Tony White

[wfschrec]

People here need to listen…

To what? The same guy that lambasted the team a couple weeks ago and then goes on X and tells everyone we are going to beat BC? He isn't even batting .500 here ... need to go outside this dysfunctional family.

 

[kcsu]

People have been suggesting we drop out of p5 for the last 45 years. I graduated from Syracuse in 1978 and that was the talk then. Right before we built the Dome. I am so sick of the poor mouthing that Syracuse does. I will be honest with you. I don't believe it. I think we lie like two dollar whores. Are we at the top of the table. No. But we aren't the poor people with cups in our hands at the local super market. And spare me the talk about NIL. That is rather new. It doesn't explain the years before that. Do we have limatations? Of course. We have no recruiting hot base. We are expensive so we don't get walk on's like less expensive schools. The weather does hurt us. But we haven't been smart about our football program. And I will take the numbers you cited at the end of your post and not complain. But not being destroyed on national tv 3 weeks in a row. The right guy, a hustler, can make us competitive. And that is all I am asking for.

Great post

 

[orangenauburn]

He’s got a great 4* commit.

After what-is/will-be going down, both he & the 4* Orondé replacement will likely jump ship.

Beck won't be here next year

 

[Toga]

How many P5 head coaches with mediocre 5+ year records go on to be succesful later on (guess probably less than 10%)

How many successful P5 assistant coaches with no records go on to be successful at P5 head coaching (guess probably 30-40%)

How many sucessful lower level head coaches with good records go on to be successful at P5 head coaching (unsure, feels the same as successful P5 assistant coaches though)

How many sucessful P5 head coaches go on to other P5 head coaching gigs and have success (trick question, we will never write a check for this coach)

 

[Cusefan69]

Exactly. And would it shock anyone if his defense continues playing at this level and his salary increases to $2M+? Just saying, they will do whatever it takes and we won’t. That’s the point where I see JW going the cheap route and going for someone like the Holy Cross coach that people are interested in.

Out of curiosity, what has ADJW done to make you think he only wants cheap and won't spend as needed?

 

[JimBoston]

Unless you are at the very very top of the P5, you will not be able to hire a successful OC and keep him because they are worth their weight in gold. I think you hire an offensive minded head coach and if he is successful, you figure out a way to pay him. DCs are much easier to find.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

The main thing I'm going to be watching for is whether or not SU is willing to spend the money to try to play big boy football. It should be fairly obvious between who they hire and what type of staff they fund putting together.

My main issue with hiring a defensive coach is that you'll likely have a rotating door at offensive coordinator, and likewise with the staff. Either they suck and you have to keep replacing them, or they have success and they're being hired away. Unless maybe they can find someone who's old, who is a good OC but failed as a head coach - then you have to pay them, though.

So it kind of circles back to, what are we doing here? Are we cashing checks to be the bottom feeder in the ACC and waiting on death row for the next round or two of realignment to off us, or are we spending and trying to compete?

What if the big money targets say no? Or we can't rely on them to recruit other regions hard enough to bring the talent we need?

I don't think people realize how bad shape we'll be in when the handoff is made in a couple weeks.

 

[wfschrec]

The main thing I'm going to be watching for is whether or not SU is willing to spend the money to try to play big boy football. It should be fairly obvious between who they hire and what type of staff they fund putting together.

My main issue with hiring a defensive coach is that you'll likely have a rotating door at offensive coordinator, and likewise with the staff. Either they suck and you have to keep replacing them, or they have success and they're being hired away. Unless maybe they can find someone who's old, who is a good OC but failed as a head coach - then you have to pay them, though.

So it kind of circles back to, what are we doing here? Are we cashing checks to be the bottom feeder in the ACC and waiting on death row for the next round or two of realignment to off us, or are we spending and trying to compete?

Well the flip side to that is that Dino is an offensive coach and has been rotating OCs like underwear for different reasons. So would it matter at that point?

 

[EnviroSciGuy]

This^^^^

Recruit, don’t be an idiot with the clock/timeouts/FGs/Punts, and bring in a good offensive coordinator.

Is that so impossible to find?

It's not even impossible to find in the OHSL.

 

[pokercuse08]

What if the big money targets say no?

Find out why, spend the money to fix the why, and then hire one. They want to win and be paid what they're worth. If Syracuse is willing to spend, it can get them. If not, it can't. I'm guessing we aren't willing to spend and that the program is basically doomed to continue as-is with a new name that gives some false hope.

Well the flip side to that is that Dino is an offensive coach and has been rotating OCs like underwear for different reasons. So would it matter at that point?

Well he's supposed to be the offensive mastermind and you can keep the head coach in place, within reason, if you're willing to spend the money necessary once you find the right guy.

 

[wfschrec]

Find out why, spend the money to fix the why, and then hire one. They want to win and be paid what they're worth. If Syracuse is willing to spend, it can get them. If not, it can't. I'm guessing we aren't willing to spend and that the program is basically doomed to continue as-is with a new name that gives some false hope.



Well he's supposed to be the offensive mastermind and you can keep the head coach in place, within reason, if you're willing to spend the money necessary once you find the right guy.

That’s been my point we brought in a system guy and it isn’t working and you can’t retain assistances long enough. Yes Dino is the common thread but who is to say that a defensive coach would have the same attrition especially if he lets the OC run it his way? I’d see him be more inclined to stay longer if not interfered with.

 

[pokercuse08]

That’s been my point we brought in a system guy and it isn’t working and you can’t retain assistances long enough. Yes Dino is the common thread but who is to say that a defensive coach would have the same attrition especially if he lets the OC run it his way? I’d see him be more inclined to stay longer if not interfered with.

A defensive coach would have a ton of attrition in the offensive coaching staff, either because they had success or needed to be replaced. So I think we're agreeing, unless I misunderstood your point?

 

[EnviroSciGuy]

Unless you are at the very very top of the P5, you will not be able to hire a successful OC and keep him because they are worth their weight in gold. I think you hire an offensive minded head coach and if he is successful, you figure out a way to pay him. DCs are much easier to find.

We don't need to "keep" a successful coach for the program itself to be successful. There's nothing wrong with being a Cinci-type program that just keeps pluggin in up and coming talent. That would be an exceptionally good problem to have at this point.

 

[rocklloyd]

Where is Rob Spence?

 

[CousCuse]

Many here say that Syracuse is a difficult place to be successful as a head coach. Then what sense does it make to hire a first time head coach, not much, if any. It will save money though.

 

[wfschrec]

A defensive coach would have a ton of attrition in the offensive coaching staff, either because they had success or needed to be replaced. So I think we're agreeing, unless I misunderstood your point?

You run the risk no matter which side of the ball the head man coaches. Saban has gone through it just like Dino. I’d rather it be due to success like Lewis vs ineptitude like Gilbert.

 

[orangenauburn]

Where is Rob Spence?

Counting bubbles

 

[pokercuse08]

You run the risk no matter which side of the ball the head man coaches. Saban has gone through it just like Dino. I’d rather it be due to success like Lewis vs ineptitude like Gilbert.

Whichever side of the ball your head coach is on will have more continuity, because they're the de facto coordinator on that side. If we hire Tony White and he controls the scheme and calls the plays on defense, it doesn't matter as much when we lose DCs - we still have the guy running the show on that side. If we hire an offensive guy, the same concept applies.

The difference is, most schools are looking to hire offensive guys, so if we have the continuity on offense and the defense is turning over, it'll turn over less often than the offense will if the roles are reversed.

 

[wfschrec]

Whichever side of the ball your head coach is on will have more continuity, because they're the de facto coordinator on that side. If we hire Tony White and he controls the scheme and calls the plays on defense, it doesn't matter as much when we lose DCs - we still have the guy running the show on that side. If we hire an offensive guy, the same concept applies.

The difference is, most schools are looking to hire offensive guys, so if we have the continuity on offense and the defense is turning over, it'll turn over less often than the offense will if the roles are reversed.

Then why have we had poor continuity on O and better continuity on D if you look at the transition from White to Long? It's all relative.

 

[OrangeFoo]

I think you are all too caught up on defensive coach vs offense coach. Top 5 priorities for next coach: 1. Recruit better players 2. Recruit better players 3. Recruit better players 4. Recruit better players 5. Recruit better players

Shafer wasn’t a terrible coach because of his offensive strategy… he was a terrible coach because he couldn’t recruit ACC starter level players for the most part.

When Shafer was first head coach he did try to improve the offense by hiring that OC from Clemson and then he gave McEffIt the job. He just picked terrible coaches which speaks more to his judge of talent and character more than anything related to strategy.

If the next coach is White he needs to be armed with bags on top of bags

 

[MadNY3]

It would be a big gamble.

Unless Red really hits a home run, a poor FB HC hire will likely lead to a JW exit as well.

He’s in the retirement zone, though he has not needed to work for sone time given the $$$ from being an early ESPN employee.

He bleeds SU. Doesn’t itself equate to success, but taking a step back, he was a counterintuitive hire…and now look at all the media people in power, from the Bog 12 Commissioner, ND’s new AD and more.

Babers wasn’t his hire. He had to lock him in after an historic 2018. Can’t wait to see what he does…but if he doesn’t, he failed to manage up with any ability.

 

[GHLF]

What if the big money targets say no? Or we can't rely on them to recruit other regions hard enough to bring the talent we need?

I don't think people realize how bad shape we'll be in when the handoff is made in a couple weeks.

Dino stay or Dino go I beg to differ

 

[BillSU]

He’s in the retirement zone, though he has not needed to work for sone time given the $$$ from being an early ESPN employee.

He bleeds SU. Doesn’t itself equate to success, but taking a step back, he was a counterintuitive hire…and now look at all the media people in power, from the Bog 12 Commissioner, ND’s new AD and more.

Babers wasn’t his hire. He had to lock him in after an historic 2018. Can’t wait to see what he does…but if he doesn’t, he failed to manage up with any ability.

Sean Lewis, the recently demoted OC at Colorado is ripe for the picking and has a brilliant offensive mind. Hire and pay him and move on.

 

[Xanadu]

Sean Lewis makes the most sense.

 

[pokercuse08]

Then why have we had poor continuity on O and better continuity on D if you look at the transition from White to Long? It's all relative.

If we had hired a successful offensive head coach, we'd have had perfect offensive continuity with Dino Babers running the offense his entire tenure.