Pre 3 point shot era

[Ringostar57]

What SU players pre 3 point shot era would have average 5 made 3 s per game? Kid Kohls and Raf Addison come to mind but who else?

 

[bevosu]

George Hicker

 

[orangefog]

What SU players pre 3 point shot era would have average 5 made 3 s per game? Kid Kohls and Raf Addison come to mind but who else?

Five per game average? That would be 200 per season. I will say zero.

 

[Ringostar57]

Five per game average? That would be 200 per season. I will say zero.

Kohls averaged 26 points per game, Most of his field goals came on 20 foot + jumps shots.

 

[bpo57]

He didn't go to SU but I can only imagine what Pete Maravich would have done if there was a 3 point line back in the day. The Pistol averaged 44 a game without it. There is a youtube video of Maravich dropping 68 on Clyde Frazier and the NYK one night. I think the ball hit the rim maybe twice.

 

[joct]

Jimmy Lee

 

[Jake]

Few players took a lot of shots from beyond the current three point arc back then. Our memory distorts things. Great shooters took shots from locations that were much farther out than the norm, but the norm back then was inside 15 feet.

I'd say none as well. 5 is a ton.

 

[ORRange]

Jimmy Lee and Marty Headd

 

[orangefog]

Kohls averaged 26 points per game, Most of his field goals came on 20 foot + jumps shots.

And defenses back then would rather give up 20 foot jump shots that were worth the same as layups. He would have had to take about 12 three point shots per game. It is certainly possible that one could take that many three point shots every single game, but I am not sure it would happen.

 

[ORRange]

And defenses back then would rather give up 20 foot jump shots that were worth the same as layups. He would have had to take about 12 three point shots per game. It is certainly possible that one could take that many three point shots every single game, but I am not sure it would happen.

The Kid took more bombs than anyone I ever remember. His range was inside the gym.

 

[orangefog]

The Kid took more bombs than anyone I ever remember. His range was inside the gym.

I don't doubt it, it was before my time. But, my point is, defenses would much rather have a guy shooting that far out when it is worth the same as a layup. If it were a three point shot, the defense would play him much more closely, and likely not allow 12 decent looks from three point range.

 

[stuckinbig11]

Kohls and then a big drop-off before anyone I saw play (I did not see Hicker).

 

[Col. Bleep]

I never saw Kohls...but 5 three's a game???
That's a lot and requires a lot of shots.
Jimmy Lee and Marty Headd were capable of doing it.
And so was one of the most underrated players the Orange ever had, Greg Monroe.
The 3-pointer was added his senior year ('86-87) and he shot 44% from there.
(Of course he had the benefit of playing with 3 NBA level players - Douglas, Coleman & Seikaly-who could score...so he wasn't the top concern for defenses).

 

[dasher]

No one

 

[Ringostar57]

I never saw Kohls...but 5 three's a game???
That's a lot and requires a lot of shots.
Jimmy Lee and Marty Headd were capable of doing it.
And so was one of the most underrated players the Orange ever had, Greg Monroe.
The 3-pointer was added his senior year ('86-87) and he shot 44% from there.
(Of course he had the benefit of playing with 3 NBA level players - Douglas, Coleman & Seikaly-who could score...so he wasn't the top concern for defenses).

I saw Kohls in 33 games at Manley. He usually buried 5 shots from todays 3 point line by half time, flat line drive jumpers. 71-72 played with Dennis Duval who could also knock down shots from distance. Duval 15.8 and Kohls 26.7 ppg nice backcourt. Then you had Wadach and Mike Lee at forwards both about 6-2 and the 6-5 bob Dooms....Roy's Runts. Jimmy Lee could knock them down too but he scored on a lot of run outs could finish with either hand. As far as Greg Monroe I agree...the glue man never took a bad shot.

 

[Cheriehoop]

Jim Boeheim answers the question himself.

"Q: How many points do you think Greg “Kid” Kohls, who averaged 19.2 points a game during his three-varsity career with the Orange between 1969-72, would average now with the 3-point shot?
— Rick Voorhees, Novato, Calif.

JB: Most of Greg’s shots were 3-pointers, so he probably would have had, at least, five more points per game. Minimum. If he wasn’t the best long-ranger shooter we’ve ever had, he’s really close."

http://blog.syracuse.com/orangebasketball/2009/11/you_asked_and_boeheim_answered.html

 

[cuseattle]

Jim Boeheim answers the question himself.

"Q: How many points do you think Greg “Kid” Kohls, who averaged 19.2 points a game during his three-varsity career with the Orange between 1969-72, would average now with the 3-point shot?
— Rick Voorhees, Novato, Calif.

JB: Most of Greg’s shots were 3-pointers, so he probably would have had, at least, five more points per game. Minimum. If he wasn’t the best long-ranger shooter we’ve ever had, he’s really close."

http://blog.syracuse.com/orangebasketball/2009/11/you_asked_and_boeheim_answered.html

Well done. Great post!

 

[Knicks411]

5 three pointers a game is insane, Steph Curry is probably the best 3 point shooter ever, in the NBA, where the game has both more minutes and more possessions per minute (and sure, the line is further back) in his best years, averages about 3.5 per game.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Five per game average? That would be 200 per season. I will say zero.

Well, if you didn't see Kohls play, that's not out of the realm of possibility. He used to shoot from WAAAY outside, and averaged 26 ppg as a senior without the 3 point shot.

 

[IthacaMatt]

5 three pointers a game is insane, Steph Curry is probably the best 3 point shooter ever, in the NBA, where the game has both more minutes and more possessions per minute (and sure, the line is further back) in his best years, averages about 3.5 per game.

We used to average close to 100 ppg in 40 minutes. Our pace used to be insane. Ran and pressed the whole game long.

 

[Knicks411]

We used to average close to 100 ppg in 40 minutes. Our pace used to be insane. Ran and pressed the whole game long.

I know the game was a lot different back then as far as pace goes, but the main point I'm trying to make is that averaging 5 3 pointers a game is ridiculous. Just have a hard time believing anyone could do that.

 

[Cheriehoop]

Well, if you didn't see Kohls play, that's not out of the realm of possibility. He used to shoot from WAAAY outside, and averaged 26 ppg as a senior without the 3 point shot.

I saw him play while visiting my boyfriend (now husband) up at Niagara University Kohl's senior year - Kohls had unbelievable range and had the green light to shoot it. SU was a run and gun team. He had 30+ points 11 times his senior year. He played with Mike Lee(54% FG his first year) who could shoot himself and had some 30+ point games too. Opponents had trouble guarding him, he had no conscience and would and could shoot from anywhere. He was a phenomenal free throw shooter (over 86% his senior year) and with the ball in his hand, he made it tough for opponents to guard him too close especially with Mike Lee on the wing. He would have had more free throws if three pointers existed back then.

Below is a link from Mike Waters book about the legends of SU basketball. there is a huge write up about Kohl's. Hope it works.

https://books.google.com/books?id=j...epage&q=greg kohl syracuse university&f=false

 

[Ringostar57]

The fact is that in the "old days" people who played the game were technically good shooters. One of the nicest strokes from deep was owned by Gene Waldron who played around 80 to 82. Late 60s George Hicker hardly missed from deep in the right corner a good 22 to 25 feet out. When he set up in the corner he always looked over his left shoulder to make sure he wasn't standing on the line. His shooting stroke had a nickname: The Hicker flicker a very compact flick of the wrist high arching rainbow of a shot. Putting up 8 to 12 shots a game from deep was not uncommon and when hot making 7 to 9 was common.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I know the game was a lot different back then as far as pace goes, but the main point I'm trying to make is that averaging 5 3 pointers a game is ridiculous. Just have a hard time believing anyone could do that.

It's a completely different game. Kohls averaged 26 ppg as a senior. He made 10 FGs a game. If you watched him play, he very easily could have averaged 5 of those being outside shots that would have been 3 pointers these days. You also have to remember, with there being no 3 point shot, really far outside jumpers were not as contested as they are today. There was no "bonus" for making it from deep.

 

[TinyManInside]

I think the point that Knicks411 is trying to make, and it is entirely valid, is that Kohls would have been guarded much differently if the shots he was taking were worth 50% more points than they were when we was taking them.

In the entire 3-point era of college basketball history, only one player has ever averaged >5 threes a game (Darin Fitzgerald at Butler), and that was in 86-87, the first year that the 3 pointer was introduced across all conferences. Usually the college leader makes somewhere between 3.8 and 4.5 threes per game.