Class of 2017 SF Michael Porter Jr (MO) to Missouri

[EastCoast2]

OK, Bob.

1)If you have been paying attention to my post and pods as you claim, then you would know that I'm not saying for JB to abandon the regional recruits and just go after the national guys. What I've been saying is that SU has a whole lot going for them when talking history, facilities, conference, etc. So when on occasions if a certain elite talent outside of the region expresses interest, it wouldn't hurt and shouldn't be all that difficult for us to get involved and give it our best shot. It shouldn't matter if Mike Porter lives in the midwest or if Trevon Duval moves out to Texas. Obviously if the recruitment got to a point where the staff realizes that they're wasting time then cool back off and move on. Imagine if JB had his current mindset back when Derrick Coleman was in HS, because the last time I recalled, DC wasn't a regional recruit for a coach that has always "recruited regionally" as you say.

2)Most top programs don't limit themselves to regional recruiting only, so your statement is flawed. Nova has always been a regional program. LOL at UNC being all regional. The program sells itself nationally. Roy won his first chip with Sean May(Indiana), Rashad McCants(New Hampshire), and Marvin Williams(Washington) leading the way. The second chip came with Tyler Hansbrough(Missouri), and this recent final four team had Paige(Iowa) and Jackson(Texas). People might hate me using them as an example, but UConn's four championships are mixed with key contributors from all over the country as well.

And no mention of Duke which may be the ultimate national recruiter. This is Duke's last three recruting classes, 2014-2016:
North Carolina - Ingram, Giles
Nevada - Jeter
California - Thornton
Ohio - Kennard
Missouri - Tatum
Utah - Jackson
Virginia - DeLaurier
Illinois - Okafor
Minnesota - Tyus Jones
Texas - Winslow
Florida - Grayson Allen

 

[Subob1]

OK, Bob.

1)If you have been paying attention to my post and pods as you claim, then you would know that I'm not saying for JB to abandon the regional recruits and just go after the national guys. What I've been saying is that SU has a whole lot going for them when talking history, facilities, conference, etc. So when on occasions if a certain elite talent outside of the region expresses interest, it wouldn't hurt and shouldn't be all that difficult for us to get involved and give it our best shot. It shouldn't matter if Mike Porter lives in the midwest or if Trevon Duval moves out to Texas. Obviously if the recruitment got to a point where the staff realizes that they're wasting time then cool back off and move on. Imagine if JB had his current mindset back when Derrick Coleman was in HS, because the last time I recalled, DC wasn't a regional recruit for a coach that has always "recruited regionally" as you say.

2)Most top programs don't limit themselves to regional recruiting only, so your statement is flawed. Nova has always been a regional program. LOL at UNC being all regional. The program sells itself nationally. Roy won his first chip with Sean May(Indiana), Rashad McCants(New Hampshire), and Marvin Williams(Washington) leading the way. The second chip came with Tyler Hansbrough(Missouri), and this recent final four team had Paige(Iowa) and Jackson(Texas). People might hate me using them as an example, but UConn's four championships are mixed with key contributors from all over the country as well.

Well, this is actually gotten more attention than I expected. You are spot on that SU has a lot going for it. You make the point that in his last hurrah and with all the good mojo (two final 4s), JB should take a good shot, a real shot at a couple of "Bigs". I am making the point that I feel that in his last go around JB should stay well within his comfort zone. You say, "Not so, go for it", build on our national brand. I say the transition is so critical, burdened by recruiting restrictions, play only to your strengths and focus on the top players in the region. We can agree to disagree.

I'll stand by my statement JB always focused regionally. But always focused regionally doesn't translate into ""only. It doesn't mean that when elite recruits reached out or were brought to his attention he didn't react. I thought I was clear on that. Getting onto Derick Coleman. My recollection is that Dave Bing brought Derrick to JBs attention and SU was also actively recruiting Terry Mills also from Michigan so travel for both recruits in a similar geography. Some pundits had Mills as the number 1 recruit in the nation. Both recruits met the test I mentioned above and JB publicly said "I'll take the first one that commits". We got the better end of the deal. JB worked his butt off for Marquis Walker I believe from Illinois. Number 1 recruit in the nation at the time. Came close but he was reportedly steered away from SU because of geography. Lots of other examples. SU was active in the midwest and Michigan particularly when Bing was a highly visible symbol in the area as one of the NBAs and SUs greatest. But time passes and memories fade. So "yes" I agree with you JB recruited outside of his region when the situation was "right". We disagree on whether this is the right time. You say yes, I say no, unless JB is certain the interest of one of these "Bigs" would be mutual.

As to the roster of Duke. Put me down as failing in my reference to Calipari to mention Duke as a selector school. Best combination of academics and quality basketball in all of college basketball in my opinion. My oversight. I didn't intend my reference to Calipari to be definitive but just an example. None of this changes the dominate nature of regional players on this years roster of the three teams I mentioned. Nor does it diminish my implied point you can field a final four team and win the whole enchilada with a regional base of players. Even Oklahoma is heavily regional except for Buddy. A big except.

Some programs do recruit best nationally, you mentioned UCONN. I agree about UCONN but what does their recruiting strategy have to do with what JB should do. Wooden won 10 NCAAs and selected nationally. Same deal. But this is about JB, not UCONN. It's about what JB should do to assure the best transition possible in his final recruiting season. I say, "Do what you do, do best".

 

[syrcuse]

Package deals rarely ever come to fruition.

Kindly google Michael Porter and Trae Young in the same search. There are a bunch of articles mentioning their desire/interest in a package deal. In fact, the first article in the search, USA Today High School BB lists these two as well as a bunch of other recent "package deals".

Their quotes about playing together at the next level have been floating around for some time on MULTIPLE recruiting sites. I'm sure Zags Blog, Skout, Rivaals, etc. have had recent similar articles about the pair. The Orange slanted recruiting sites (i.e. Nunes, otto , fizz, etc.) may not have mentioned it.

My point was...without interest in Young, SU may not be in a position to sway Porter. We and many others are going to need some type of advantage to sign Mr. Porter. Remember his godfather is a college head coach that already has a verbal from his younger brother. We are going to need a LOT of help and effort just to get Porter to visit.

Dean , please confirm for the crowd... Thanks!!


.

 

[jgeorge322]

Is this guy realted to otto? I thought otto was from missouri too and same last name.

 

[MCC]

So "yes" I agree with you JB recruited outside of his region when the situation was "right". We disagree on whether this is the right time. You say yes, I say no, unless JB is certain the interest of one of these "Bigs" would be mutual.

Keep sailing, Bob!

 

[Francis03]

Well, this is actually gotten more attention than I expected. You are spot on that SU has a lot going for it. You make the point that in his last hurrah and with all the good mojo (two final 4s), JB should take a good shot, a real shot at a couple of "Bigs". I am making the point that I feel that in his last go around JB should stay well within his comfort zone. You say, "Not so, go for it", build on our national brand. I say the transition is so critical, burdened by recruiting restrictions, play only to your strengths and focus on the top players in the region. We can agree to disagree.

I'll stand by my statement JB always focused regionally. But always focused regionally doesn't translate into ""only. It doesn't mean that when elite recruits reached out or were brought to his attention he didn't react. I thought I was clear on that. Getting onto Derick Coleman. My recollection is that Dave Bing brought Derrick to JBs attention and SU was also actively recruiting Terry Mills also from Michigan so travel for both recruits in a similar geography. Some pundits had Mills as the number 1 recruit in the nation. Both recruits met the test I mentioned above and JB publicly said "I'll take the first one that commits". We got the better end of the deal. JB worked his butt off for Marquis Walker I believe from Illinois. Number 1 recruit in the nation at the time. Came close but he was reportedly steered away from SU because of geography. Lots of other examples. SU was active in the midwest and Michigan particularly when Bing was a highly visible symbol in the area as one of the NBAs and SUs greatest. But time passes and memories fade. So "yes" I agree with you JB recruited outside of his region when the situation was "right". We disagree on whether this is the right time. You say yes, I say no, unless JB is certain the interest of one of these "Bigs" would be mutual.

As to the roster of Duke. Put me down as failing in my reference to Calipari to mention Duke as a selector school. Best combination of academics and quality basketball in all of college basketball in my opinion. My oversight. I didn't intend my reference to Calipari to be definitive but just an example. None of this changes the dominate nature of regional players on this years roster of the three teams I mentioned. Nor does it diminish my implied point you can field a final four team and win the whole enchilada with a regional base of players. Even Oklahoma is heavily regional except for Buddy. A big except.

Some programs do recruit best nationally, you mentioned UCONN. I agree about UCONN but what does their recruiting strategy have to do with what JB should do. Wooden one 10 NCAAs and selected nationally. Same deal. But this is about JB, not UCONN. It's about what JB should do to assure the best transition possible in his final recruiting season. I say, "Do what you do, do best".

http://syracusefan.com/threads/realistically-whos-coming-our-way.104012/page-4#post-1736459
You might have missed that post, because you're debating with me on things where I have basically accepted JB's stance on his recruiting priorities and know it won't change. My personal preference along with many others is that it would be different but like I said in the link above, it is what it is and JB has the right to go along that path. I'll say this though, if JB is all about staying regional and in his comfort zone, then why even bother offering cats like Porter, Knox, Giles, Simmons, and Gilbert that are all out of his comfort zone? Fans here are always wondering why we don't go after these guys harder, and I tell them the facts why we don't because JB has no interest in coming out of his northeast comfort zone. You're basically saying the same thing in your defense of his stance on this, so I dunno what the disagreement that you have with me here is all about? I'm allowed just like you to have a personal preference on a situation. Doesn't mean that I'm saying JB isn't doing his job right or that I have more bball knowledge than him. Like you said we can agree to disagree, but what you're disagreeing with me on are things that I have already stated as facts and things that us fans of SU will just have to deal with.

 

[Francis03]

Kindly google Michael Porter and Trae Young in the same search. There are a bunch of articles mentioning their desire/interest in a package deal. In fact, the first article in the search, USA Today High School BB lists these two as well as a bunch of other recent "package deals".

Their quotes about playing together at the next level have been floating around for some time on MULTIPLE recruiting sites. I'm sure Zags Blog, Skout, Rivaals, etc. have had recent similar articles about the pair. The Orange slanted recruiting sites (i.e. Nunes, otto , fizz, etc.) may not have mentioned it.

My point was...without interest in Young, SU may not be in a position to sway Porter. We and many others are going to need some type of advantage to sign Mr. Porter. Remember his godfather is a college head coach that already has a verbal from his younger brother. We are going to need a LOT of help and effort just to get Porter to visit.

Dean , please confirm for the crowd... Thanks!!


.

LOL. I got you. Yes, I think most know that even if we went after Porter hard that it would be a tough get. Still I think most would be satisfied if JB at least made an effort to try and get Porter on campus for a visit. Porter had very high interest in SU last year and stated that we were his favorite school growing up before the sanctions and negative crap started to pile up. With this recent final four run and things looking much more positive for the program a year later, fans are feeling more optimistic that if JB were to call now that the interest might still be there.

 

[Subob1]

You aren't seriously arguing that UNC only recruits regionally, are you?

No, I am arguing about JB's recruiting strategy in his last season. I am arguing for "tried and true", "dancing with them that brung ya", "sticking to your knitting", "do what you do do best", "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". And, pointing out JB's regional recruiting strategy was validated as one successful approach to recruiting in that all the final four teams including the national champion, this year, were heavily regionally based.

 

[Subob1]

http://syracusefan.com/threads/realistically-whos-coming-our-way.104012/page-4#post-1736459
You might have missed that post, because you're debating with me on things where I have basically accepted JB's stance on his recruiting priorities and know it won't change. My personal preference along with many others is that it would be different but like I said in the link above, it is what it is and JB has the right to go along that path. I'll say this though, if JB is all about staying regional and in his comfort zone, then why even bother offering cats like Porter, Knox, Giles, Simmons, and Gilbert that are all out of his comfort zone? Fans here are always wondering why we don't go after these guys harder, and I tell them the facts why we don't because JB has no interest in coming out of his northeast comfort zone. You're basically saying the same thing in your defense of his stance on this, so I dunno what the disagreement that you have with me here is all about? I'm allowed just like you to have a personal preference on a situation. Doesn't mean that I'm saying JB isn't doing his job right or that I have more bball knowledge than him. Like you said we can agree to disagree, but what you're disagreeing with me on are things that I have already stated as facts and things that us fans of SU will just have to deal with.

 

[Subob1]

Did miss it. Keep on posting and pod casting. I as so many others on the Board rely on people like yourself with knowledge and passion to keep up the flow of information. An occasional minor difference of opinion isn't about much. I think you wish JB would take a run one last time and I hope he doesn't. This is soon
history and we will be on a new coach with a new plan and hopefully better than ever moments. Be well

 

[Francis03]

Did miss it. Keep on posting and pod casting. I as so many others on the Board rely on people like yourself with knowledge and passion to keep up the flow of information. An occasional minor difference of opinion isn't about much. I think you wish JB would take a run one last time and I hope he doesn't. This is soon
history and we will be on a new coach with a new plan and hopefully better than ever moments. Be well

It's all good man. Nothing wrong with a good debate and difference of opinions at times.

 

[iommi]

Gerry is a very solid recruiter at the moment, with the potential to be much better in the future. Unlike Red, he didn't come in as an assistant with plenty of connections to major HS/AAU programs from various states. He had to grind much harder than others and lay his groundwork the old fashion way. What works in his favor is that he's our youngest assistant and can relate to most of the youngins out there. Most of the players that he has recruited have seem to take a real liking to him and it extends outside of b-ball talk. So far he's responsible for getting Ron Patterson, Matt Moyer, and possibly Dembele. Obviously Patterson wasn't a good look, Moyer has potential to be a real nice building block on future teams, and Dembele could end up being a real gem for us. He had us in play for Mike Porter and Trevon Duval, but we know the stories on those situations. Right now 2017 could be a big year for him because he has us out in front for Green and Diallo. Hard to complain about his recruiting efforts so far.

I want to echo this post. Coach G-Mac is really becoming a huge staff asset. Matt Moyer told me a few times he thinks of Gerry as a family member. He develops a great relationship with his recruits and his low-key approach works.

 

[reedny]

We could be looking at an ENORMOUS class of 2017.

• Coleman graduates
• Roberson graduates
• Malirchi leaves for NBA [probable]
• Lydon leaves for NBA [possible]
• 5th year transfer to join team for 16-17 season [possible]

That sets up a monster class of 2017, especially with Green, Diallo, Tucker, Walker, Bamba, Richards all in play.

Now that we're past the "regional" versus "national" debate, this is an interesting point. The guys that will have eligibility for the 17-18 season (11 ships available) are:

-Howard; Mali (if he doesn't jump this June); Battle; Moyer; Lydon; Chukwu. (edit) This assumes a one-year grad transfer PG in 16-17 (eligibility done) and we don't add anyone else in 2016-17, that leaves 5 (of 11) ship's to fill (good size class).

- If Mali leaves (likely as you say), we have 6 ships to give (big));
- If Mali and either Battle or Lydon leaves, that would be 7 (huge)
- If Mali, Battle and Lydon leave, it could be 8 ships (monster).

I'm surprised the staff gets any sleep.

 

[NYCorange]

Now that we're past the "regional" versus "national" debate, this is an interesting point. The guys that will have eligibility for the 17-18 season (11 ships available) are:

-Howard; Mali (if he doesn't jump this June); Battle; Moyer; Lydon; Chukwu. This assumes we take a one-year grad transfer PG in 16-17 (eligibility done). That leaves 5 (of 11) ship's to fill (good size class).

- If Mali leaves (likely as you say), we have 6 ships to give (big));
- If Mali and either Battle or Lydon leaves, that would be 7 (huge)
- If Mali, Battle and Lydon leave, it could be 8 ships (monster).

I'm surprised the staff gets any sleep.

It would take, I imagine, another final 4 run (and a top 5 regular season) to get all 3 to leave. There's only so much glory to go around.

 

[reedny]

It would take, I imagine, another final 4 run (and a top 5 regular season) to get all 3 to leave. There's only so much glory to go around.

I hear you, but they don't always leave when we think they're "ready". If Mali stays and, as expected, we bring in a quality backup PG and add a quality big (or 2), we'll be loaded next year and it would not surprise me to see the team have a good tourney run and then some NBA defections. If Mali stays and has a good year (consistency?), and Lydon fills out and does what I think he can ... I'm expecting both to jump. Battle's a potential pro player as well, but it's too early to guess on his status.

 

[iommi]

It would take, I imagine, another final 4 run (and a top 5 regular season) to get all 3 to leave. There's only so much glory to go around.

I get your point about the glory being spread around, but the thing is I'd be shocked if Malachi and Lydon stay for more than one more year and Battle obviously has one-and-done talent. Moyer should be at SU for a while. He's hugely talented too but not off the charts athletically. Plus, I doubt Moyer gets enough run next year to make THAT kind of splash.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Now that we're past the "regional" versus "national" debate, this is an interesting point. The guys that will have eligibility for the 17-18 season (11 ships available) are:

-Howard; Mali (if he doesn't jump this June); Battle; Moyer; Lydon; Chukwu. This assumes we take a one-year grad transfer PG in 16-17 (eligibility done). That leaves 5 (of 11) ship's to fill (good size class).

- If Mali leaves (likely as you say), we have 6 ships to give (big));
- If Mali and either Battle or Lydon leaves, that would be 7 (huge)
- If Mali, Battle and Lydon leave, it could be 8 ships (monster).

I'm surprised the staff gets any sleep.

If we have 8 open spots, we will never get that many good players to fill them. The biggest class you can do is about 5 or maybe 6 players, and even then, a couple of them are not going to cut it.

 

[reedny]

If we have 8 open spots, we will never get that many good players to fill them. The biggest class you can do is about 5 or maybe 6 players, and even then, a couple of them are not going to cut it.

We'd only have 8 spots open if all those guys leave, and we only take a grad transfer in 2016-17. If we add anyone else ... someone who plays for more than a year (probably add a big), that would reduce the size of the 2017-18 recruiting class.

Either way, the positive side of having a lot of openings/ships to give is that there's PT available. If (for 2017-18), all the guys with early pro potential jump ship (Mali, Lydon, Battle), then Moyer (PF), Howard (PG) and Chukwu (C) become the presumptive starters. That would create minutes everywhere and leave starting positions open at SG and SF. In that scenario or something like it, you could still get stud recruits for the two starting positions and VERY GOOD players (a step below one/dones) for the other spots because they're only one-deep (or maybe two-deep in the middle if we take a big next year). Francis can provide a more detailed take on this, but at this early stage I don't see us running out of recruiting options.

 

[Francis03]

 

[iommi]

SU should've been putting on the Trunk Monkey (recruiting) Press for this guy. Why we don't shoot for the stars sometimes is very frustrating. Porter actually said last year he Wanted SU to recruit him. Moyer told me last May he was pitching SU to him. He's clear stud and one-and-done but why do we seem like we concede guys like Porter are out of our league (rhetorical question)?

On top of everything else, it looks like geography isn't a huge factor for him. He's looking at schools all around the country, so I doubt playing in CNY would be an issue for him.:bang:

 

[tee1222]

SU should've been putting on the Trunk Monkey (recruiting) Press for this guy. Why we don't shoot for the stars sometimes is very frustrating. Porter actually said last year he Wanted SU to recruit him. Moyer told me last May he was pitching SU to him. He's clear stud and one-and-done but why do we seem like we concede guys like Porter are out of our league (rhetorical question)?

On top of everything else, it looks like geography isn't a huge factor for him. He's looking at schools all around the country, so I doubt playing in CNY would be an issue for him.:bang:

Kind of player to take over games. Unlimited range, freak athlete, can do just about everything on the court. Agree with iommi, let's push for this guy!

 

[SoBeCuse]

SU should've been putting on the Trunk Monkey (recruiting) Press for this guy. Why we don't shoot for the stars sometimes is very frustrating. Porter actually said last year he Wanted SU to recruit him. Moyer told me last May he was pitching SU to him. He's clear stud and one-and-done but why do we seem like we concede guys like Porter are out of our league (rhetorical question)?

On top of everything else, it looks like geography isn't a huge factor for him. He's looking at schools all around the country, so I doubt playing in CNY would be an issue for him.:bang:

It's unfortunate. Total stud. Kid apparently really likes SU. Obviously geography doesn't matter if he is taking visits from the staffs of Washington and Texas A&M. Someone wake up JB.

 

[iommi]

Kind of player to take over games. Unlimited range, freak athlete, can do just about everything on the court. Agree with iommi, let's push for this guy!

We should've been pushing all along. He was the best player on the court at the Mary Kline, tee, and you could see it right away. I was there early to do interviews and he looked like a star just shooting around casually. Guys like that, you can't casually recruit, as you know. I know we had to lock down 2016, but Porter actively telling guys he wanted SU to recruit him is:

 

[Francis03]

We should've been pushing all along. He was the best player on the court at the Mary Kline, tee, and you could see it right away. I was there early to do interviews and he looked like a star just shooting around casually. Guys like that, you can't casually recruit, as you know. I know we had to lock down 2016, but Porter actively telling guys he wanted SU to recruit him is:

Chill out, iommi. Before you start another "national" vs "regional" recruiting debate.

 

[iommi]

Chill out, iommi. Before you start another "national" vs "regional" recruiting debate.

I stayed out of that fray. Some of those posts were longer than "War & Peace." LOL.

Porter and Trevon are filthy. Can't we get these coaches on an Amtrak?