Team Just Looks Better w Long...

[rrlbees]

their first 6 drives (up to the point it was 30-7), they had 16 points in real life, 20 points if the refs weren't horrible. 21 of their 70 plays came after it was 30-7 and we called off the dogs. compare to maryland, they had 14 possessions where they were trying to score and 20 points

If the defensive TDs contribute to a blow out, then I agree. If they don't, then I'm not sure there is much difference. So across a season, if there are blowouts, then yes defensive TDs reduce offensive possessions. On a game by game basis, maybe not.

 

[OrangePA]

I think everybody is enjoying the 1 1/2 game respite. But now we face the rest of the season, which hinges largely on a teenager. Strange situation.

Certainly during the pre-season nobody figured that the key to success this year would be AJ Long.

 

[sutomcat]

We're still seeing some bubble screens, but the difference is that they are going for positive yardage. I feel like the smallest bubble screen gain since Lester took over has been 6 yards.

Does Lester just count better? Does AJ count better?

I think the number of bubble screens thrown is down quite dramatically since Lester took over. One of the problems with the GM bubble screens was that they were called too often. Any play, no matter how good it is, will become less effective when called too often.

For the record, I don't think GM wanted to run bubble screens as often as he did. The bubble was a check in his offense that Hunt went to a lot when the defense presented certain looks, often blitzes. It isn't hard to break down film and see what an OC will do when presented with certain looks. Opposing teams saw they could get Syracuse to throw bubble screens by presenting certain things to Hunt. Sadly, the defenses didn't have to expose themselves to situations where they were out numbered to force many of the bubble passes, so it was a great way to make it easy to defend the Syracuse offense.

I think GM had some weaknesses in his scheme, some fundamental flaws that led to him getting out coached regularly by savvy defensive coordinators.

I am not sure how good Lester is but I think we can say he knows enough to not fall into this trap. When he takes what the defense gives him, the offense will at least be put into positions where they have a good chance to be successful.

 

[Crusty]

I have to admit. I have not watched a replay of the WF game. So, I probably do not have enough information. And I have never purported to be an X and O fan.

I do recall seeing bubble screens against FSU. And early in the year I saw split TEs - getting Parris back is probably a factor in that regard. So, I'm not sure that we are seeing a lot of change.

It may be true that Lester is using more roll outs but that is probably because Long is better able to do it - he simply quicker and has a better touch on the kinds of passes that are made out of that kind of play.

GM was using a half dozen bubble screens per half and Lester has used them hardly at all.
Bear in mind that Lester used the loose formation almost every play and that is a big change. Also, Custis played when JP was not available.

I think the differences will become more and more apparent to everyone as time goes on.

 

[Finwad32]

This is the thing about Bubble Screens. Yes, they're a pass, but, it's looked at by an offensive coach as a running play with a long handoff. More risk involved indeed. They're just trying to get their guys on the edge with a numbers advantage.

 

[Millhouse]

The bubble was a check in his offense that Hunt went to a lot when the defense presented certain looks, often blitzes.

That's the way it is in most offenses but I don't believe that's how SU did it. There is just no way any QB checked into some of those bubble screens that were doomed. If Hunt is so consistently wrong about that, they could've just removed that check. We'll never really know but I think those were designed (poorly).

remember the "extension of the running game" quote

what were the certain things they could present to hunt to get him to throw it? so many times they outnumbered the WR. what they were presenting would get any QB to run it if there is actually a read involved

dug out an old screen grab. what were they showing here that fooled hunt?

 

[Crusty]

I think the number of bubble screens thrown is down quite dramatically since Lester took over. One of the problems with the GM bubble screens was that they were called too often. Any play, no matter how good it is, will become less effective when called too often.

For the record, I don't think GM wanted to run bubble screens as often as he did. The bubble was a check in his offense that Hunt went to a lot when the defense presented certain looks, often blitzes. It isn't hard to break down film and see what an OC will do when presented with certain looks. Opposing teams saw they could get Syracuse to throw bubble screens by presenting certain things to Hunt. Sadly, the defenses didn't have to expose themselves to situations where they were out numbered to force many of the bubble passes, so it was a great way to make it easy to defend the Syracuse offense.

I think GM had some weaknesses in his scheme, some fundamental flaws that led to him getting out coached regularly by savvy defensive coordinators.

I am not sure how good Lester is but I think we can say he knows enough to not fall into this trap. When he takes what the defense gives him, the offense will at least be put into positions where they have a good chance to be successful.

I think this is most likely correct. Hunt often had his TE check down available and never threw it. Very curious.
Lester doesn't seem to make the bubble a check down. When he runs it it seems that it is a designed play as when he runs it from the bunch.

BTW the replay reveals you were correct that Wake did not blitz very often and when they did it was usually the same LB.

 

[Crusty]

This is the thing about Bubble Screens. Yes, they're a pass, but, it's looked at by an offensive coach as a running play with a long handoff. More risk involved indeed. They're just trying to get their guys on the edge with a numbers advantage.

True enough, but I think Lester has decided to use other plays to get his guys in space. He seems to like variations from that motion play. I really liked how he ran a motion swing pass to McFarlane that went for ten yards and then from the same formation with the same motion threw the wheel route to Gulley that went for 23.

I am starting to like Lester.

 

[Millhouse]

This is the thing about Bubble Screens. Yes, they're a pass, but, it's looked at by an offensive coach as a running play with a long handoff. More risk involved indeed. They're just trying to get their guys on the edge with a numbers advantage.

not all offensive coaches look at it that way. maybe that's noel mazzone's dumb wrinkle to differentiate himself.

a bubble screen is a pass that forces defenders to stay home away from where you want to run it.

mcf***it calling it an extension of the running game is like calling play action an extension of the running game.

 

[Tom Frey]

I think we should stick with Long at QB, but I have to think other coaches are gonna use this against us on the recruiting trail. Coaches are gonna throw that at every recruits face about how Hunt lost his job due to injury. I think HCSS gives him at least a shot just because of this.

 

[Finwad32]

not all offensive coaches look at it that way. maybe that's noel mazzone's dumb wrinkle to differentiate himself.

a bubble screen is a pass that forces defenders to stay home away from where you want to run it.

mcf***it calling it an extension of the running game is like calling play action an extension of the running game.

I'm not disagreeing in what it's used for, to try to get a numbers advantage on the edge. Ideally away from flow with a play fake.

But I've heard more than just this staff call it that, obviously all coaches will have different descriptions and terminology. It really doesn't matter what it's called. by definition if it travels forward it's a pass.

I think the key point to take away from this, is that the bubble when executed correctly is effective.

1) An accurate pass that leads the WR to their designation.
2) A WR that catches it correctly and gets North, or makes the first defender miss.
3) Your blockers on the edge stalking properly.
4) Offensive line sliding properly and hopefully sealing off defenders flowing.

I do like having a WR in motion, ala McFarlane so that they have a full head of steam when catching the ball.

If the pass is behind or inaccurate, the play becomes significantly less effective.

I'm sure you know all of this, I'm just saying potatoe/potato.

 

[Cuseregular]

All of this may be true, and I agree there should be cautious optimism with regard to AJ, but I don't care what Lester or McDonald called, Hunt throws a bad ball. He's currently injured. We have 1 year left with him fully healthy.

I would rather slowly re-grow the playbook for this year, before putting Lester's offense in for next year, and keep AJ as the starter for the long haul. We are never going back to the full playbook that McDonald had. It's going to be a modified version that grows bit by bit and will change based on our bowl outlook as well.

I don't care how vanilla the offense or vanilla the defense he was facing, competing with FSU matters. Beating Wake Forest matters. Throwing TD passes matter. Hunt had 1 throwing TD and 4 interceptions this year, and he got to face Villanova and CMU.

We aren't ready to compete for a conference title right now. We aren't close to being a top 25 team right now. We need to focus on two years from now to get where we want to be. Maybe AJ isn't the guy and everyone is excited for a flash in the pan, but Hunt is not the guy to bring us where we need to go.

Just my 0.02. But AJ sure passes the look test and I want to invest in someone that has years ahead of him here (and maybe that is another guy on the roster or to-be-recruited kid), but I don't see Hunt getting us there in his time left.

It sounds harsh because Hunt is easy to root for. He helped get us a to a bowl game last year. He has a great story. And I'll root for him if he gets put back under center. But all of your concerns, while real, are ok for a true frosh to deal with. But issues at the QB position for a guy that's been here four years is not ok in my book if there is someone that can do it just as good or better that is younger.

This^^^^^^^^^^^^^. A hundred likes for your bottom line simple reality post.

 

[SUFaninNJ]

I think we should stick with Long at QB, but I have to think other coaches are gonna use this against us on the recruiting trail. Coaches are gonna throw that at every recruits face about how Hunt lost his job due to injury. I think HCSS gives him at least a shot just because of this.

Or they could view it as look at this true frosh who took advantage of an opportunity when it presented itself.

 

[Millhouse]

I'm not disagreeing in what it's used for, to try to get a numbers advantage on the edge. Ideally away from flow with a play fake.

But I've heard more than just this staff call it that, obviously all coaches will have different descriptions and terminology. It really doesn't matter what it's called. by definition if it travels forward it's a pass.

I think the key point to take away from this, is that the bubble when executed correctly is effective.

1) An accurate pass that leads the WR to their designation.
2) A WR that catches it correctly and gets North, or makes the first defender miss.
3) Your blockers on the edge stalking properly.
4) Offensive line sliding properly and hopefully sealing off defenders flowing.

I do like having a WR in motion, ala McFarlane so that they have a full head of steam when catching the ball.

If the pass is behind or inaccurate, the play becomes significantly less effective.

I'm sure you know all of this, I'm just saying potatoe/potato.

if you're depending on guys to make people miss, run the ball

good bubble screens happen when you don't have to make anyone miss. that guy is cheating run

making someone miss can turn easy 5 yards into something more but it's not something you need.

 

[Finwad32]

if you're depending on guys to make people miss, run the ball

good bubble screens happen when you don't have to make anyone miss. that guy is cheating run

making someone miss can turn easy 5 yards into something more but it's not something you need.

Not depending on it, shouldn't have to, that's why it's an or in case the blocking breaks down.

 

[Crusty]

I'm not disagreeing in what it's used for, to try to get a numbers advantage on the edge. Ideally away from flow with a play fake.

But I've heard more than just this staff call it that, obviously all coaches will have different descriptions and terminology. It really doesn't matter what it's called. by definition if it travels forward it's a pass.

I think the key point to take away from this, is that the bubble when executed correctly is effective.

1) An accurate pass that leads the WR to their designation.
2) A WR that catches it correctly and gets North, or makes the first defender miss.
3) Your blockers on the edge stalking properly.
4) Offensive line sliding properly and hopefully sealing off defenders flowing.

I do like having a WR in motion, ala McFarlane so that they have a full head of steam when catching the ball.

If the pass is behind or inaccurate, the play becomes significantly less effective.

I'm sure you know all of this, I'm just saying potatoe/potato.

Anyone who watched the ND game needs no convincing that well executed screen passes can be good plays. Sometimes devastatingly so.

I do like the screen passes to Phillips as he is a speedy dude and if the pass is on the money he will be hard to stop for less than 4 or 5 yards.

 

[Chip]

Anyone who watched the ND game needs no convincing that well executed screen passes can be good plays. Sometimes devastatingly so.

I do like the screen passes to Phillips as he is a speedy dude and if the pass is on the money he will be hard to stop for less than 4 or 5 yards.

It was challenging being a team who so consistently (and unproductively) ran bubble screens, while we run a defense that basically allows the opposing offense to run them so effectively.

No wonder we kept running them, they were probably awesome in practice.

 

[OttoMets]

Certainly during the pre-season nobody figured that the key to success this year would be AJ Long.

A.J. Long did.

 

[Orangeman83]

To me it looks like HCSS is pretty much parting ways with him, last weeks press conference sounded like they were getting him ready to graduate and move on. Maybe I'm off, but I think they know AJ is better than Hunt.