2013 recruiting

[rrlbees]

It would be Marrone who was blowing smoke then. He was the one who said it at the post-WVU luncheon.

it was well before october when the claims of the last class being done and we had moved on. but yes, marrone talked of getting in on kids earlier at one of the luncheons.

 

[retro44]

yes i was at a few of his luncheons and he did say that stuff

also said he expects to get a few kids out of texas...fwiw

 

[cusestudent]

when you speak, people listen and hold you accountable. If he brings in Kamara, all is forgiven. If I remember, he was one of the guys that SU thought they could reel in. We were first by a long shot in offering to him.

I have a buddy from school who is a very good friend of Kamara's, and from what Kamara is saying it is between SU and Bama. He does not plan on making a decision anytime soon and Bama has already taken some of the heat off and are pursuing other options. I really think he ends up at SU because Bama gets other early commits from RBs. My main concern at this point is if Georgia Tech offers. A lot of the recruiting sites are getting fed smoke from Kamara and his family on his recruitment.

 

[SUFan44]

of course it is my opinion. that is why i said "you would think". if everything in the process is starting earlier, you would think earlier commitments would also happen, at least with some kids.

Recruiting is a progression. Say you're a start-up program. You get all 1-star recruits to come. And you get a handful of 2-star recruits to come visit. Then the next year, you start earlier, get more 2-star recruits to come visit and you may get 1-3 2-star recruits to sign an NLI and buy in to your program. But it's mostly going to be 1-star recruits. And then the next year, you may get 5-6 guys that are 2-star guys, and maybe 1 might be a 3-star. And so on.

But it's a progression. And you can't go from going 1-10, 2-9 and getting mostly 2-star guys to getting 4-star guys to commit early to you. You just can't. And these are the types of kids we want to get at this point, to move our program forward.

You have to get in early on the kid, expect that the big dogs are going to come, keep your contact with the kid, and hope that the early interaction and the developed relationship will mean something.

A lot of the time, it won't. And we've seen that with Ishaq, etc. But eventually, you hope that your honest approach and interactions with high school coaches and players will rub off and a few will take a chance. And then a few more, and so on. And that's where we are right now. Hoping that a few kids will take a chance.

As CIL has said (or implied), we are being selective. I think the staff believes that we have a bunch of solid guys in the program now in the last two classes, that is basically the "blood" of the program. Think Jason Poles, Quentin Harris, Kaseem Sinceno, Darryl Daniel, Phil Nash. Guys that are good, solid, college players and will help. Now we are looking for impact-type guys that can come in and really be playmakers.

 

[billsin01]

Not necessarily. Just playing devil's advocate for a moment, "getting a jump" on this class could mean that we needed to get our foot in the door with some big fish, which might actually reduce the chance of getting an early commit. I'm not holding my breath this year, though. Unless we can sell the new facilities through some really awesome slide shows and such.

Maybe they'll really embrace a retro feel and use one of those old slide projectors for the slide show. That would be cool. They could have JB appear in one of those plaid jackets he used to wear and everyone in the room could be smoking.

 

[billsin01]

But it's a progression. And you can't go from going 1-10, 2-9 and getting mostly 2-star guys to getting 4-star guys to commit early to you. You just can't. And these are the types of kids we want to get at this point, to move our program forward.

I get what your saying and I think this was a good post but I'm not sure it's as simple as being a progression. A guy like a Zook comes into Illinois and immediately starts landing top 100 kids. Bizarre. I think the answer lies in between -- it's OK to accept the fact that recruiting is going to improve year over year due to stability and time investment in building relationships. But you also have to show some fairly quick results* (first two or three full classes) or you won't see the fruits of your labor.

* -- Results meaning how players play, not stars bestwoed upon them as high schoolers.

 

[billsin01]

when you speak, people listen and hold you accountable. If he brings in Kamara, all is forgiven. If I remember, he was one of the guys that SU thought they could reel in. We were first by a long shot in offering to him.

So you're viewing Kamara as a make or break player for the class? People need to chill out. If we have no recruits by the end of the summer or even into July it's concerning. But it's early May. The difference between having two relatively lightly regarded kids in the fold and having zero is pretty negligible. Everyone needs to chill out.

 

[CuseLegacy]

I have seen a few names mentioned of prospects that will be camping at SU in June. Since camp seems to be the catalyst for verbals, it was last year, does anyone have an idea of who might be attending camp. Hopefully some of those GA prospects.

 

[orangenauburn]

for those in the know: has the quality of camp attendees improved the past few classes? how do this years attendees compare? who is attending that will be 'a name'?

 

[PhatOrange]

for those in the know: has the quality of camp attendees improved the past few classes? how do this years attendees compare? who is attending that will be 'a name'?

I'm getting the vibe that this will be the best quality attended camp in a long time. They will be running several camps, a team camp and (I think) a one day camp. plus the downstate camp usually held at Wagner and last year they ran the one out in Buffalo that irked UB.

 

[CuseLegacy]

I'm getting the vibe that this will be the best quality attended camp in a long time. They will be running several camps, a team camp and (I think) a one day camp. plus the downstate camp usually held at Wagner and last year they ran the one out in Buffalo that irked UB.

According to SUA the team camp has been full for weeks. Also UB had better be prepared to be irked again this year.

 

[GoSU96]

Exactly. So it is the same old same old. Yet some people last year said we were done with that class very early so we could get a jump on this class. It appears those people were wrong since we are where we are. But we'll see.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

They were done, and as you might remember some additional spots opened up after that date.

 

[Noexcuse]

They were done, and as you might remember some additional spots opened up after that date.

Yeah, "done" probably meant they were feeling good with guys who still needed to make their visits but for all practical purposes were "in the fold" based upon what they were saying to their recruiter. A couple of guys changed their mind late, and one decided to go elsewhere after he made his official visit in January.

 

[Van111]

So you're viewing Kamara as a make or break player for the class? People need to chill out. If we have no recruits by the end of the summer or even into July it's concerning. But it's early May. The difference between having two relatively lightly regarded kids in the fold and having zero is pretty negligible. Everyone needs to chill out.

Just having conversation and a future vision is all. This is not DM's 1st, or 2nd, or 3rd recruiting year, but his 4th. Look at programs that really are at our level and where they are at. Do we want to be a Temple or a Wake Forest, who No, Kamara is not a make or break player, but can you tell me the worth of having him on your squad? I compare it to the huge victory we had on the field last year against WV on National TV, it is what it is, a mild stone to moving in the right direction. In recruiting we have missed the past 2 seasons on those marquee players that chose elseware, Ishaq and Jones, bagging a player that is at this level this year would be a mild stone for recruiting is all. We will probably be fine without him, but the depends on your definition what fine is. I am beating a dead horse here when I am saying that the old world of recruiting is over. The game has changed, and it is the early bird that are getting the recruits. This is what we want to be.....I understand that we aren't there yet, but again, if we are to become a contender down the road, this is what we need to be. We need to be back or near the top 30 to be a consistent program to give DM the chance and the talent to make good on his word. being a mid 50's recruiting program, well look at the last 10 years, need I say more. After all, this is what DM has said multiple times last year, that the plan was for some very early recruiting committments. That time is running out quickly and we don't have a ton of offers out there either. A couple of nice pick ups would stem the tide so to speak and give this year something to build on. I don't put any value in "one" individual making or breaking this class period. The whole is stronger than the part. Kamara would be that type of player though that would be a nice feather in DM's recruiting camp, no one could argue that.

 

[SUFan44]

I get what your saying and I think this was a good post but I'm not sure it's as simple as being a progression. A guy like a Zook comes into Illinois and immediately starts landing top 100 kids. Bizarre. I think the answer lies in between -- it's OK to accept the fact that recruiting is going to improve year over year due to stability and time investment in building relationships. But you also have to show some fairly quick results* (first two or three full classes) or you won't see the fruits of your labor.

* -- Results meaning how players play, not stars bestwoed upon them as high schoolers.

Zook went 2-6 in the Big Ten this past year. They made a bowl, congrats to them. But look at that team's progression. They have been totally up and down. Illinois has more losing seasons under Zook than they do winning ones.

I'm not saying that I wouldn't love to see Marrone bring in a Top 100 recruit or two every once in awhile. Or every year. I think everyone would.

But I also think there's no doubt that the athletes we have brought in defensively over the last two years have improved the overall team speed in a drastic way. And I think this past year we focused on doing the same on offense.

The proof is in the pudding, though. I think this is the year that we need to see some of Marrone's guys (Gulley, West, Wales, Lyn, Micah Robinson, Dyshawn Davis) to step up and become top-tier starters. If they don't, and we are not clearly better than we were last year, then I think the criticism of his recruiting strategies and his coaching can be criticized.

 

[CIL]

Just having conversation and a future vision is all. This is not DM's 1st, or 2nd, or 3rd recruiting year, but his 4th. Look at programs that really are at our level and where they are at. Do we want to be a Temple or a Wake Forest?.

This will really be Marrone's third class, since he was hired so late in the game and had only a couple of months to go out and recruit, let alone hire a staff.

As far as Temple and Wake Forest go, those two programs have had decent success over the last few years, including an Orange Bowl appearance. Probably would have been better served using North Texas and Western Kentucky.

 

[billsin01]

Just having conversation and a future vision is all. This is not DM's 1st, or 2nd, or 3rd recruiting year, but his 4th. Look at programs that really are at our level and where they are at. Do we want to be a Temple or a Wake Forest, who No, Kamara is not a make or break player, but can you tell me the worth of having him on your squad? I compare it to the huge victory we had on the field last year against WV on National TV, it is what it is, a mild stone to moving in the right direction. In recruiting we have missed the past 2 seasons on those marquee players that chose elseware, Ishaq and Jones, bagging a player that is at this level this year would be a mild stone for recruiting is all. We will probably be fine without him, but the depends on your definition what fine is. I am beating a dead horse here when I am saying that the old world of recruiting is over. The game has changed, and it is the early bird that are getting the recruits. This is what we want to be.....I understand that we aren't there yet, but again, if we are to become a contender down the road, this is what we need to be. We need to be back or near the top 30 to be a consistent program to give DM the chance and the talent to make good on his word. being a mid 50's recruiting program, well look at the last 10 years, need I say more. After all, this is what DM has said multiple times last year, that the plan was for some very early recruiting committments. That time is running out quickly and we don't have a ton of offers out there either. A couple of nice pick ups would stem the tide so to speak and give this year something to build on. I don't put any value in "one" individual making or breaking this class period. The whole is stronger than the part. Kamara would be that type of player though that would be a nice feather in DM's recruiting camp, no one could argue that.

A few points:

1) I'm generally with you that it would be nice to have some recruits right now and it's nice to land some higher profile kids once in a while.

2) This is DM's third class -- and that's not semantics. He literally had weeks to put his "first class" together.

3) I've said this multiple times but recruiting rankings tend to follow success, not predict it. Our "best classes" were the ones we reeled in toward the end of the McNabb era (98-ish). They were on board for the beginning of our decent. Had you trusted the recruiting rankings you would have predicted a step up towards winning double-digits consistently.

4) Recruiting is absolutely inexact science. Even if you put credence in the star system or offers or film, etc., you have no idea what the kid will do on campus (strength and conditioning, work on technique, grasp of the playbook, academics, off-field incidents, homesickness...).

My only point is that it's fun to talk recruiting but worrying too much about it (unless you are personally scouting players) is fruitless. Get excited when we land a big name type. Get bummed when we lose one. But don't lose sleep over it.

It was literally only maybe six or seven years ago that everyone was complaining that Penn State was taking kids too early and not landing the big fish at the end. That was what was blamed for their struggles. The bottom line is that no one knows much of anything when it comes to objectively ranking these kids and classes against one another.

 

[Van111]

A few points:

1) I'm generally with you that it would be nice to have some recruits right now and it's nice to land some higher profile kids once in a while.

2) This is DM's third class -- and that's not semantics. He literally had weeks to put his "first class" together.

3) I've said this multiple times but recruiting rankings tend to follow success, not predict it. Our "best classes" were the ones we reeled in toward the end of the McNabb era (98-ish). They were on board for the beginning of our decent. Had you trusted the recruiting rankings you would have predicted a step up towards winning double-digits consistently.

4) Recruiting is absolutely inexact science. Even if you put credence in the star system or offers or film, etc., you have no idea what the kid will do on campus (strength and conditioning, work on technique, grasp of the playbook, academics, off-field incidents, homesickness...).

My only point is that it's fun to talk recruiting but worrying too much about it (unless you are personally scouting players) is fruitless. Get excited when we land a big name type. Get bummed when we lose one. But don't lose sleep over it.

It was literally only maybe six or seven years ago that everyone was complaining that Penn State was taking kids too early and not landing the big fish at the end. That was what was blamed for their struggles. The bottom line is that no one knows much of anything when it comes to objectively ranking these kids and classes against one another.

You make great points and I do understand that the first year DM had little time, but so did the Rutgers Coach, who had but a week and still pulled in some great talent almost everyone had moving to other universities. I also understand recruiting and play on the field is definitley not directly related to W's, coaching has alot to do with it, hence Miami and FSU would have been title contenders virtually every year with the talent they bring in, but what I am getting at is a couple of questions on DM moving forward. Are we really moving forward or right direction in recruiting or are we much the same that we have been over the last 10 years? I have not seen the culture change, maybe we shouldn't, maybe DM has a plan, not sure. The second question I have for anyone is...what is the big secreatcy both in practice and really what we are focusing on in recruiting? Is it a reaction to last seasons collapse, or is it part of a master plan by DM to make that culture change for Syracuse?

In fairness to the fans, DM did say look for early changes in recruiting this year, instead we got closed out practices and workouts and very little information on what is going on. I believe although the coaching on the field and the world of recruiting are very different aspects to a successful program, recruiting is the foundation on which you build your house. To another point in this thread earlier, if your house is out of date and you have poor resources, that hurts recruiting. So another words, here we are, into DM's 4th year, we have had 2 losing seasons and arguably a miraculous season when we went 8-5. (A Tribute to DM and his coaching ability on the field) Facilities are still not up to par if you want to be a marquee program, which hurts recruiting, that again will limit SU's chances to be competitive on the field.

As for PSU or even say a Michigan or FSU, unfortunately the trend is getting much more aggressive for early committments. Again, you need to have the resources at hand, you need strong recruiting, and then you need a coach that puts that to work by winning on the field.

 

[Noexcuse]

You make great points and I do understand that the first year DM had little time, but so did the Rutgers Coach, who had but a week and still pulled in some great talent almost everyone had moving to other universities. .

Apples and Oranges with respect to Flood and Marrone. Flood was already on the staff at Rutgers and his main recruiters didn't bolt until after LOI day. Marrone came in late and basically started from scratch with an entire new staff.

 

[Van111]

This will really be Marrone's third class, since he was hired so late in the game and had only a couple of months to go out and recruit, let alone hire a staff.

As far as Temple and Wake Forest go, those two programs have had decent success over the last few years, including an Orange Bowl appearance. Probably would have been better served using North Texas and Western Kentucky.

Wake had a couple of years and Temple too. We'll see how Temple does again in the Big Weast

 

[Van111]

Apples and Oranges with respect to Flood and Marrone. Flood was already on the staff at Rutgers and his main recruiters didn't bolt until after LOI day. Marrone came in late and basically started from scratch with an entire new staff.

I like the ORANGES part, no pun intended!

 

[CaliCuse]

No. I know that Wake and Indiana both are still at zero.

I hope you aren't saying we are in good company here.:bat: I find it baffaling that the % always goes against us early in the recruiting cycles When you consider the number of offers we have made,you might think that just one kid would say"Hell yes I'm going to take thos offer of a quarter million dollar scholarship and play for Syracuse University.:noidea:

 

[bnoro]

I hear you on we have to upgrade, but kids that see a committment to do so in the next year or so will buy in. The question is do we have the recruiting strength to be taken seriously? I don't see the strength in our recruitor's that we need to take the next step. I like what is going on in GA, but NY is not looking good for us at this point, and our mainstay in FLA seems to be week this year in recruiting. Thing is, TW is doing well and establishing himself, what are we doing to protect these guys as well from being pecked by the big boys?

It's not? We have 4 major prospects that view us with high interest. Gus Edwards, Ogundeko, Smith, Williams. We could land all of them.

 

[kirbivore]

Looking at what year's players start their career at Syracuse, this past recruiting class was Marrone's third, correct?

2012: Marrone
2011: Marrone
2010: Marrone
2009: Marrone/Grob
2008: Grob

 

[Van111]

It's not? We have 4 major prospects that view us with high interest. Gus Edwards, Ogundeko, Smith, Williams. We could land all of them.

Yes, we have a solid shot at Edwards, Maybe Laray Smith too, but recruiting has exploded for Ebenezer so I don't like our chances and as far as Williams goes. we have had good luck in getting JUCO transfers, not sure this is a good thing or not. Again, I know it is early, and all the official ratings have yet to be added to the recruits, so we'll jus have to be optimistic you are right.