Okay the Tampa 2 doesn't work but neither does the Shafer D

[Millhouse]

I was at the game today. No one scheme would have really helped, unfortunately.

76 points is an epic failure - I get that. The biggest issue we have is on DL and at the safety position. We had to rely on too many freshman on the DL, especially on the edges. The really struggled at the point of attack today and we pushed around a lot.

The holes they had to run through were enormous - something you see at a high school level. Much to money's point, there were a few missteps out there with regards to alignment, but the bigger issue was plain size and strength.

Williams and Ellison really played poorly today. As solid as Ellison is in run support, he is as abysmal at identifying routes and concepts in the pass game. There were several busted coverages that Peterman never saw, although it didn't matter.

I'm not sure Williams is a P5 starter. At least he shouldn't be starting this early in his career. Tough kid, but his lack of foot speed was apparent when Peterman ran by him for a TD late in the game. That absolutely cannot happen at this level of football.

We must find a couple of players next year from the JUCO ranks to shore up those positions. It's a glaring weakness right now. We are just so small it's shocking. Even Bennett is undersized.

That all being said, I like what I see from Black and Coleman. They just are playing too early. I am also a huge Armstrong fan. The young man is pretty talented, just needs time in the weight room.

Remember Shafers defense had bigger corners and backers. Merkerson was good size, even Kevyn Scott was 210. Throw in linebackers like Hogue, Spruill, and Smith. Also had Chandler Jones too...

I loved Shafer's defense. But part of the reason we are in this mess is his. The recruits just kept getting smaller. Jonathan Thomas looks like a wideout out there.

There were defensive lineman getting spun around and pushed towards the sidelines helplessly. In the second quarter I threw up my hands and predicted 425 on the ground . I was surprised when they ever made a stop

It doesn't take a giant overhaul to upgrade to ordinary garbage instead of epic disaster. When that happens, we will be good. There is a bigger difference between 80th and 120th than there is between 40th and 80th

The defense can't stay this bad even if you try to be bad. The offense was prolific with a limited qb. I don't want to rag on Mahoney on such a memorable day for him but this offense is just about perfect

 

[TheCusian]

Who cares about Narduzzi? I don't watch them game after game. I know they won 8 games. I know they beat Clemson at Clemson. Sign me up.

Lots of people wanting an "aggressive" D. We torched that aggressive D.

They won via their O and being able to stop the run.

We're not that far off.

 

[alphaorange]

Let's not lose sight of the fact we are still not fast enough on defense. At least three TDs happened because they simply ran away from the defense in an open field. We have nobody that can catch fast guys...

 

[dasher]

Lots of people wanting an "aggressive" D. We torched that aggressive D.

They won via their O and being able to stop the run.

We're not that far off.

That aggressive D beat the Tigers at Death Valley. A more impressive road win than Syracuse has had in the last 40 + years.

 

[Alsacs]

That aggressive D beat the Tigers at Death Valley. A more impressive road win than Syracuse has had in the last 40 + years.

DeShaun Watson threw for an ACC record 569 yards in that game against that aggressive D.
Pitt won that game because their offense torched a really elite Clemson D. There D was pure crap that game.
Also our win over Nebraska in 84 was impressive.

 

[TheCusian]

That aggressive D beat the Tigers at Death Valley. A more impressive road win than Syracuse has had in the last 40 + years.

And the Tampa 2 stopped (enough to win) the team they'll be playing in the ACC championship game - our best win since P was here.

They are farther ahead (by a year) in putting their system in and have out recruited us for the last 10.

And I repeat: just gave up 61 to a backup QB, who came in as a walkon, was a "no star" in recruiting.

 

[Alsacs]

The only reason why that Pitt-Clemson game wasn't higher scoring than 43-42 is that drives took more clock than they did in the SU-Pitt game and it reduced the total amount of possessions.
Pitt's Aggressive D is utter garbage but they have an elite offense led by a 5th year Senior.

 

[dasher]

DeShaun Watson threw for an ACC record 569 yards in that game against that aggressive D.
Pitt won that game because their offense torched a really elite Clemson D. There D was pure crap that game.

Pitt won 8 games this season. The point is that their defense isn't pure crap like ours. They can win games at this level with their defensive scheme. We can't. We won't. Our offense can get the job done. I am a believer in Dino's scheme. It has proven itself to be terrific. But, as I and others said before we played one play this season, we can't win playing the Tampa 2. It needs to be scrapped. Can better players make it look better. Yeah. Can they make it look good enough. No. You know that. But you had to for some reason drag Shafer in to the discussion. A guy that could get a job as a d coordinator at a big program on Monday just by letting people know he was a available. This defense this year (if you want to go as far as actually calling it a defense) had nothing to do with the defense that Shafer put on the field (other that the players). Their record this season speaks for itself. If Dino changes the defense, as is obvious to most of us, we have a chance to have something here.

 

[dasher]

And the Tampa 2 stopped (enough to win) the team they'll be playing in the ACC championship game - our best win since P was here.

They are farther ahead (by a year) in putting their system in and have out recruited us for the last 10.

And I repeat: just gave up 61 to a backup QB, who came in as a walkon, was a "no star" in recruiting.

In all fairness to Mahoney, he put pts up against some very good teams last year.

 

[TheCusian]

In all fairness to Mahoney, he put pts up against some very good teams last year.

Not 61

 

[Millhouse]

Pitt won 8 games this season. The point is that their defense isn't pure crap like ours. They can win games at this level with their defensive scheme. We can't. We won't. Our offense can get the job done. I am a believer in Dino's scheme. It has proven itself to be terrific. But, as I and others said before we played one play this season, we can't win playing the Tampa 2. It needs to be scrapped. Can better players make it look better. Yeah. Can they make it look good enough. No. You know that. But you had to for some reason drag Shafer in to the discussion. A guy that could get a job as a d coordinator at a big program on Monday just by letting people know he was a available. This defense this year (if you want to go as far as actually calling it a defense) had nothing to do with the defense that Shafer put on the field (other that the players). Their record this season speaks for itself. If Dino changes the defense, as is obvious to most of us, we have a chance to have something here.

The Tampa two might suck but I don't know how anyone can conclude that from watching a bunch of slow weak teenagers

 

[dasher]

The only reason why that Pitt-Clemson game wasn't higher scoring than 43-42 is that drives took more clock than they did in the SU-Pitt game and it reduced the total amount of possessions.
Pitt's Aggressive D is utter garbage but they have an elite offense led by a 5th year Senior.

And to be clear, our defense has nothing to do with Pitt's defense. A red herring. We can't win playing the Tampa two. You want to argue that we can't win playing an aggressive defense, be my guest. Against the competition that we play, with the talent that we get, I think it is our best bet. But there really is no debating the crap show we saw this year. Teams just scored on us at will. 11 td's on only 59 plays. Look at the way the Ville and ND scored early in the game against us. It really was like there was no one playing defense and it was like a walk through.

 

[dasher]

Not 61

Well, the other teams hadn't scored 74 so fast that he got the ball right back either.

 

[dasher]

The Tampa two might suck but I don't know how anyone can conclude that from watching a bunch of slow weak teenagers

You don't?

 

[Alsacs]

Pitt won 8 games this season. The point is that their defense isn't pure crap like ours. They can win games at this level with their defensive scheme. We can't. We won't. Our offense can get the job done. I am a believer in Dino's scheme. It has proven itself to be terrific. But, as I and others said before we played one play this season, we can't win playing the Tampa 2. It needs to be scrapped. Can better players make it look better. Yeah. Can they make it look good enough. No. You know that. But you had to for some reason drag Shafer in to the discussion. A guy that could get a job as a d coordinator at a big program on Monday just by letting people know he was a available. This defense this year (if you want to go as far as actually calling it a defense) had nothing to do with the defense that Shafer put on the field (other that the players). Their record this season speaks for itself. If Dino changes the defense, as is obvious to most of us, we have a chance to have something here.

Pitt has played 10 P5 teams and given up
39 to Penn State they scored 42
45 to Oklahoma State they scored 38
36 to North Carolina they scored 35
34 to Georgia Tech they scored 37
31 to Virginia they scored 45
39 to Virginia Tech they scored 36
51 to Miami they scored 28
42 to clemson they scored 43
14 to Duke they scored 56
61 to Syracuse they scored 76

Their D is pure chit. It didn't win them a single game. If you didn't torch them you Suck. They won 8 games with an elite offense.

 

[Alsacs]

By the Dasher our D might suck but it was recruited by Shafer.

 

[bcubs9497]

Pitt has played 10 P5 teams and given up
39 to Penn State they scored 42
45 to Oklahoma State they scored 38
36 to North Carolina they scored 35
34 to Georgia Tech they scored 37
31 to Virginia they scored 45
39 to Virginia Tech they scored 36
51 to Miami they scored 28
42 to clemson they scored 43
14 to Duke they scored 56
61 to Syracuse they scored 76

Their D is pure chit. It didn't win them a single game. If you didn't torch them you Suck. They won 8 games with an elite offense.

Good enough to get them into a bowl game...

 

[dasher]

Pitt has played 10 P5 teams and given up
39 to Penn State they scored 42
45 to Oklahoma State they scored 38
36 to North Carolina they scored 35
34 to Georgia Tech they scored 37
31 to Virginia they scored 45
39 to Virginia Tech they scored 36
51 to Miami they scored 28
42 to clemson they scored 43
14 to Duke they scored 56
61 to Syracuse they scored 76

Their D is pure chit. It didn't win them a single game. If you didn't torch them you Suck. They won 8 games with an elite offense.

You seem to want to compare everything to Pitt for some reason. There are a lot of teams playing aggressive defenses out there. And they don't give up 501 yards a game. We can't win playing this scheme. If we could, great. Use it. It's amazing that you are trying to defend this system when you started off by saying that you finally agree that the Tampa 2 isn't the answer. You are just arguing to argue. Our defense was what was total crap. We all agree we need better players. Older, bigger, faster. I hope we bring in 4 or 5 5th year guys and really toughen it up. But playing in the league we play in, unlike the MAC, the skilled players with elite speed, the Tampa 2 won't work here.

 

[dasher]

By the Dasher our D might suck but it was recruited by Shafer.

??? Did I ever say that Shafer was a good recruiter? Ever? No. You know why? He wasn't. I don't know if Dino is or isn't. But Scott wasn't. Next question. Oh, and playing a different system, they may not have looked like a joke this season. They wouldn't have been good. But not a joke like this.

 

[bcubs9497]

You seem to want to compare everything to Pitt for some reason. There are a lot of teams playing aggressive defenses out there. And they don't give up 501 yards a game. We can't win playing this scheme. If we could, great. Use it. It's amazing that you are trying to defend this system when you started off by saying that you finally agree that the Tampa 2 isn't the answer. You are just arguing to argue. Our defense was what was total crap. We all agree we need better players. Older, bigger, faster. I hope we bring in 4 or 5 5th year guys and really toughen it up. But playing in the league we play in, unlike the MAC, the skilled players with elite speed, the Tampa 2 won't work here.

I just watched Pitt's first TD. Blown coverage. DBs let a WR get behind 'em. They then had to turn around to pursue. That's not scheme, or even talent. That's just dumb.

 

[dasher]

I just watched Pitt's first TD. Blown coverage. DBs let a WR get behind 'em. They then had to turn around to pursue. That's not scheme, or even talent. That's just dumb.

first td huh. How about the other 10. TEN. And our scheme just gave up 500+ yard a game this season. And if that isn't bad enough, the other teams made it look ridiculously easy. There really was no grinding it out against us.

 

[bcubs9497]

first td huh. How about the other 10. TEN. And our scheme just gave up 500+ yard a game this season. And if that isn't bad enough, the other teams made it look ridiculously easy. There really was no grinding it out against us.

Oh, I totally think the Tampa 2 sucks balls. Just don't think it was the reason for that first TD.

 

[Orangello]

Everyone arguing that the T2 defensive scheme can work here concedes that both the DL and secondary have to have a serious talent upgrade to perform at an adequate level. At the same time, they argue that you can't play freshmen and be competitive because they need at least a year in strength and conditioning and part of the problem is that we are playing too many young guys this year. So if youth is the problem and you need to redshirt the incoming freshmen defensive players to build depth how can we possibly be better next year without an immediate infusion of JUCO's or transfers in the DL and secondary ? The poor talent we have is going to magically become superior talent in the off season ? I think not.

People arguing that this D will be automatically better next year just because, are setting themselves up for more disappointment. It might be marginally better because I don't see how it can be this horrible for another year, but it could also be worse. That's possible as well. If you don't have the horses to run your preferred scheme it is incumbent upon the staff to adjust the scheme to fit the talent you do have. Dino better take a long hard look at his defense including defensive staff because he has a serious problem.

 

[bcubs9497]

Everyone arguing that the T2 defensive scheme can work here concedes that both the DL and secondary have to have a serious talent upgrade to perform at an adequate level. At the same time, they argue that you can't play freshmen and be competitive because they need at least a year in strength and conditioning and part of the problem is that we are playing too many young guys this year. So if youth is the problem and you need to redshirt the incoming freshmen defensive players to build depth how can we possibly be better next year without an immediate infusion of JUCO's or transfers in the DL and secondary ? The poor talent we have is going to magically become superior talent in the off season ? I think not.

People arguing that this D will be automatically better next year just because, are setting themselves up for more disappointment. It might be marginally better because I don't see how it can be this horrible for another year, but it could also be worse. That's possible as well. If you don't have the horses to run your preferred scheme it is incumbent upon the staff to adjust the scheme to fit the talent you do have. Dino better take a long hard look at his defense including defensive staff because he has a serious problem.

Sitting back, more often than not, and giving an offense a shtton of 5-10 yard gains to prevent a "big play" is putrid. What's the difference between 10 5 yard plays and 1 50 yard play? Not a damn thing. At least, with an aggressive defense, it's possible to put pressure on the QB and get inside his OODA loop.

 

[Shrmdougluvr]

I was at the game today. No one scheme would have really helped, unfortunately.

76 points is an epic failure - I get that. The biggest issue we have is on DL and at the safety position. We had to rely on too many freshman on the DL, especially on the edges. The really struggled at the point of attack today and we pushed around a lot.

The holes they had to run through were enormous - something you see at a high school level. Much to money's point, there were a few missteps out there with regards to alignment, but the bigger issue was plain size and strength.

Williams and Ellison really played poorly today. As solid as Ellison is in run support, he is as abysmal at identifying routes and concepts in the pass game. There were several busted coverages that Peterman never saw, although it didn't matter.

I'm not sure Williams is a P5 starter. At least he shouldn't be starting this early in his career. Tough kid, but his lack of foot speed was apparent when Peterman ran by him for a TD late in the game. That absolutely cannot happen at this level of football.

We must find a couple of players next year from the JUCO ranks to shore up those positions. It's a glaring weakness right now. We are just so small it's shocking. Even Bennett is undersized.

That all being said, I like what I see from Black and Coleman. They just are playing too early. I am also a huge Armstrong fan. The young man is pretty talented, just needs time in the weight room.

Remember Shafers defense had bigger corners and backers. Merkerson was good size, even Kevyn Scott was 210. Throw in linebackers like Hogue, Spruill, and Smith. Also had Chandler Jones too...

I loved Shafer's defense. But part of the reason we are in this mess is his. The recruits just kept getting smaller. Jonathan Thomas looks like a wideout out there.

This is it. I don't think we are too slow across the field. I think the defense played slow because they were adjusting to a read-react scheme.

But the size issues are glaring. Other than Slayton, Samuels, Franklin, and Clark, who on our defense is actually ACC size appropriate for the position they play? Our MLB is the size of an OLB. Our OLBs are built like safeties. Our safeties are built like corners. Our DEs are undersized and true freshman. It's a disaster.

Next year, based on size and experience alone, the defense should make a fairly substantial jump. At least we'll have a bunch of ACC players on the field. Then we can more accurately gage the scheme.