Transfers

[Consigliere]

Can we please have a moratorium on the "He was pushed out by coach" comments? These are private conversations between Coach and players and no one here knows what, if anything, is discussed. I've seen more than one "pushed out" players and families support the program and coaches after leaving.

NOTHING positive comes from comments like this.

 

[Alsacs]

If our coach is recruiting the players in the first place then that falls on the coach. I get this is a business but if a kid commits to the program and doesn't do anything off the court that embarrasses the program they shouldn't be forced out for not being good enough.

BJ Johnson was definitely not pushed out as he has shown potential and would have gradually gotten more time here, but based on what Dasher said in another thread to my inquiry Ron Patterson was basically told he wouldn't be getting playing time and was advised to leave. Jim Calhoun had a history of doing this at UConn. JB has had some cases of it with Mike Williams, Devin Brennan-McBride, but he hasn't done it as much. I think as long as nobody takes personal shots at the kids or coaches people should be able to talk about this. I get why we did what we did it doesn't mean it was right.

 

[twinight]

Ron Patterson was basically told he wouldn't be getting playing time and was advised to leave.

Is that "pushing someone out" or giving them good advice?

 

[Alsacs]

Is that "pushing someone out" or giving them good advice?

Semantics we made a commitment to Ron Patterson and he made one to Syracuse Basketball. We all know this was done because Patterson wasn't good enough and him being here meant we wouldn't likely get Battle in 2016. Again, I don't blame JB or SU for thinking long term it doesn't mean its fair to the kid.

Maybe a Syracuse degree means more to Patterson than another school's degree. Patterson didn't have to leave, but it doesn't mean he wasn't told his scholarship wouldn't be renewed.

 

[pfister1]

If our coach is recruiting the players in the first place then that falls on the coach. I get this is a business but if a kid commits to the program and doesn't do anything off the court that embarrasses the program they shouldn't be forced out for not being good enough.

BJ Johnson was definitely not pushed out as he has shown potential and would have gradually gotten more time here, but based on what Dasher said in another thread to my inquiry Ron Patterson was basically told he wouldn't be getting playing time and was advised to leave. Jim Calhoun had a history of doing this at UConn. JB has had some cases of it with Mike Williams, Devin Brennan-McBride, but he hasn't done it as much. I think as long as nobody takes personal shots at the kids or coaches people should be able to talk about this. I get why we did what we did it doesn't mean it was right.

Nothing wrong with being realistic with a kid, in fact its good for everyone. I don't consider that pushing someone out. JB has to recruit and plan with what's best for the program in mind. If kids haven't performed then he needs to recruit guys to play, not assume that the guys in the program will ultimately be good enough.

Now, if JB went to either guy and said I don't care if you want to come back and continue to compete for time, there is no scholarship for you here next year; that is being pushed out.

 

[Alsacs]

Nothing wrong with being realistic with a kid, in fact its good for everyone. I don't consider that pushing someone out. JB has to recruit and plan with what's best for the program in mind. If kids haven't performed then he needs to recruit guys to play, not assume that the guys in the program will ultimately be good enough.

Now, if JB went to either guy and said I don't care if you want to come back and continue to compete for time, there is no scholarship for you here next year; that is being pushed out.

I have no problem being realistic with a kid. I asked in the Ron Patterson thread if this was his decision and the answers implied it was not. That is what I am talking about. Being honest is important, but we shouldn't be getting rid of kids because they aren't good enough that is on the coaching staff. Now I know we are getting hammered by losing 3 schollys per year, but no kid who doesn't cause problems off the court should be forced out.

 

[Alsacs]

Nothing wrong with being realistic with a kid, in fact its good for everyone. I don't consider that pushing someone out. JB has to recruit and plan with what's best for the program in mind. If kids haven't performed then he needs to recruit guys to play, not assume that the guys in the program will ultimately be good enough.

Now, if JB went to either guy and said I don't care if you want to come back and continue to compete for time, there is no scholarship for you here next year; that is being pushed out.

I have no problem being realistic with a kid. I asked in the Ron Patterson thread if this was his decision and the answers implied it was not. That is what I am talking about. Being honest is important, but we shouldn't be getting rid of kids because they aren't good enough that is on the coaching staff. Now I know we are getting hammered by losing 3 schollys per year, but no kid who doesn't cause problems off the court should be forced out.

 

[tbonezone]

we can all agree to not talk about it . we can also agree to never ever again grumble when other programs do it. cuz we're no better.

 

[cuse2013]

I have no problem being realistic with a kid. I asked in the Ron Patterson thread if this was his decision and the answers implied it was not. That is what I am talking about.

A bunch of people making guesses about what they think happened doesn't mean it actually happen.

This was one of our worst rosters and records in years. BJ and Ron must have been the writing on the wall which was everyone coming back but Roc, two former 5 star recruits coming back from injury, and a 4 player recruiting class which is one of the best in the nation. If they didn't play this year, they never will.

 

[orange79]

I have no inside knowledge, but I assume they were not told their scholarship would not be renewed. Rather, they were told about a general lack of playing time in their future, and they might be best served moving on. At least, that's what I hope happened.

 

[Consigliere]

I asked in the Ron Patterson thread if this was his decision and the answers implied it was not.

Unless one of the answers came from Buss or JB the answer was nothing but conjecture. May have come from a "source close to the program" or second hand or third hand source but conjecture none the less and cannot be spun in a positive direction.

And ultimately the decision WAS Ron's. I can't accept that he was told his scholarship ws not being renewed. He may well have been told that with the incoming and returning talent he would struggle to find the floor but it's still his decision. Heck, he may have been told "I want you to leave and will help you find a more suitable school" but it's STILL his decision to take or ignore the offer and advice.

It worked out for Robbie Benson at Western U.

 

[SWC75]

There is all the difference in the world between talking honestly with a kid about his future and "forcing him out". I'm sure JB wanted that scholarship for Bryant but whether he would have forced a kid out if he had elected to stay is another question.


BJ Johnson had already decided to transfer before the NCAA decision was issued.

 

[Briancuse]

Is that "pushing someone out" or giving them good advice?

Exactly there is nothing wrong with the coaches being honest with them. With what we have coming back next year, and the incoming class, its going to be hard for BJ and Ron to get playing time next year, it is probably the best thing for both of them to transfer.

 

[twinight]

Semantics we made a commitment to Ron Patterson and he made one to Syracuse Basketball. We all know this was done because Patterson wasn't good enough and him being here meant we wouldn't likely get Battle in 2016. Again, I don't blame JB or SU for thinking long term it doesn't mean its fair to the kid.

Maybe a Syracuse degree means more to Patterson than another school's degree. Patterson didn't have to leave, but it doesn't mean he wasn't told his scholarship wouldn't be renewed.

We made an agreement for him to get a scholarship and be on the team. Not for him to start, not for him to get regular minutes if there were better players in his position. If Boeheim says, "Look, here's the situation, its unlikely you're going to get a lot of minutes. If your desire is to play in game-time, then you should look elsewhere." How is that a bad thing?

I mean, what's the alternative? Don't tell him what the situation will likely be and just have him sitting frustratedly on the bench? Or, even dumber, play him just for the sake of playing him, not because it's best for the team. Not sure what you're looking for in this situation.

 

[Alsacs]

There is all the difference in the world between talking honestly with a kid about his future and "forcing him out". I'm sure JB wanted that scholarship for Bryant but whether he would have forced a kid out if he had elected to stay is another question.


BJ Johnson had already decided to transfer before the NCAA decision was issued.

I agree completely. To your last point I agree as well we knew Johnson was likely gone and SU did not push him out. I asked in the Ron Patterson is transferring thread if it was his decision and multiple posters who have more knowledge stated it was not. If Patterson didn't want to transfer what are we suppose to conclude?

 

[Toga]

Wasn't one of the recent changes pushed (approved) from the P5 - 4 year non-annually renewable scholarships? Not sure when it becomes effective. Now that would make a difference if say a kid wanted his degree from the school and being advised of little playing time wasn't enough to make the kid want to transfer.

 

[Consigliere]

I agree completely. To your last point I agree as well we knew Johnson was likely gone and SU did not push him out. I asked in the Ron Patterson is transferring thread if it was his decision and multiple posters who have more knowledge stated it was not. If Patterson didn't want to transfer what are we suppose to conclude?

Again, unless one of those posters were JB or Ron it's all interpretation and conjecture. I respect the hell out of many of the posters here and know first hand that some have impeccable sources but I can't envision a scenario where a kid would be "pushed" out against his will. Beginning next year scholarships are guaranteed for four years. Reaction to this change was universally that in practice they already are since no school would pull a scholarship and risk reaction on the recruiting trail.

 

[anomander]

A bunch of people making guesses about what they think happened doesn't mean it actually happen.

This was one of our worst rosters and records in years. BJ and Ron must have been the writing on the wall which was everyone coming back but Roc, two former 5 star recruits coming back from injury, and a 4 player recruiting class which is one of the best in the nation. If they didn't play this year, they never will.

How do you know it's a bunch of people making guesses? Dasher's information on the Patterson situation was right on the money.

 

[orangefan13]

I think patterson was our best/2nd best on the ball defender with a team of dajuan/mccullough,gbinije who can score one on one against tough d you don't get rid of that. just my two cents. A good coach who wants to go far, values tough defensive pressure. Even more with our press.

 

[cuse2013]

How do you know it's a bunch of people making guesses? Dasher's information on the Patterson situation was right on the money.

What, that Ron was going to transfer? If you didn't think there was a very high chance of that yourself, then you just weren't being realistic.

 

[anomander]

What, that Ron was going to transfer? If you didn't think there was a very high chance of that yourself, then you just weren't being realistic.

Not that he was going to transfer, but that he was pretty much forced out.

 

[cuse2013]

Not that he was going to transfer, but that he was pretty much forced out.

Again, then that's nothing more than a guess. Did Patterson say that? No.

 

[anomander]

Again, then that's nothing more than a guess. Did Patterson say that? No.

How do you know he was guessing? Maybe he heard from someone that would know. Since it is what happened.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

I think patterson was our best/2nd best on the ball defender with a team of dajuan/mccullough,gbinije who can score one on one against tough d you don't get rid of that. just my two cents. A good coach who wants to go far, values tough defensive pressure. Even more with our press.

The kid is not a high D-1 player. His shot is allergic to the basket. I wish him well, but as a player for SU, he was not a difference maker.

 

[Dave85]

If I were in either BJ or RP's position and coach said to me there would be very little chance for playing time next year because of the incoming class then I would consider my options. Nobody want's to be a bench warmer. It's all about the playing time.

 

[cuse2013]

How do you know he was guessing? Maybe he heard from someone that would know. Since it is what happened.

You said: "Dasher's information on the Patterson situation was right on the money."
That hasn't been proven. All we know is Patterson decided to transfer. Just because some person on a message board claims to be in the know doesn't make it true.