Sorry, but it is time...

[Cusefan0307]

I think people are overreacting to a couple disappointing losses. I don't think this team is much, if any, worse than it was last year. It was a pretty bad team last year and it's a pretty bad team this year. We'll see how things are in ACC play, but right now, compared to last year:

- More points per game
- Less points allowed per game
- Higher TS%
- Slightly higher TS% allowed
- Drawing fouls at a higher rate
- Rebounding at a higher rate (both offensively and defensively)

Looking at individual players:
- Battle has improved significantly in terms of scoring efficiency
- Brissett has regressed slightly due to his FT% declining
- Chukwu has improved in terms of scoring efficiency and block percentage
- Dolezaj has improved significantly in terms of scoring efficiency
- Howard has fallen off a cliff efficiency wise, though his sample size is particularly small since he missed
- Carey and Hughes have both been solid while Buddy has been horrific

I think people overrated the hell out of our players in the offseason (not just here but nationwide in the media too) and came into this season with a super inflated opinion of what this team was. I understand that people expect guys to improve, but with Battle and Howard in particular, I thought those two were topped out already. The only real disappointment IMO is the lack of progress from Brissett. I was hoping he would show improvement this year, but people were acting like he was a 1st round NBA talent despite the only thing really standing out about his game at all is that he did a decent job rebounding as a freshman and was a pretty good free throw shooter.

Edit: This isn't to say that I think Boeheim is doing a good job of coaching this team/drawing up plays, etc., or that I'm satisfied with what our players are at this point in their careers. I think the offensive scheme Boeheim coaches is pretty much the worst possible scheme for this collection of players personally, so it's just a bad match on both ends.

This is college. Not the NBA. Teams are supposed to get better. The 2013 Nova NIT team won the National Title when they were seniors.

 

[Melancer46]

Melancer46, this program has been mediocre for the last 5 years. What you say we’re “overreacting” to are the indicators (ODU/UB losses) and the confirmation of the descent of the program.

To be clear, I have no problem with anyone saying that this program has been mediocre recently and that it's unacceptable. I agree 100% with that. It's disappointing that we can't field a good or great team anymore. My point is simply that I never thought the preseason expectations made sense. Returning all of your players from a pretty bad team without a significant influx of talent isn't really a reason to expect this team to suddenly be great IMO. In particular, the guy that we count on the most showed zero improvement or possibly regression last year and we came into the season expecting a massive leap from him? It always defied logic in my opinion. The simple fact of the matter is that this team isn't very talented and is also glued to an offensive system that exacerbates their issues. A heavy pick-and-roll offense is a great thing if you have the personnel to run it: guards that can finish at the rim, shoot if the defense goes under the screen, and make good passes out of it; wings that can shoot or make backside cuts; and big men that can set good screens, catch the pass as the roll/pop man, and finish. This team has none of those pieces. I don't really get how anyone looked at the makeup of this team and thought that they'd be great.

Edit: I think there's a difference between expectations for the program and expectations for each year's individual team. This program is performing at an unacceptable level IMO. This team is performing pretty much exactly as I think we should have expected this year.

 

[Fly Rodder]

We'll see how things are in ACC play, but right now, compared to last year:

It's hard to compare overall stats, which includes conference play, from last season to stats for this season, which is just OOC.

 

[Fly Rodder]

This team has none of those pieces. I don't really get how anyone looked at the makeup of this team and thought that they'd be great.

Good point about the lack of capable guards. This team is pretty much a 7'2" center with no offensive ability and four undersized PF/SFs trying to run a free wheeling offense. Carey has the makings of a good PG, but he's not there yet. Next year's recruiting class doesn't inspire much confidence about a better 19-20 team.

 

[Cusefan0307]

To be clear, I have no problem with anyone saying that this program has been mediocre recently and that it's unacceptable. I agree 100% with that. It's disappointing that we can't field a good or great team anymore. My point is simply that I never thought the preseason expectations made sense. Returning all of your players from a pretty bad team without a significant influx of talent isn't really a reason to expect this team to suddenly be great IMO. In particular, the guy that we count on the most showed zero improvement or possibly regression last year and we came into the season expecting a massive leap from him? It always defied logic in my opinion. The simple fact of the matter is that this team isn't very talented and is also glued to an offensive system that exacerbates their issues. A heavy pick-and-roll offense is a great thing if you have the personnel to run it: guards that can finish at the rim, shoot if the defense goes under the screen, and make good passes out of it; wings that can shoot or make backside cuts; and big men that can set good screens, catch the pass as the roll/pop man, and finish. This team has none of those pieces. I don't really get how anyone looked at the makeup of this team and thought that they'd be great.

You have your opinion. Fine.

We've had a lot of guys in our heyday improve year over year in the past when we were winning 25 plus games a year. Freshman who looked lost that ended up being dynamite as Sophomore(Kris Joseph comes to mind).

To say improvement defies logic is just not an accurate statement. Players are supposed to get better in college.

Syracuse isn't Duke. We aren't getting a bunch of one and dones.

We can compete like Villanova and develop guys. Ryan Archiadiacono wasn't very talented. He was a MOP as a senior. He, Darrun Hillard, and Daniel Ochefu won a FF after losing 14 games.

 

[tbonezone]

"I don't really get how anyone looked at the makeup of this team and thought that they'd be great.[/QUOTE]


anyone ? scroll up and read the IGGYs

 

[Melancer46]

It's hard to compare overall stats, which includes conference play, from last season to stats for this season, which is just OOC.

Logically you would think there will be at least some decline in conference play. For what it's worth though, again looking at last year's numbers:

52.5% TS% Overall vs. 52.0% TS% OOC
75.7% DRB% Overall vs. 77.8% OOC
37% ORB% Overall vs. 40.7% OOC
50.7% TS% allowed Overall vs. 49.3% OOC

So once we got into conference play, TS% actually improved while the other numbers declined a little bit. If we see roughly the same trend as last year, I would expect the overall conclusion to be roughly the same, which is to say that this team hasn't really regressed and might be slightly improved if anything.

 

[OttoMets]

He had a very solid first half. Then simply lost his mind in the second.

Strange team. Again.

I’m lost.

Defensively, yes. He was active and elevating for rebounds.

Offensively, all the problems are still there, the only difference was that in the first half the ball went through the hoop. He's still driving to five feet out and then taking difficult fadeaways. He seems to be shying away from contact.

 

[Melancer46]

You have your opinion. Fine.

We've had a lot of guys in our heyday improve year over year in the past when we were winning 25 plus games a year. Freshman who looked lost that ended up being dynamite as Sophomore(Kris Joseph comes to mind).

To say improvement defies logic is just not an accurate statement. Players are supposed to get better in college.

Syracuse isn't Duke. We aren't getting a bunch of one and dones.

We can compete like Villanova and develop guys. Ryan Archiadiacono wasn't very talented. He was a MOP as a senior. He, Darrun Hillard, and Daniel Ochefu won a FF after losing 14 games.

Of the guys you mentioned:

Joseph: Improving from freshman year to sophomore year is kinda my point. Joseph improved (and then basically peaked as a sophomore). Battle got worse and then we expected massive improvement in year 3 for some reason.

Arcidiacono: He was more or less the same player all four years at Villanova with some slight improvements. He happened to play above his usual level in the tournament his senior year.

Hilliard: He showed significant improvement as a sophomore, which gave you hope that he could do the same as a junior, and he did.

Ochefu: He significantly improved every year.

My point is that with Battle in particular, people were projecting massive improvement from him (some in the national media even had him as a contender for the Naismith award this year!) after he showed zero improvement or maybe regression last year. Brissett was a question-mark; you'd obviously hope to see improvement but it's not really rare to see guys flatline either. Howard showed hope of improvement this year, and we'll see if he gets it going as the season goes on, but he's always been an extremely inefficient player.

I don't really see where you'd expect the massive improvements to come from that would propel this team to being among the best in the country, especially when you factor in how poor of a fit this offensive structure is for our players' skillsets.

 

[TinyManInside]

Boeheim's not going to leave of his own accord, which means that the administration is going to have to have the stones to remove him at some point. It's going to be a really tough situation for the university. The more we keep stacking 12 to 15 loss seasons on top of each other, the less desirable the job becomes.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Of the guys you mentioned:

Joseph: Improving from freshman year to sophomore year is kinda my point. Joseph improved (and then basically peaked as a sophomore). Battle got worse and then we expected massive improvement in year 3 for some reason.

Arcidiacono: He was more or less the same player all four years at Villanova with some slight improvements. He happened to play above his usual level in the tournament his senior year.

Hilliard: He showed significant improvement as a sophomore, which gave you hope that he could do the same as a junior, and he did.

Ochefu: He significantly improved every year.

My point is that with Battle in particular, people were projecting massive improvement from him (some in the national media even had him as a contender for the Naismith award this year!) after he showed zero improvement or maybe regression last year. Brissett was a question-mark; you'd obviously hope to see improvement but it's not really rare to see guys flatline either. Howard showed hope of improvement this year, and we'll see if he gets it going as the season goes on, but he's always been an extremely inefficient player.

I don't really see where you'd expect the massive improvements to come from that would propel this team to being among the best in the country, especially when you factor in how poor of a fit this offensive structure is for our players' skillsets.

You're getting way into the minutiae instead of looking at this from the top down, but considering we added Hughes/Carey and we are still the same is definitely on the coaching.

I never expected Battle to improve much. I did expect Brissett and Marek to be better. They both are the same. Lack of player development is a problem.

Howard getting hurt set the team back so we have no idea what his ceiling is.

The centers have regressed.

Even if nobody improved and we still added Hughes/Carey we should be better than we are just by having more options.

 

[AZOrange]

Logically you would think there will be at least some decline in conference play. For what it's worth though, again looking at last year's numbers:

52.5% TS% Overall vs. 52.0% TS% OOC
75.7% DRB% Overall vs. 77.8% OOC
37% ORB% Overall vs. 40.7% OOC
50.7% TS% allowed Overall vs. 49.3% OOC

So once we got into conference play, TS% actually improved while the other numbers declined a little bit. If we see roughly the same trend as last year, I would expect the overall conclusion to be roughly the same, which is to say that this team hasn't really regressed and might be slightly improved if anything.

This is where TS% and efficiency numbers don’t tell the whole story. The product you see with your eyes is arguably worse

 

[OttoMets]

You're getting way into the minutiae instead of looking at this from the top down, but considering we added Hughes/Carey and we are still the same is definitely on the coaching.

I never expected Battle to improve much. I did expect Brissett and Marek to be better. They both are the same. Lack of player development is a problem.

Howard getting hurt set the team back so we have no idea what his ceiling is.

The centers have regressed.

Even if nobody improved and we still added Hughes/Carey we should be better than we are just by having more options.

I think the personnel changes play into the worst instincts of the coach.

Carey's got potential, but we've got a veteran-friendly coach who's got no patience for young guys' turnovers. So he'll play the injured senior over Carey.

Hughes is a poor man's Battle. But because Battle's back, Boeheim's chosen to force both of them into the lineup (Hughes out of position).

Which bumps into Marek down the line. He's lost his role, he's got no rhythm, but...

...Boeheim has limited respect for the center role. So Marek inexplicably gets minutes there. Where he's totally ineffective and also...

...costs Chukwu and Sidibe much-needed reps, Sidibe because he's spent too much time rehabilitating an injury at the expense of playing ball, Chukwu because he looks like a guy who's forgotten how to play basketball half the time.

It's a mess.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Howard getting hurt set the team back so we have no idea what his ceiling is.

I think we're pretty much seeing it. I don't think Frank has much left, injury or not (I know he's been injured for most of his college career). But at some point, especially for a college senior, we have to go on what information we have and not projections. He got better with FT% and 3PT% every season until this one, but his junior year was probably the best he can be. I don't think Frank's injury has had much effect on this offense. I really don't. He's played with Battle and most of the team for three seasons. They know who they're playing with out there.

In a perfect world, Frank would be two inches taller and a pretty good college SF.

 

[AZOrange]

I think the personnel changes play into the worst instincts of the coach.

Carey's got potential, but we've got a veteran-friendly coach who's got no patience for young guys' turnovers. So he'll play the injured senior over Carey.

Hughes is a poor man's Battle. But because Battle's back, Boeheim's chosen to force both of them into the lineup (Hughes out of position).

Which bumps into Marek down the line. He's lost his role, he's got no rhythm, but...

...Boeheim has limited respect for the center role. So Marek inexplicably gets minutes there. Where he's totally ineffective and also...

...costs Chukwu and Sidibe much-needed reps, Sidibe because he's spent too much time rehabilitating an injury at the expense of playing ball, Chukwu because he looks like a guy who's forgotten how to play basketball half the time.

It's a mess.

We MUST stop forcing players into positions they don’t play. Frank is not a pg. mD is not a 5. Hughes is not a 3

 

[Otto'd]

The Hopkins coach in waiting deal should NEVER have been rescinded. In 10-15 years when we are still digging out of JB's final years hubris (and yeah, he earned the right, but that doesnt mean its best thing for program) we will look back at that as a big turning point . This was supposed to be Hops first year.

Now we are just prolonging mediocrity in recruiting and floor performance.


Remember this?
Syracuse officials announce that Mike Hopkins will succeed Jim Boeheim in 3 years

 

[cuseguy]

We MUST stop forcing players into positions they don’t play. Frank is not a pg. mD is not a 5. Hughes is not a 3

Someone posted earlier, we’re playing a center with little ability and 4 SF/PFs. Howard was never a PG. He’s too slow and doesn’t pass particularly well. Dolezaj is probably the best passer, but he seems lost right now.

 

[TinyManInside]

I think the personnel changes play into the worst instincts of the coach.

Carey's got potential, but we've got a veteran-friendly coach who's got no patience for young guys' turnovers. So he'll play the injured senior over Carey.

Hughes is a poor man's Battle. But because Battle's back, Boeheim's chosen to force both of them into the lineup (Hughes out of position).

Which bumps into Marek down the line. He's lost his role, he's got no rhythm, but...

...Boeheim has limited respect for the center role. So Marek inexplicably gets minutes there. Where he's totally ineffective and also...

...costs Chukwu and Sidibe much-needed reps, Sidibe because he's spent too much time rehabilitating an injury at the expense of playing ball, Chukwu because he looks like a guy who's forgotten how to play basketball half the time.

It's a mess.

This is pretty much the best evaluation of this team that I've seen on the board this year. Great post.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

Boeheim's not going to leave of his own accord, which means that the administration is going to have to have the stones to remove him at some point. It's going to be a really tough situation for the university. The more we keep stacking 12 to 15 loss seasons on top of each other, the less desirable the job becomes.

We are an upper level ACC team and draw more fans than half of the NBA. Not many coaches will turn us down.

 

[SUFan44]

We are an upper level ACC team and draw more fans than half of the NBA. Not many coaches will turn us down.

I think this is true. However, I don't think you can plug and play any coach in at Syracuse and have them succeed. Similar to football, need to find the right fit. I think there are more right fits for basketball than football but times have also changed. There's more parity than ever before and Syracuse can't just go into a gym and handpick talent.

 

[Otto'd]

We are an upper level ACC team and draw more fans than half of the NBA. Not many coaches will turn us down.

We will do fine there. No doubt.

But will we have to wait until Boeheim is 90 to find out?

 

[44cuse]

I have been a fan for over 30 years and an ardent Boeheim supporter. This is maybe one of the most disheartening seasons ever because of the early expectations and the addition of some much needed talent to the team. I wish I knew if it was Boeheim losing his touch as an offensive mind or just a lack of talent. With two supposed NBA talents in Brissett and Battle, I am simply perplexed. We know our weakness in the middle but if I had to blame one facet of the game it would be guard play. Sure, Howard made some 3's tonight and can play defense but I loathe the slow tempo which is not the hallmark of SU basketball. Carey has potential but is green. I don't care what anyone says..Howard may have some decent games but is not the answer. There is plenty of blame or excuses to go around here but I am just scratching my head saying What!! We are wallowing in LESS than mediocrity.

“Less than mediocrity” is exactly right. WhT perplexes me are how there are so many people who can write it off with “tourney runs”.

44cuse

 

[Melancer46]

You're getting way into the minutiae instead of looking at this from the top down, but considering we added Hughes/Carey and we are still the same is definitely on the coaching.

I never expected Battle to improve much. I did expect Brissett and Marek to be better. They both are the same. Lack of player development is a problem.

Howard getting hurt set the team back so we have no idea what his ceiling is.

The centers have regressed.

Even if nobody improved and we still added Hughes/Carey we should be better than we are just by having more options.

I wouldn't agree at all that Marek is the same. He's pretty drastically increased his shooting range this season. Literally 6% of his shot attempts last year were 3 pointers compared to almost 30% of his shot attempts this year. He's already made more 3 pointers this season than he did all of last year. He's also improved his finishing at the rim so far this year, shooting 90% at the rim at the moment compared to 67.2% last year (which is still very good in its own right). It's hard to read too much into this since his role on the team has been reduced so much, but the underlying results with Dolezaj are actually very good so far this season.

Brissett has shown very limited improvement across the board along with his 3 point shooting dropping off a bit and his free throw shooting dropping off a cliff.

Sidibe has really struggled finishing at the rim so far this season after being solid last year, but he has at least showed some improvement in terms of rebounding, blocking shots, and a huge decrease in his turnover rate. If he can get his finishing back up to what it was as a freshman, I'd be pretty satisfied with his progress, especially with the injuries he's already battled so far in his time here.

Chukwu is basically the same exact player he was last year; he's just fouling at too high of a rate right now.

 

[Millhouse]

Boeheim's not going to leave of his own accord, which means that the administration is going to have to have the stones to remove him at some point. It's going to be a really tough situation for the university. The more we keep stacking 12 to 15 loss seasons on top of each other, the less desirable the job becomes.

i've accepted that for a long time. it's the price you pay for for decades of success and stability. now is the time you need that coach in waiting.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I wouldn't agree at all that Marek is the same. He's pretty drastically increased his shooting range this season. Literally 6% of his shot attempts last year were 3 pointers compared to almost 30% of his shot attempts this year. He's already made more 3 pointers this season than he did all of last year. He's also improved his finishing at the rim so far this year, shooting 90% at the rim at the moment compared to 67.2% last year (which is still very good in its own right). It's hard to read too much into this since his role on the team has been reduced so much, but the underlying results with Dolezaj are actually very good so far this season.

Brissett has shown very limited improvement across the board along with his 3 point shooting dropping off a bit and his free throw shooting dropping off a cliff.

Sidibe has really struggled finishing at the rim so far this season after being solid last year, but he has at least showed some improvement in terms of rebounding, blocking shots, and a huge decrease in his turnover rate. If he can get his finishing back up to what it was as a freshman, I'd be pretty satisfied with his progress, especially with the injuries he's already battled so far in his time here.

Chukwu is basically the same exact player he was last year; he's just fouling at too high of a rate right now.

Have you watched the games or are you going off stats because it seems like you're just reading CBB reference?

Marek passes up wide open opportunities for worse opportunities each game. That's not helping the team.