Offensive problems

[br801]

Where you been Skippy?

He's been all over the hoops board again ever since he found out that Alex Jones is a Georgetown fan.

 

[SoBeCuse]

I was surprised JB didn't make that adjustment at halftime. I half think he was okay with us losing this one.

I sure hope this isn't the case but Gillon in the post game interviews said he was confused as to what to do and how to handle SCar's defense. It shouldn't be rocket science and maybe only Gillon was feeling this way, but, it also leads me to believe that maybe there was no solid gameplan on how to run good offense being implemented for the players before the game and in terms of in game adjustments. It's not like Gillon has never played a good M2M team before. I'm looking forward to seeing if things improve against Wisconsin, another good M2M team arguably more skilled than SCar.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

He's been all over the hoops board again ever since he found out that Alex Jones is a Georgetown fan.

Thought for sure he agreed to a self-imposed mini vacation...

And heard a rumor of a non self-imposed break...

 

[orangefan13]

it was self imposed might not be watching if trump lost.
But its basketball season once again.

 

[br801]

Thought for sure he agreed to a self-imposed mini vacation...

And heard a rumor of a non self-imposed break...

Yeah, I heard it was something like when Jordan "retired" to play baseball.

 

[orangefan13]

thanks its good to be back. man I love basketball season. Awesome to be a dangerous team again.

 

[cuseinseattle]

Saturday's loss to South Carolina was a deflating kick to the nuts. We sucked--and while USC's defense certainly had a lot to do with it, it was discouraging that we also shot ourselves in the foot a couple of important ways. Namely:

1. Our point guards sucked -- the flat out stunk up the joint. I know that some will point to how Howard played at the beginning of the second half to counter this claim, but really--he was generally poor. And Gillon looked like a deer in the headlights--he couldn't get the ball out of his hands fast enough. I hope that this was just big game jitters and that he'll settle down, otherwise he's going to be parked upon the pine if he can't be counted upon to deliver. These guys are BOTH capable of playing better than they did against South Carolina, and we need them to both be better. Some of those Gillon drives, he left his feet with nowhere to go. If you're not confident about making a play or taking a shot, then don't try to do too much. And it drives me nuts that both of these guys drive into the teeth of the defense and then make passes backwards to guys like Coleman and Chukwu who can't do anything with the ball there even if they catch it cleanly. Enough. Make no mistake, both of these guys stunk the joint out on Saturday, which contributed heavily to our loss, and also feeds into my second point...
2. Thus far, we display zero cohesion in terms of team offensive play -- Something that's worried me in the four admittedly impressive offensive early games we had was that everything we've seen thus far has been one-on-one, with not much ball movement. There's too much reliance in our offense on guys getting the ball, slowing down, and then trying to individually create their own shot [even a big like Taurean Thompson is guilty of this]. You can get away with that against lesser opponents. And it isn't difficult to make shots when you're up 20. But when the game's on the line, the team needs to function as one, otherwise things bog down. And to date, our execution of half court offensive sets has been subpar. Our point guards did us no favors with their play on Saturday, either, but that was only a symptom of the larger problem. If we are going to rely upon Lydon and White to have to create their own shots, then we're going to struggle all year long. The points guards simply have to do a better job of running the team's half court offense, and the team has to do a better job of finding the open man and making slick interior passes. Move the rock around.
3. Our free throw shooting sucks -- what's new? This seems to be a perennial problem. The four in a row that Frank missed when we were down 6 really hampered our ability to come back. And he wasn't the only one.
4. Missed bunnies --in a game where points were tough to come by, we pissed away a ton of scoring opportunities within the shadow of the basket. Can't afford to do that. I'm looking at you Tyler Roberson. I don't expect Chukwu to be much of a factor on offense, but when our guys get the ball at point blank range of the rim, they have to convert, or get fouled.

#2 worries me the most--by FAR--but we'll need to clean up ALL of these issues, or Tuesday's going to be another rough outing.

Saturday's loss to South Carolina was a deflating kick to the nuts. We sucked--and while USC's defense certainly had a lot to do with it, it was discouraging that we also shot ourselves in the foot a couple of important ways. Namely:

1. Our point guards sucked -- the flat out stunk up the joint. I know that some will point to how Howard played at the beginning of the second half to counter this claim, but really--he was generally poor. And Gillon looked like a deer in the headlights--he couldn't get the ball out of his hands fast enough. I hope that this was just big game jitters and that he'll settle down, otherwise he's going to be parked upon the pine if he can't be counted upon to deliver. These guys are BOTH capable of playing better than they did against South Carolina, and we need them to both be better. Some of those Gillon drives, he left his feet with nowhere to go. If you're not confident about making a play or taking a shot, then don't try to do too much. And it drives me nuts that both of these guys drive into the teeth of the defense and then make passes backwards to guys like Coleman and Chukwu who can't do anything with the ball there even if they catch it cleanly. Enough. Make no mistake, both of these guys stunk the joint out on Saturday, which contributed heavily to our loss, and also feeds into my second point...
2. Thus far, we display zero cohesion in terms of team offensive play -- Something that's worried me in the four admittedly impressive offensive early games we had was that everything we've seen thus far has been one-on-one, with not much ball movement. There's too much reliance in our offense on guys getting the ball, slowing down, and then trying to individually create their own shot [even a big like Taurean Thompson is guilty of this]. You can get away with that against lesser opponents. And it isn't difficult to make shots when you're up 20. But when the game's on the line, the team needs to function as one, otherwise things bog down. And to date, our execution of half court offensive sets has been subpar. Our point guards did us no favors with their play on Saturday, either, but that was only a symptom of the larger problem. If we are going to rely upon Lydon and White to have to create their own shots, then we're going to struggle all year long. The points guards simply have to do a better job of running the team's half court offense, and the team has to do a better job of finding the open man and making slick interior passes. Move the rock around.
3. Our free throw shooting sucks -- what's new? This seems to be a perennial problem. The four in a row that Frank missed when we were down 6 really hampered our ability to come back. And he wasn't the only one.
4. Missed bunnies --in a game where points were tough to come by, we pissed away a ton of scoring opportunities within the shadow of the basket. Can't afford to do that. I'm looking at you Tyler Roberson. I don't expect Chukwu to be much of a factor on offense, but when our guys get the ball at point blank range of the rim, they have to convert, or get fouled.

#2 worries me the most--by FAR--but we'll need to clean up ALL of these issues, or Tuesday's going to be another rough outing.

Great post RF. I'm attempting to pump the breaks on the sky is falling myself since it was just one game. I'm not saying that is what you are doing. The one thing I disagree on is the importance of #1 vs #2. I think #2 will sort itself out since we have people that will end up with roles and with the amount of new kids we have there is going to be some improvement over the first 30-45 days worth of games in my opinion, especially as kids get used to playing together in games. My bigger concern is how lost Battle looked and how bad Gillon was (especially with the jumping in the air and not knowing what he was doing thing). I know it was one game and Battle especially will improve and hopefully gain confidence I can't help but think we are putting a lot of pressure on Howard to play well every night. I personally always saw White as a catch and shoot guy and was never expecting any driving and such from him. I was hoping he would play the 3 almost the whole time. I was really relying on Battle having a big year and Gillon being solid for 15-20 minutes a game. If that isn't happening I have long term concerns. We simply have to get more out of Battle and Gillon. I'm not worried about 3 and 4 at all myself. I think 4 was an aberration and 3 is what it is.

 

[Oráiste]

I didn't expect Gillon to look like that at all this year. He seemed so smooth and poised until Saturday. Obviously, the competition was a huge step up, but he was a mess. I expect to see an entirely different team tomorrow night.

Pomeroy has a new feature this year. you can look at an individual player and break down is performances against different levels of competition. Although Gillon posted strong overall numbers last year, his numbers collapsed in the ten games he played against top 100 competition. He'll be playing probably 2x as many top 100 teams this year. It's why I personally never put a lot of eggs in the Gillon basket. I'm just hoping for a few quality spot minutes per half vs. top notch competition. We'll rise & fall with Howard, I think, because he's got a better chance of becoming a true ACC-caliber player this season

 

[SoBristol]

It is not either/0r between Howard & Gillon -- at least not entirely. With Battle not being productive, and South Carolina pressuring the PG, JB went with both Howard and JG for several minutes, and it seemed to steady the team.
The big elephant in the room is that Battle is tentative in half court. Hasn't figured anything out yet.

 

[orange79]

It is not either/0r between Howard & Gillon -- at least not entirely. With Battle not being productive, and South Carolina pressuring the PG, JB went with both Howard and JG for several minutes, and it seemed to steady the team.
The big elephant in the room is that Battle is tentative in half court. Hasn't figured anything out yet.

It's 5 games in to his freshman year.

Sheesh

 

[SoBristol]

It's 5 games in to his freshman year.

Sheesh

Yes, it is five games -- while people are ragging on some of our less touted players, the missing ingredient is TB.

 

[two3zone]

Yes, it is five games -- while people are ragging on some of our less touted players, the missing ingredient is TB.

Thomas Bryant?

"runs away from the thread quickly"

 

[orange79]

Yes, it is five games -- while people are ragging on some of our less touted players, the missing ingredient is TB.

So, you expected him to come in here and perform like Carmelo from day 1?

 

[007]

Saturday's loss to South Carolina was a deflating kick to the nuts. We sucked--and while USC's defense certainly had a lot to do with it, it was discouraging that we also shot ourselves in the foot a couple of important ways. Namely:

1. Our point guards sucked -- the flat out stunk up the joint. I know that some will point to how Howard played at the beginning of the second half to counter this claim, but really--he was generally poor. And Gillon looked like a deer in the headlights--he couldn't get the ball out of his hands fast enough. I hope that this was just big game jitters and that he'll settle down, otherwise he's going to be parked upon the pine if he can't be counted upon to deliver. These guys are BOTH capable of playing better than they did against South Carolina, and we need them to both be better. Some of those Gillon drives, he left his feet with nowhere to go. If you're not confident about making a play or taking a shot, then don't try to do too much. And it drives me nuts that both of these guys drive into the teeth of the defense and then make passes backwards to guys like Coleman and Chukwu who can't do anything with the ball there even if they catch it cleanly. Enough. Make no mistake, both of these guys stunk the joint out on Saturday, which contributed heavily to our loss, and also feeds into my second point...
2. Thus far, we display zero cohesion in terms of team offensive play -- Something that's worried me in the four admittedly impressive offensive early games we had was that everything we've seen thus far has been one-on-one, with not much ball movement. There's too much reliance in our offense on guys getting the ball, slowing down, and then trying to individually create their own shot [even a big like Taurean Thompson is guilty of this]. You can get away with that against lesser opponents. And it isn't difficult to make shots when you're up 20. But when the game's on the line, the team needs to function as one, otherwise things bog down. And to date, our execution of half court offensive sets has been subpar. Our point guards did us no favors with their play on Saturday, either, but that was only a symptom of the larger problem. If we are going to rely upon Lydon and White to have to create their own shots, then we're going to struggle all year long. The points guards simply have to do a better job of running the team's half court offense, and the team has to do a better job of finding the open man and making slick interior passes. Move the rock around.
3. Our free throw shooting sucks -- what's new? This seems to be a perennial problem. The four in a row that Frank missed when we were down 6 really hampered our ability to come back. And he wasn't the only one.
4. Missed bunnies --in a game where points were tough to come by, we pissed away a ton of scoring opportunities within the shadow of the basket. Can't afford to do that. I'm looking at you Tyler Roberson. I don't expect Chukwu to be much of a factor on offense, but when our guys get the ball at point blank range of the rim, they have to convert, or get fouled.

#2 worries me the most--by FAR--but we'll need to clean up ALL of these issues, or Tuesday's going to be another rough outing.

One of the things I admire most about JB is his ability to adjust the offense to compensate for flaws. It's an unfortunate fact that we do not have a low post threat (let alone low post scoring). He is going to have to find ways to increase interior scoring in the paint. Pick and rolls are not going to work with our 5s - everyone we play will hedge hard and/or double ball screens.

JB is going to have to do it with floor spacing, dribble penetration, and off ball/weak side staggered screens in half court sets. Transition is the other way to increase paint scoring. The problem with that is we don't rebound well enough to run the break. Transition offense for this team will need to come off of steals from the top of the zone, and hard traps on the wings to produce turnovers.

 

[two3zone]

So, you expected him to come in here and perform like Carmelo from day 1?

This.

I also think it's extremely unfair to crap on the guy yet you have 2 fifth year seniors who did nothing, our "lottery pick" who had 6 turnovers, a senior who shows up less amount of times that he does, and another 5th year senior who can't stay on the court for more than 10 minutes a game because he allows layup after layup when he's in the game. But let's attack the freshman who barely saw the court.

 

[SUFan44]

Tony Greene

We stunk and didn't deserve to win, but Tony Greene was abysmal. He is just a brutal, brutal referee and called some atrocious calls - especially in the first half.

 

[orangehomer]

Saturday's loss to South Carolina was a deflating kick to the nuts. We sucked--and while USC's defense certainly had a lot to do with it, it was discouraging that we also shot ourselves in the foot a couple of important ways. Namely:

1. Our point guards sucked -- the flat out stunk up the joint. I know that some will point to how Howard played at the beginning of the second half to counter this claim, but really--he was generally poor. And Gillon looked like a deer in the headlights--he couldn't get the ball out of his hands fast enough. I hope that this was just big game jitters and that he'll settle down, otherwise he's going to be parked upon the pine if he can't be counted upon to deliver. These guys are BOTH capable of playing better than they did against South Carolina, and we need them to both be better. Some of those Gillon drives, he left his feet with nowhere to go. If you're not confident about making a play or taking a shot, then don't try to do too much. And it drives me nuts that both of these guys drive into the teeth of the defense and then make passes backwards to guys like Coleman and Chukwu who can't do anything with the ball there even if they catch it cleanly. Enough. Make no mistake, both of these guys stunk the joint out on Saturday, which contributed heavily to our loss, and also feeds into my second point...
2. Thus far, we display zero cohesion in terms of team offensive play -- Something that's worried me in the four admittedly impressive offensive early games we had was that everything we've seen thus far has been one-on-one, with not much ball movement. There's too much reliance in our offense on guys getting the ball, slowing down, and then trying to individually create their own shot [even a big like Taurean Thompson is guilty of this]. You can get away with that against lesser opponents. And it isn't difficult to make shots when you're up 20. But when the game's on the line, the team needs to function as one, otherwise things bog down. And to date, our execution of half court offensive sets has been subpar. Our point guards did us no favors with their play on Saturday, either, but that was only a symptom of the larger problem. If we are going to rely upon Lydon and White to have to create their own shots, then we're going to struggle all year long. The points guards simply have to do a better job of running the team's half court offense, and the team has to do a better job of finding the open man and making slick interior passes. Move the rock around.
3. Our free throw shooting sucks -- what's new? This seems to be a perennial problem. The four in a row that Frank missed when we were down 6 really hampered our ability to come back. And he wasn't the only one.
4. Missed bunnies --in a game where points were tough to come by, we pissed away a ton of scoring opportunities within the shadow of the basket. Can't afford to do that. I'm looking at you Tyler Roberson. I don't expect Chukwu to be much of a factor on offense, but when our guys get the ball at point blank range of the rim, they have to convert, or get fouled.

#2 worries me the most--by FAR--but we'll need to clean up ALL of these issues, or Tuesday's going to be another rough outing.

I was wondering, would it be better to bring lydon off the bench?

 

[realorange]

I was wondering, would it be better to bring lydon off the bench?

Oh Lord

 

[dasher]

Tony Greene

Was that Tony Greene, again?

 

[Cusefan0307]

Was that Tony Greene, again?

Yep. Also granted South Carolina a foul(legit)on Thompson after Gillon already had the ball on our side of the court.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Yep. Also granted South Carolina a foul(legit)on Thompson after Gillon already had the ball on our side of the court.

I think the announcers screwed the explanation up on that. From what I could gather, the whistle blew simultaneously to the shot clock going off and that's why play continued.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I think the announcers screwed the explanation up on that. From what I could gather, the whistle blew simultaneously to the shot clock going off and that's why play continued.

Ahh that makes sense then. I still hate Tony Greene. Can't you blackball refs in college? I know you can in High School in NYS.

 

[jordoo]

I think the announcers screwed the explanation up on that. From what I could gather, the whistle blew simultaneously to the shot clock going off and that's why play continued.

Yes, in real time it seemed like they were reviewing if there was a foul but they called a foul and were reviewing if it was before the shot clock went off and determined that the foul occurred before the shot clock. They actually did that correctly IMO although it played out very strangely during the game.

 

[Ghost]

I think the announcers screwed the explanation up on that. From what I could gather, the whistle blew simultaneously to the shot clock going off and that's why play continued.

lol...I forgot about that. I still think he just messed that one up so badly that he had to make that story up. Not a single person heard the whistle? None of the officials acted like a whistle just blew either.....till like NINE seconds later. That was so bizarre.

I wish I would have rewound it and watched a couple more times. TT was the only one that looked like maybe a whistle was blown.

 

[Newhouser]

The PG play was our biggest issue. Lydon and White are good offensive players and great shooters but neither is good at creating offense. That needs to be done from the guard spot on this team. JB was basically taking turns pulling Frank and John for poor play until Frank picked up two quick fouls in that first half. Neither of them got the job done Saturday and Battle was invisible out there. Those 3 guys need to make things happen offensively by getting the ball moving, driving it and directing traffic.

I thought the game was pretty much lost early on. Howard made the adjustment to drive, he made a good drive which should have been an +1 but was called a charge. The player never got complete defensive positioning in front of frank and was already falling backwards. (that happens way too much in the NCAA) This wiped out the basket. Then we went to a press and Howard picked up a 2nd foul which was completely unnecessary. I believe at that point Howard allowed his emotions to get to him. Yes he started the second half much better, drove the ball and picked up a bunch of fouls but he was so worked up he missed all his FT's. At one point we had a good chance to get back into the game. We made it 6pts (I think) then gave up an easy basket down low. I think on our next two possessions Howard was fouled and missed all his FT's while SC extended the lead back to 10-12.

To me offensive identity/cohesiveness, interior defense and PG leadership seem to be our biggest issues. Lots of new parts so its a work in progress. I'm still high on this team as a collection of players although Saturday gave us a glimpse of how it will go if we don't get it together.

Oh and please someone show Lydon tape of how many open looks he passed up. I think he believes he has to be open by 10' to shoot this year. Lydon open with time to shot as the closeout comes would have been a much better shot than what we got most of the afternoon. He passed up at least 5 really good looks IMO, White would have shot everyone of those.

I think if Howard gets the and 1 there rather than the charge, we win the game. I think he is getting unfairly trashed on the board.