The Landscape has Changed, an Uphill Battle...

[Orijinal]

Ish. On one side of this argument I completely hear you. I don't think a lack of recruits at this point in the year is due to the coaching staff "slow playing it." I think it has everything to do with back to back 4-8 seasons.

On the other side of it, I am still not worried...or maybe as panicked as you are right now. As Unknown mentioned, we have 2 legit 4 stars coming in to play for us next year, and some really good potentials that have Cuse in their top 7 that will be making announcements next month.

I would also add that Cuse has not been recruiting bottom of the barrel in the ACC. They have actually been recruiting middle of the pack (8 of 14 schools). That's good news and something to build on ... far from something that should make us feel we can't compete with P5 schools, let alone G5

 

[Orijinal]

Syracuse will always be behind the 8 ball when it comes to recruiting for a number of reasons that have been discussed at length and those waiting for top 25 recruiting classes I will go as far to say that you will never see them here.

Recruit for your system, find raw potential and develop with coaching and solid S&C program, and when we have teams with solid seniors and 4th year junior types we will see success. It's the only way that Syracuse will be successful. Again, recruiting will never be what some hope for and it doesn't matter who the coach is. Have to wait and see what this class looks like but I expect it to look much the same as the last 2, which for me is just fine. Again, there are no miracles here nor will there ever be. Just need solid numbers from top to bottom and more depth. It's not and easy job top be the head coach at Syracuse

Not sure I agree here. History says much differently. Syracuse is definitely capable of landing top 25 recruiting classes. See coach Mac and Coach P eras.
Syracuse could easily break top 40 now ...if they just had a couple more wins last year ...and heck, who knows how close they could get this year even without it. Probably definitely top 50

 

[chugg21]

Keep ur chin up. We havnt done thus well in recruiting in 20 plus years. The last two classes have been very strong and this year is looking exceptional. Not sure who or what site you follow but we are doing well.

In what sense is the recruiting for the '19 class looking exceptional? That's absurd.

 

[RF2044]

While this Probably belongs on the recruiting board, I feel more of us will see it here. The last week or so has really opened my eyes to just how many recruiting battles we are losing and have lost. I get it, every program has multiple disappointments in recruiting every year. That said seeing UB place 2-3 kids in the top 100 pro prospects, constantly losing battles to G5 teams, and currently having 1 commit for 2019; has gotten my attention. Looking at sports and tracking who we have offered, i see 90% "cool" and about 10% "warm" when it comes to interest levels.

Recruiting has always been tough, but never tougher for a P5 school like us. We have zero advantages over a G5 and one might argue that it makes more sense attending a G5. Early playing time, coaching on par, playing vs. Comparable talent, and as much, if not more TV games. That's tough to beat.

The dome isn't what it used to be, our locker rooms have a band aid until the big reno happens, the IPF is average at best, still lacks the finishing touches, and the silver seated bubble in the sky , as much as i love it and have defended it, needs that face lift for these reasons alone.

Love Dino and his staff, but all the charm in the world as well as football acumen and having an atttactive system to play in; isnt going to get it done without the help of a bright, new, natural light and hip dome. Add in local food and beverage and electronics and AC. Recruiting for the .500 or worse P5 is tougher than ever.

Interesting topic to discuss. Here are my thoughts:

Syracuse has always generally had an uphill battle with respect to recruiting. When we've transcended that issue, it was due to having a "unique" system, and targeting profiles that fit the system. We lacked the depth on the roster that other teams had, but there was a time during the end of the Coach Mac / the first 2/3 of the Coach P era where our skilled talent was on par even with elite teams. Although we rarely put it together [and seemed to always have an extra loss or two that you wouldn't expect], we had some pretty good teams that played a pretty exciting brand of ball, and the recruiting followed suit.

Our program has generally been down since the early 2000s. With the exception of a small handful of seasons, we're approaching near two decades of futility. Having poor results and sustained poor performance has made it even more challenging to recruit. But here are three things that are important to keep in mind:

1. No matter how much success we have, we're never going to consistently be able to go toe-to-toe with top P5 programs on the recruiting trail. Guys here and there? Sure. But anyone benchmarking that as our equilibrium point of whether recruiting is going well is bound to be perpetually disappointed.
2. It is far more important for a program like ours to establish an identity, and then recruit to that profile [think: Boise State]. Having a solid system in place -- and the right personnel -- is going to be what catapults us back into the top 25, not trying to compete with the likes of PSU for blue chip talent.
3. Despite what I state in point #2 above, given Babers's exciting style of offensive play it isn't difficult to envision us landing blue chip caliber skilled talent soon -- we're actually starting to see that manifest, even before we're seeing the results on the field.

I don't think things are quite as bleak as you seem to. And I wouldn't put too much stock into what Rvls and Skowt databases say, or gauge how well recruiting is going based upon those websites.

Trust the process -- we have a head coach who knows what he is doing, has a proven track record of success, and has the chops / charisma to be a dynamic recruiter.

Not to mention, a bowl game is what I expect this year. Just imagine what will happen when our HC and this staff have some success to pitch on the recruiting trail...

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Not sure I agree here. History says much differently. Syracuse is definitely capable of landing top 25 recruiting classes. See coach Mac and Coach P eras.
Syracuse could easily break top 40 now ...if they just had a couple more wins last year ...and heck, who knows how close they could get this year even without it. Probably definitely top 50

ARMY probably use to have top 25 recruiting classes as well. Dome and scheme were much newer then. Less competition as well. Times have changed, I just don't see it. Winning a few more games would help

 

[Orijinal]

After we go 7-5 this year, we'll stock up on recruits in December

 

[longislandcuse]

Outside of Michigan/OSU/PSU, the Mid-West and Northeast has been strugglesville in Football due to the shift to the Southeast. If you take the Mid-West out of the equation, then...yikes.

I do think we can be a Michigan State type team. Typically being a conference darkhorse, Top 25 caliber team year-in/year-out. Unfortunately, any Championship hopes will rely on a Heisman type QB that Dino can bring in because it may be too difficult to build a “program” like they can in the states of Alabama, Georgia, South Carolina and Florida.

 

[elimunelson]

I follow recruiting very very very minimally but one thing I notice is Dino has abandoned New England it seems? I feel like Pasqualoni was at his best when he was picking and choosing kids from New England who wanted to be within a 5 hour drive. There are battles to win vs BC in the prep school world and i feel like we're not playing in that sand box at all. Don Brown at Michigan has made inroads with his UMass background. I know Addazio is as well since he's from the Pasqualoni family tree.

Not pointing fingers at Dino b/c he has the recruiting point up but would love to see someone on the staff with the contacts there to start the dialog again.

 

[UnknownOrange]

I follow recruiting very very very minimally but one thing I notice is Dino has abandoned New England it seems? I feel like Pasqualoni was at his best when he was picking and choosing kids from New England who wanted to be within a 5 hour drive. There are battles to win vs BC in the prep school world and i feel like we're not playing in that sand box at all. Don Brown at Michigan has made inroads with his UMass background. I know Addazio is as well since he's from the Pasqualoni family tree.

Not pointing fingers at Dino b/c he has the recruiting point up but would love to see someone on the staff with the contacts there to start the dialog again.

2018: 4 recruits from NY/NJ, 2 from DC, 1 from PA, 1 from NH

2017: 4 recruits from NY/NJ, A few others from the Northeast.

He wants the best players to fit his system - if they're here in the NE - he'll target them

 

[Orijinal]

2018: 4 recruits from NY/NJ, 2 from DC, 1 from PA, 1 from NH

2017: 4 recruits from NY/NJ, A few others from the Northeast.

He wants the best players to fit his system - if they're here in the NE - he'll target them

The spiral graph

 

[orangecuse]

If there were ever a 76ers version of "Trust the Process" in college football, it's Babers at Syracuse.

Yeah we have an uphill battle. Not new news. And we're in far more recruiting wars now than we had been post McNabb.

So we will lose a large majority of them, but we're also winning kids - and getting transfers of legit talent from Oklahoma and Michigan State - that we weren't even sniffing before.

The Dome is still different. But it won't be getting as hip and shiny as the Xboxes at the University of Oregon. Not sure what new insight you got into recruiting, but nothing has changed in the past year or two to affect Syracuse's odds of building a winning culture or not.

"Trust the Process." Yeah, I'm on board with Dino and I am holding out hope as most of us here are. That's all we can do for now, isn't it? Look for some type of light at the end of the tunnel (i.e. VT win last year, Clemson this year, etc.). We have generally been irrelevant for two decades, so most of these recruits see us kind of in the same light, that's just reality, until our "normal" changes to above .500 and going to bowl games, etc. This is a huge year for Dino and Syracuse, somehow we need to get to a bowl game. Dino has a very difficult job for sure in turning this program around, I don't even want to think about the ramifications if he fails to get us to where we all are holding out hope for.

Make no mistake, however, comparing Syracuse to the 76er's version of "Trusting the Process" is not a good analogy in my opinion. The 76er's purposely tanking games enabled them to benefit the system in getting top draft choices. Syracuse has no luxury in failing to win...actually, even if we eventually win, it's still going to be an uphill battle to win consistently in this ACC division.

 

[chugg21]

"Trust the Process." Yeah, I'm on board with Dino and I am holding out hope as most of us here are. That's all we can do for now, isn't it? Look for some type of light at the end of the tunnel (i.e. VT win last year, Clemson this year, etc.). We have generally been irrelevant for two decades, so most of these recruits see us kind of in the same light, that's just reality, until our "normal" changes to above .500 and going to bowl games, etc. This is a huge year for Dino and Syracuse, somehow we need to get to a bowl game. Dino has a very difficult job for sure in turning this program around, I don't even want to think about the ramifications if he fails to get us to where we all are holding out hope for.

Make no mistake, however, comparing Syracuse to the 76er's version of "Trusting the Process" is not a good analogy in my opinion. The 76er's purposely tanking games enabled them to benefit the system in getting top draft choices. Syracuse has no luxury in failing to win...actually, even if we eventually win, it's still going to be an uphill battle to win consistently in this ACC division.

Drives me insane that people use that phrase for all kinds of things now. Bills fans say it constantly and it drives me completely bonkers.

 

[MaxwellCuse]

"Trust the Process" is the new "Wait 'Til Next Year!"

 

[elimunelson]

2018: 4 recruits from NY/NJ, 2 from DC, 1 from PA, 1 from NH

2017: 4 recruits from NY/NJ, A few others from the Northeast.

He wants the best players to fit his system - if they're here in the NE - he'll target them

that's totally fine and i trust him over my blanket statements on recruiting just my two cents on an area we used to do well in

 

[RF2044]

"Trust the Process" is the new "Wait 'Til Next Year!"

No it isn't -- it is having the perspective to step back and look objectively at what our coaches are implementing, what they are accomplishing on the recruiting trail, and how they have already begun to bolster many positional units with better talent.

Our shortcomings these past two years have generally been tied to Dungey's health. When he went down and missed 1/3 or more of the remaining season, we've had to turn to a walk on to replace him. Nothing against Mahoney -- who really outperformed any realistic expectation for what you'd expect from a walk on -- but if Dungey goes down again this year, we'll have a completely different caliber of player to turn to in DeVito. We had no third string really behind Mahoney these past two years; this year, we'd have a guy like Rex Culpepper who started a game last year.

We still have a way to go, and it is past time to get to a bowl -- no argument there. But the incremental progress is evident, our ability to compete with some of the tougher teams on our schedule has tangibly improved [as evidenced by our showing in road games @ LSU, Florida State, and Miami last season] and will show in the W/L column this year, IMO.

 

[UnknownOrange]

that's totally fine and i trust him over my blanket statements on recruiting just my two cents on an area we used to do well in

No i understand your concern I just think the NE has changed a bit as far as producing talent. While there is still some good high end talent - we haven't performed well enough to keep Ohio State and Penn State at bay

 

[DoctorBombay]

Interesting topic to discuss. Here are my thoughts:

Syracuse has always generally had an uphill battle with respect to recruiting. When we've transcended that issue, it was due to having a "unique" system, and targeting profiles that fit the system. We lacked the depth on the roster that other teams had, but there was a time during the end of the Coach Mac / the first 2/3 of the Coach P era where our skilled talent was on par even with elite teams. Although we rarely put it together [and seemed to always have an extra loss or two that you wouldn't expect], we had some pretty good teams that played a pretty exciting brand of ball, and the recruiting followed suit.

Our program has generally been down since the early 2000s. With the exception of a small handful of seasons, we're approaching near two decades of futility. Having poor results and sustained poor performance has made it even more challenging to recruit. But here are three things that are important to keep in mind:

1. No matter how much success we have, we're never going to consistently be able to go toe-to-toe with top P5 programs on the recruiting trail. Guys here and there? Sure. But anyone benchmarking that as our equilibrium point of whether recruiting is going well is bound to be perpetually disappointed.
2. It is far more important for a program like ours to establish an identity, and then recruit to that profile [think: Boise State]. Having a solid system in place -- and the right personnel -- is going to be what catapults us back into the top 25, not trying to compete with the likes of PSU for blue chip talent.
3. Despite what I state in point #2 above, given Babers's exciting style of offensive play it isn't difficult to envision us landing blue chip caliber skilled talent soon -- we're actually starting to see that manifest, even before we're seeing the results on the field.

I don't think things are quite as bleak as you seem to. And I wouldn't put too much stock into what Rvls and Skowt databases say, or gauge how well recruiting is going based upon those websites.

Trust the process -- we have a head coach who knows what he is doing, has a proven track record of success, and has the chops / charisma to be a dynamic recruiter.

Not to mention, a bowl game is what I expect this year. Just imagine what will happen when our HC and this staff have some success to pitch on the recruiting trail...

This x1000. Good post.

 

[RMH44]

Yeah.. We shoulda bagged some recruits this past camp.. The sky is not falling. Last year, maybe recruits didn't care about the 4-8 season. Maybe they do, this year. Don't think they don't know we beat Clemson. Coach Lewis and Lynch were terrors on the recruiting trail. That needs to be restored. Dome is getting the lift. The locker room's are better than I thought. Take the tour, for yourself.

Forgive me Ish... We have every advantage over G5 schools. For starters, the scholarship is guaranteed. Every recruit knows it. Only 65 schools. They might get a national game, and compete in one of the top divisions of all college football. That counts. Come off the cliff... You think a recruit wants to go against schlub #238(G5), or a kid that's getting his name called in the draft?

Kids got it in the 80's and 90's... 2002 to 2012 big east was turds... That's over. Dome is getting a lift. I'm concerned with slower recruiting this year, too.. Not concerned about the long term in the slightest...

Agree with everything except your Coach Lynch comment...he is still on staff as the lone OC.

 

[RandomGuy]

Agree with everything except your Coach Lynch comment...he is still on staff as the lone OC.

I haven't seen pics of him on the recruiting trail... Maybe I'm missing them.

 

[CuseLegacy]

I haven't seen pics of him on the recruiting trail... Maybe I'm missing them.

The evaluation period ended on 5/31 and unless a HS coach posted a pic or tweeted about a specific coach visiting you wouldn't see anything.

 

[Ish88888]

Yeah.. We shoulda bagged some recruits this past camp.. The sky is not falling. Last year, maybe recruits didn't care about the 4-8 season. Maybe they do, this year. Don't think they don't know we beat Clemson. Coach Lewis and Lynch were terrors on the recruiting trail. That needs to be restored. Dome is getting the lift. The locker room's are better than I thought. Take the tour, for yourself.

Forgive me Ish... We have every advantage over G5 schools. For starters, the scholarship is guaranteed. Every recruit knows it. Only 65 schools. They might get a national game, and compete in one of the top divisions of all college football. That counts. Come off the cliff... You think a recruit wants to go against schlub #238(G5), or a kid that's getting his name called in the draft?

Kids got it in the 80's and 90's... 2002 to 2012 big east was turds... That's over. Dome is getting a lift. I'm concerned with slower recruiting this year, too.. Not concerned about the long term in the slightest...

Great post RG. Thing is, we are in many battles with G5 teams at the moment. I get that the P5 experience is the ultimate , but i see these advantages of current G5:

* every game is on TV these days, so there isn't a selling point anymore for the P5 teams . One could argue that the MAC gets more isolated, national games during the week and thus more exposure.
*where a kid puts up his stats doesn't matter. If you have the measurables, scouts will find you, so why bash your head as a DE against stud LTs in conference when all that matters in the end is your measurables and stats. This was very apparent in this past year's draft.

 

[Ish88888]

Interesting topic to discuss. Here are my thoughts:

Syracuse has always generally had an uphill battle with respect to recruiting. When we've transcended that issue, it was due to having a "unique" system, and targeting profiles that fit the system. We lacked the depth on the roster that other teams had, but there was a time during the end of the Coach Mac / the first 2/3 of the Coach P era where our skilled talent was on par even with elite teams. Although we rarely put it together [and seemed to always have an extra loss or two that you wouldn't expect], we had some pretty good teams that played a pretty exciting brand of ball, and the recruiting followed suit.

Our program has generally been down since the early 2000s. With the exception of a small handful of seasons, we're approaching near two decades of futility. Having poor results and sustained poor performance has made it even more challenging to recruit. But here are three things that are important to keep in mind:

1. No matter how much success we have, we're never going to consistently be able to go toe-to-toe with top P5 programs on the recruiting trail. Guys here and there? Sure. But anyone benchmarking that as our equilibrium point of whether recruiting is going well is bound to be perpetually disappointed.
2. It is far more important for a program like ours to establish an identity, and then recruit to that profile [think: Boise State]. Having a solid system in place -- and the right personnel -- is going to be what catapults us back into the top 25, not trying to compete with the likes of PSU for blue chip talent.
3. Despite what I state in point #2 above, given Babers's exciting style of offensive play it isn't difficult to envision us landing blue chip caliber skilled talent soon -- we're actually starting to see that manifest, even before we're seeing the results on the field.

I don't think things are quite as bleak as you seem to. And I wouldn't put too much stock into what Rvls and Skowt databases say, or gauge how well recruiting is going based upon those websites.

Trust the process -- we have a head coach who knows what he is doing, has a proven track record of success, and has the chops / charisma to be a dynamic recruiter.

Not to mention, a bowl game is what I expect this year. Just imagine what will happen when our HC and this staff have some success to pitch on the recruiting trail...

Thanks for the response and I agree with alot of what you had to say. I am not begging for blue chippers. I like targeting the 3* kid hungry to work and succeed. Rosters are made up mostly of 3* players. Thing is, we are losing way too many battles to G5 schools. Losing Lewis is hurting, he was electric.

 

[MaxwellCuse]

No it isn't -- it is having the perspective to step back and look objectively at what our coaches are implementing, what they are accomplishing on the recruiting trail, and how they have already begun to bolster many positional units with better talent.

I don't disagree with anything you have said. But I think you misunderstood me. The Dodgers eventually had 1955. I believe that Dino will lead our guys to a series of bowl games before too much time passes. But time will pass. Patience will be required. That first, elusive bowl game might still be a couple years away. But the Boys of Autumn will not be stuck in mediocrity forever under this coach. Wait 'Til Next Year!

 

[CuseLegacy]

Great post RG. Thing is, we are in many battles with G5 teams at the moment. I get that the P5 experience is the ultimate , but i see these advantages of current G5:

* every game is on TV these days, so there isn't a selling point anymore for the P5 teams . One could argue that the MAC gets more isolated, national games during the week and thus more exposure.
*where a kid puts up his stats doesn't matter. If you have the measurables, scouts will find you, so why bash your head as a DE against stud LTs in conference when all that matters in the end is your measurables and stats. This was very apparent in this past year's draft.

Just because a kid has an offer doesn't mean he has a commitable offer or is a priority recruit. The staff has offered well over 300 prospects just in the 2019 class. It does not mean that SU is in a recruiting battle with G5 schools just because some of those over 300 prospects commits to a G5 school.

 

[RandomGuy]

The currently class is a bit behind, but maybe that's what back to back 4-8 will get you. Thats where we're at, at the moment, but it's far from over. I don't think the landscape has changed. The cycle? We'll see.

Sure, some kids will choose g5, but the best 2 conferences in football are still the SEC, and ACC. I think that counts for many recruits. Yeah, we don't want to be losing a majority of battles to g5's. Respectable year? New dome? No problem.

Easy for recruits to find where most NFL players cone from..

2018 NFL Draft: College Football Conference Rankings. Who Won The Draft?