get amazing stick skills. I still see ball knocked out of some of best players. Don’t think this is aspect of game we need to change. Guys should be taking body more setting up the stick checks. Stick checks to keep ur guy at distance and from getting in close or to beat ya. That kid from lehigh how many cause turnovers did he have? Over 40-50 in just this year? As said just isn’t a lot of take away defenders now days compared to before. That isn’t how kids get coached usually now. Their coached to play body sound defense. Not saying i like it but just saying don’t think this is something to go for. Guys are just gonna be good specially if they work really hard at stick skills. Plus ball on ground more will result in more hits(people gonna try lay dude out) result in either injury or them cracking down even more on contact.