Shafer Transfers

[Bambrewer]

Good point. The answer to that is depth. I hate to see it, but a team needs bodies to practice, needs bodies to be the next man up. So while you may not be on the two deep, i know its a sorry consilation prize, but you are HELPING the team.

Like i said, its a tough situation. I can only speak in hypotheticals, but if i had a kid being recruited i would tell him to pick the school, not the coaches/system etc. Coaches get fired, coaches leave. Your chance at the NFL is SUPER SLIM. You never know what the future holds. The degree is forever though. And like someone mentioned above, i would tell my kid if possible to graduate in 3 so he has options. I did a summer session at SU, if the Football players do both, graduating in 3 is certainly possible.

I understand the way it helps the team I am only saying if you tell a kid your not playing here your not going to get much from him. Imagine saying your not good enough to play for me but go out there and get smashed around on my practice field... what kind of effort is that kid giving?

 

[Bambrewer]

Good point. The answer to that is depth. I hate to see it, but a team needs bodies to practice, needs bodies to be the next man up. So while you may not be on the two deep, i know its a sorry consilation prize, but you are HELPING the team.

Like i said, its a tough situation. I can only speak in hypotheticals, but if i had a kid being recruited i would tell him to pick the school, not the coaches/system etc. Coaches get fired, coaches leave. Your chance at the NFL is SUPER SLIM. You never know what the future holds. The degree is forever though. And like someone mentioned above, i would tell my kid if possible to graduate in 3 so he has options. I did a summer session at SU, if the Football players do both, graduating in 3 is certainly possible.

Also I'm not talking about a kid who could be a next man up I'm talking about kids being told you will not play here

 

[bcubs9497]

Good point. The answer to that is depth. I hate to see it, but a team needs bodies to practice, needs bodies to be the next man up. So while you may not be on the two deep, i know its a sorry consilation prize, but you are HELPING the team.

Like i said, its a tough situation. I can only speak in hypotheticals, but if i had a kid being recruited i would tell him to pick the school, not the coaches/system etc. Coaches get fired, coaches leave. Your chance at the NFL is SUPER SLIM. You never know what the future holds. The degree is forever though. And like someone mentioned above, i would tell my kid if possible to graduate in 3 so he has options. I did a summer session at SU, if the Football players do both, graduating in 3 is certainly possible.

You can tell him that till you're blue in the face (I did). Still doesn't help. To a recruited kid the coach IS the university.

 

[Deano]

Also I'm not talking about a kid who could be a next man up I'm talking about kids being told you will not play here

I had heard that with prior staff being the case too.

 

[GoSU96]

which is too bad. I for one hope they all stay, and wished the others would have. But I certainly understand, kids should do what is best for them.

You weren't around for Doug Marrone, but he came in and cleared half the roster (before his first season.) I don't recall the numbers exactly but had to be 20-30 kids that first year and he even booted some starters. Other kids bought in, assimilated and found their roles. Would hope the rest of these Cuse kids, like Shy, will do the same.

And went 21-17 with two bowl wins in years 2-4.

Let's hope history at least repeats, if not exceeded.

 

[CousCuse]

Good point. The answer to that is depth. I hate to see it, but a team needs bodies to practice, needs bodies to be the next man up. So while you may not be on the two deep, i know its a sorry consilation prize, but you are HELPING the team.

Like i said, its a tough situation. I can only speak in hypotheticals, but if i had a kid being recruited i would tell him to pick the school, not the coaches/system etc. Coaches get fired, coaches leave. Your chance at the NFL is SUPER SLIM. You never know what the future holds. The degree is forever though. And like someone mentioned above, i would tell my kid if possible to graduate in 3 so he has options. I did a summer session at SU, if the Football players do both, graduating in 3 is certainly possible.

Coaching stability is a huge reason programs become successful and stay and become more successful .

 

[GoSU96]

I think the staff has been honest and I think even the kids who are leaving feel they were treated fairly by the staff. Even if they didn't like what they told them at least they weren't given false hope only to ride the bench or play practice squad and never see the field.

That's the honorable way of doing it.

 

[orangeinjersey]

I understand the way it helps the team I am only saying if you tell a kid your not playing here your not going to get much from him. Imagine saying your not good enough to play for me but go out there and get smashed around on my practice field... what kind of effort is that kid giving?

I hear you Bam. But again, what is the alternative, dropping down to FCS or Rutgers to "get snaps"? I left SU with 88k in Student loan debt. That will be paid off this year, just about 12 years later. Im throwing a party that day i send the last payment. Do you know how much different my life would be if i had that $500-$800 back in my pocket every month? A lot different.

An SU connection got me my first job out of college. I have a very wonderful and fulfilling engineering career at one of the largest firms in the country. They're kids, i get it. They dont know everything. But sometimes they need help in "seeing the big picture". Football is a means to an end, not the end itself.

 

[GoSU96]

I agree with that. I think they could have some type of waiver process where if the coach and player agree to a release they could approve it in cases of coaching changes .

Yep, immediately eligible elsewhere to play if new staff and player are in agreement on separating is the right way to handle it. A kid shouldn't be forced to lower division or lose another year on the field if they red shirted in a case like this.

 

[Bambrewer]

I hear you Bam. But again, what is the alternative, dropping down to FCS or Rutgers to "get snaps"? I left SU with 88k in Student loan debt. That will be paid off this year, just about 12 years later. Im throwing a party that day i send the last payment. Do you know how much different my life would be if i had that $500-$800 back in my pocket every month? A lot different.

An SU connection got me my first job out of college. I have a very wonderful and fulfilling engineering career at one of the largest firms in the country. They're kids, i get it. They dont know everything. But sometimes they need help in "seeing the big picture". Football is a means to an end, not the end itself.

I know exactly what you are saying and I agree. I'm just saying kids should have a shot to play at another school. I completely agree the degree and the connection are the most valuable part for most of these kids. And I think most get that by the time sophomore year rolls up and they see where they are at.

 

[SoBristol]

Many good points and observations in this thread. I am sure kids are unsettled when the head coach who recruited him is replaced, with his position coach leaving as well.

And then there is this. SU has had 3 wins, 4 wins and 4 wins in the past 3 seasons. Any coach who wants to change that pattern is going to have to upgrade recruiting with kids who are able to play early, bring in a couple of jucos, a couple of grad transfers, and create competition for positions.

 

[Newhouser]

I am curious as to how the coach dismissal can be handled properly? I mean flowery language doesn't change the eventual message of you haven't won enough and we are moving on. Thanks for your service. It stinks for the kids, I get that, but I'm not sure how you do it tactfully.

 

[orangeinjersey]

I am curious as to how the coach dismissal can be handled properly? I mean flowery language doesn't change the eventual message of you haven't won enough and we are moving on. Thanks for your service. It stinks for the kids, I get that, but I'm not sure how you do it tactfully.

there is no good way to deliver bad news. Like a gf breaking up with you, or your boss telling you you are being laid off. It sucks, but life is full of these scenarios. Learn from it and move on.

 

[CousCuse]

there is no good way to deliver bad news. Like a gf breaking up with you, or your boss telling you you are being laid off. It sucks, but life is full of these scenarios. Learn from it and move on.

You are really smug .

 

[orangeinjersey]

You are really smug .

hate to be blunt, but its true. What did i say that wasnt true?

 

[CousCuse]

hate to be blunt, but its true. What did i say that wasnt true?

If you are going to open this can of worms then I don't think you have thought this through .

 

[chakka3421]

For the kids transferring out, I wish them the best and thank them for committing to SU in the first place.

 

[bcubs9497]

there is no good way to deliver bad news. Like a gf breaking up with you, or your boss telling you you are being laid off. It sucks, but life is full of these scenarios. Learn from it and move on.

There most certainly is a way.

 

[TheCusian]

There most certainly is a way.

Agreed. 100% honest assessment delivered with the empathy that matches a coach/player relationship. It's most def not a "job" - it's more complicated of a relationship.

(Side note: I'm 100% sure that Shafer and his guys would be having some of the same convo's with some of the guys they've recruited, had they been retained. It is different in that those coaches recruited them in the 1st place - but I'm confident we'd be losing a few every year regardless. There are "not a fit in the system" guys and then there are "didn't pan out how we thought" guys.)

 

[tep624]

We're at a total of 8 right now that have left. That's roughly 10% of the roster. I imagine we'll be near 15% when all is said and done.

To put it in perspective, Marrone was at about 35-40%. The program was clearly healthier than what he inherited from GROB, but these things are inevitable with any management change, whether it's business or in this case college athletics.

 

[Shermthegeneral]

This thread sounds to me like we need to give everyone a participation trophy! If we really need to feel sorry for every student athlete that something doesn't go their way, we will be here for a long time! Are we going to continue to make excuses for people who aren't good enough and always give them a pass? Sports is just like business, the best succeed and everyone else finds their place down the pecking order. If my manager gets fired or leaves the company and all of a sudden I have a new manager, I work my butt off to impress them and show how I can fit in with their goals. things like this happen at every program and in my opinion, helps teach these young athletes how to overcome adversity.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

This thread sounds to me like we need to give everyone a participation trophy! If we really need to feel sorry for every student athlete that something doesn't go their way, we will be here for a long time! Are we going to continue to make excuses for people who aren't good enough and always give them a pass? Sports is just like business, the best succeed and everyone else finds their place down the pecking order. If my manager gets fired or leaves the company and all of a sudden I have a new manager, I work my butt off to impress them and show how I can fit in with their goals. things like this happen at every program and in my opinion, helps teach these young athletes how to overcome adversity.

That escalated quickly.

 

[CousCuse]

This thread sounds to me like we need to give everyone a participation trophy! If we really need to feel sorry for every student athlete that something doesn't go their way, we will be here for a long time! Are we going to continue to make excuses for people who aren't good enough and always give them a pass? Sports is just like business, the best succeed and everyone else finds their place down the pecking order. If my manager gets fired or leaves the company and all of a sudden I have a new manager, I work my butt off to impress them and show how I can fit in with their goals. things like this happen at every program and in my opinion, helps teach these young athletes how to overcome adversity.

This is a multi-billion dollar industry where many people make millions of dollars a year and these young people that it relies upon have little or no rights or representation .

 

[Bambrewer]

Ah the internet doesn't disappoint again

 

[orangeinjersey]

Ah the internet doesn't disappoint again

dont let a few posters here spoil the bunch.