OT - GW Hoops...

[Bayside44]

GW basketball players report coach’s ‘verbal and emotional abuse’; many fled school

 

[Eric15]

GW basketball players report coach’s ‘verbal and emotional abuse’; many fled school

Obviously this coach deserves due process like anyone else, but I feel like it's extremely unlikely that these players would make this up.

 

[Alsacs]

We still have 1 open scholarship even if White commits. Just sayin'.

 

[OttoMets]

Sorry, but this just came across as funny: "He told another, in front of the team, he should transfer to a “transgender league,” multiple players said."

 

[dasher]

We still have 1 open scholarship even if White commits. Just sayin'.

1000x like If that happens, we should change leagues to the Atlantic division of the NBA

 

[Briancuse]

No wonder why mystery man wanted out.

 

[Briancuse]

1000x like If that happens, we should change leagues to the Atlantic division of the NBA

We could probably come in 2nd.

 

[orangefog]

Wow, an even better shooter (statistically) than White.

 

[OrangeTarheel]

Sorry, but this just came across as funny: "He told another, in front of the team, he should transfer to a “transgender league,” multiple players said."

It's funny that he doesn't have any clue how wildly hurtful and inappropriate that is ... some of these young kids are coming to college from great homes but some come seeking role models and mentors (whether they know it or not.) To demonstrate to a young person that it is ok to act that way makes me laugh also ... but only b/c I can't believe HOW outside of normal human behavior that is.

 

[pfister1]

It doesn't much matter whether the allegations are the absolute truth. If he has that many players transferring and players lodging complaints about him and at what sounds like disparate times the school probably needs to consider a change sooner than later.

 

[weedsportwarriors]

After seeing this I am shocked that Mystery Man did not leave and go elsewhere if not SU.

 

[Townie72]

Obviously this coach deserves due process like anyone else, but I feel like it's extremely unlikely that these players would make this up.

He had no trouble whatsoever at Catholic University here in DC when he was coach for quite a few years.

The players aren't making things up. The question in my mind is how thin-skinned these players are. Could this be the logical extension of the "everybody gets a trophy" upbringing of today's players at this level?

If I don't like someone or if someone is making me do more than I want to do, I might be a little more offended at a less-than-PC comment. Especially if I am looking for a reason to get the guy.

I am reminded of the quote from long-time Princeton coach, Pate Carroll. It was something like "I never recruit kids from houses with three car garages. I look for kids who live in houses with no garages. And I never recruit from schools with "Country Day" in their name."

Pete was looking for toughness.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

He had no trouble whatsoever at Catholic University here in DC when he was coach for quite a few years.

The players aren't making things up. The question in my mind is how thin-skinned these players are. Could this be the logical extension of the "everybody gets a trophy" upbringing of today's players at this level?

If I don't like someone or if someone is making me do more than I want to do, I might be a little more offended at a less-than-PC comment. Especially if I am looking for a reason to get the guy.

I am reminded of the quote from long-time Princeton coach, Pate Carroll. It was something like "I never recruit kids from houses with three car garages. I look for kids who live in houses with no garages. And I never recruit from schools with "Country Day" in their name."

Pete was looking for toughness.

chris webber was pretty tough on the court.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

Sorry, but this just came across as funny: "He told another, in front of the team, he should transfer to a “transgender league,” multiple players said."

Cause it is funny. Sorry if not PC, but its not a slur..at least he is using appropriate terminology.

 

[Eric15]

He had no trouble whatsoever at Catholic University here in DC when he was coach for quite a few years.

The players aren't making things up. The question in my mind is how thin-skinned these players are. Could this be the logical extension of the "everybody gets a trophy" upbringing of today's players at this level?

If I don't like someone or if someone is making me do more than I want to do, I might be a little more offended at a less-than-PC comment. Especially if I am looking for a reason to get the guy.

I am reminded of the quote from long-time Princeton coach, Pate Carroll. It was something like "I never recruit kids from houses with three car garages. I look for kids who live in houses with no garages. And I never recruit from schools with "Country Day" in their name."

Pete was looking for toughness.

Townie, if I remember correctly, you were the only person on the board to defend Mike Rice at Rutgers during his horribleness. Do you still feel that way?

 

[dollarbill44]

It's funny that he doesn't have any clue how wildly hurtful and inappropriate that is ... some of these young kids are coming to college from great homes but some come seeking role models and mentors (whether they know it or not.) To demonstrate to a young person that it is ok to act that way makes me laugh also ... but only b/c I can't believe HOW outside of normal human behavior that is.

Really? How outside of normal human behavior? Are you new to earth? First, we've been killing each other since day one. Second(actually, this is WAY down the list, but in the interest of time...) any man over the age of 40 who played a sport in high school or higher has probably heard worse from a coach at some point. When I was in high school, that line would have been an instant classic. Times change, I guess, but coaches have always used emasculating slurs to encourage toughness in their players.
Sorry to rail a bit, but to say this is far outside of normal human behavior is inaccurate.

 

[Townie72]

Townie, if I remember correctly, you were the only person on the board to defend Mike Rice at Rutgers during his horribleness. Do you still feel that way?

Sorry. You are off-base. I certainly cannot remember defending Mike Rice nor would I ever be prone to do that.

As I said, if you really don't like someone, anything that person says you interpret in the most negative way. Maybe to the extent of saying you were horribly offended, while another person saying the same thing wouldn't bother you a lick.

 

[Townie72]

Cause it is funny. Sorry if not PC, but its not a slur..at least he is using appropriate terminology.

First of all, as far as I know, there is no such thing as a "Transgender League" in any sport. So it's a totally empty threat and ridiculous suggestion.

It certainly is "appropriate terminology or the "politically-correct" language recommended.

But then what else could you call this imaginary league, the league for the gender-confused?

When I read "Alice in Wonderland" I had no idea I would live to see such zany logic used and accepted by large sections of the US population.

 

[Eric15]

Sorry. You are off-base. I certainly cannot remember defending Mike Rice nor would I ever be prone to do that.

I just found the thread. Your words:

"The guy was trying to motivate these guys. No one even got hurt ... maybe some feelings were hurt."

"Ohhh, the horror. Ohhh the horror. How could people withstand such cruelty? Coaches shouldn't behave like this. What if one of these players actually was gay? What about their FEELINGS? That about gets it, right? As I said way back when ... A nation of sissies."

"I think the reaction to the videos was overblown. Much as I thought the reaction to the Imus comments about the RU women's basketball team were overblown."

In your defense, later in the thread you said "Rice used poor judgement. I don't think his actions were particularly motivational."

My only comment on the Mike Rice situation.

 

[Townie72]

I just found the thread. Your words:

"The guy was trying to motivate these guys. No one even got hurt ... maybe some feelings were hurt."

"Ohhh, the horror. Ohhh the horror. How could people withstand such cruelty? Coaches shouldn't behave like this. What if one of these players actually was gay? What about their FEELINGS? That about gets it, right? As I said way back when ... A nation of sissies."

"I think the reaction to the videos was overblown. Much as I thought the reaction to the Imus comments about the RU women's basketball team were overblown."

In your defense, later in the thread you said "Rice used poor judgement. I don't think his actions were particularly motivational."

My only comment on the Mike Rice situation.

So I am consistent then.

I don't know everything Lonergan did or didn't do. I do know he was at Catholic U a long time and I know people closely connected to the school and that's a small community. If he was abusing players beyond what college coaches do ordinarily, everyone in town would have known about it.

Lonergan and Rice both probably used "poor judgement". Lornegan could have given those that don't like him he PC rope they needed to hang him.

I have been told that the sainted John Thompson coaching language set consisted of an almost unbroken string of the vilest kind of profanity.

 

[HyattsCuse]

After seeing this I am shocked that Mystery Man did not leave and go elsewhere if not SU.

I'm probably late to the game, but that clears up that "mystery" for me. Thanks!

 

[pfister1]

He had no trouble whatsoever at Catholic University here in DC when he was coach for quite a few years.

The players aren't making things up. The question in my mind is how thin-skinned these players are. Could this be the logical extension of the "everybody gets a trophy" upbringing of today's players at this level?

If I don't like someone or if someone is making me do more than I want to do, I might be a little more offended at a less-than-PC comment. Especially if I am looking for a reason to get the guy.

I am reminded of the quote from long-time Princeton coach, Pate Carroll. It was something like "I never recruit kids from houses with three car garages. I look for kids who live in houses with no garages. And I never recruit from schools with "Country Day" in their name."

Pete was looking for toughness.

In some ways it doesn't matter. You don't have to fire him because he was bullying the players or using inappropriate language, although that might help with the buy-out. You fire him because he seems to have lost his locker room to a degree and there appears to be quite a bit of discord between Lonergan and Athletic Department Senior Staff.

GW doesn't have football, so this is their primary most high profile sport in terms of trying to rally alumni support etc.. I think they have to be careful not to allow a cancer to fester within the athletic department and not abide any sort of public embarrassment that is clearly going to come out of airing lots of dirty laundry. GW basketball has been a fair to middlin performer. Every now and then they make the NCAA tournament, last year they won the NIT, they haven't won an A-10 championship in 10 years. If you want alumni to rally behind that kind of program it isn't successful enough to tolerate off the court embarrassments.

One of the coach's jobs is to be in control of his roster. If he is recruiting lots of guys he can't control either because they don't go to classes, are out running amok and getting arrested or just taking ugly allegations public (as is minimally the case here) he's not doing his job as effectively as he needs to be. Head coaches get paid lots of money, sometimes the job comes with high and maybe even unfair performance expectations...but that is why the compensation is as high as it is.

 

[Townie72]

In some ways it doesn't matter. You don't have to fire him because he was bullying the players or using inappropriate language, although that might help with the buy-out. You fire him because he seems to have lost his locker room to a degree and there appears to be quite a bit of discord between Lonergan and Athletic Department Senior Staff.

GW doesn't have football, so this is their primary most high profile sport in terms of trying to rally alumni support etc.. I think they have to be careful not to allow a cancer to fester within the athletic department and not abide any sort of public embarassment that is clearly going to come out of airing lots of dirty laundry. One of the coach's jobs is to be in control of his roster. If he is recruiting lots of guys he can't control either because they don't go to classes, are out running amok and getting arrested or just taking ugly allegations public (as is minimally the case here) he's not doing his job as effectively as he needs to be.

Sounds to me --- from the accusations --- that he did just the opposite from what you are suggesting he did recruiting wise. Sounds like he recruited a bunch of "soft" kids and was using this as a way to toughen them up.

At the Prep school here in DC I follow most, the coaches of the freshman team spend the first few practices trying to instill the toughness the incoming frosh did not get in years of camps and organized league basketball. It's a toughness, a physicality they would have gotten if they had played a lot of "playground" basketball, which they have not.

So they insist the kids play several scrimmages with no rules. If someone drives the basket, you do whatever it takes to stop him.

Now of course, they didn't want them to play this way, but at the same time they don't want them to be ultra-soft.

It's what Pete Carrill was talking about when he said he didn't recruit kids from schools with "Country Day" in their name.

 

[jordoo]

I think there is no doubt that people are soft and more sensitive than they ever have been. I'm not supporting the coaches behavior just pointing out what is becoming the norm for our society. I can see where it comes from as I have 3 children in varies sports and activities. Its an insane world when even the worst of efforts and talents are praised to make the individual feel good. Isn't it more satisfying to receive real well deserved praise?

 

[Townie72]

Out of curiosity I checked the GW 2016-17 BB roster.

I knew their best player last year was a grad of The Landon School of Bethesda which is a very expensive private school.

The GW roster seems to be filled with kids from two types of schools. 1. Private schools and 2. Schools from the deep suburbs.

Included were:
Westhill High, Syracuse, NY ; Jamesville-DeWitt HS, Syracuse, NY; Canisius Prep, Buffalo; St Stephens and Saint Agnes Prep, Alexandria, VA; Worcester Academy. Mass; The Bolles School, Jacksonville, FL; The Hotchkiss School, MA; Annapolis Area Christian School, Annapolis, MD

Quite a difference from the Pitt roster, wouldn't you say?