2013 recruiting | Page 3 | Syracusefan.com

2013 recruiting

I hope you aren't saying we are in good company here.:bat: I find it baffaling that the % always goes against us early in the recruiting cycles When you consider the number of offers we have made,you might think that just one kid would say"Hell yes I'm going to take thos offer of a quarter million dollar scholarship and play for Syracuse University.:noidea:

Agreed. I know our site is saying they offered, but I am not getting any confirmation on any other major recruiting sites we have offered that matches. Do we know for sure what site accuratly states what offers we have out there?
 
when you speak, people listen and hold you accountable. If he brings in Kamara, all is forgiven. If I remember, he was one of the guys that SU thought they could reel in. We were first by a long shot in offering to him.
I would more than love for a kid like Kamara to come to Syracuse Offering first holds little influence on these kind of kids who know that they will be "offered by many schools. Its all part of the entitlement process. they go through once they end their season and the real game begins. which doesn't end in their minds until draft day for the NFL. Not many regard acdemic achiement and opportunity equally to the chance to get huge $ from the professional sport they play.
 
It would be Marrone who was blowing smoke then. He was the one who said it at the post-WVU luncheon.

Not sure he was blowing smoke but he was definitely wrong we were far from done and he didnt see the decommits coming. Fact of the matter is we blew the LB situation last year and turned at least 2-3 kids away we tried to get back on late.
 
Yes, we have a solid shot at Edwards, Maybe Laray Smith too, but recruiting has exploded for Ebenezer so I don't like our chances and as far as Williams goes. we have had good luck in getting JUCO transfers, not sure this is a good thing or not. Again, I know it is early, and all the official ratings have yet to be added to the recruits, so we'll jus have to be optimistic you are right.
What does Ebenezer getting offers have to do with our chances? He has been up here numerous times, has many friends on the team, and wants to play with Gus Edwards, who we also have a terrific shot of landing. Some kids from up north don't want to go south to play football. Maybe he's one of them. Recruiting isn't always about winning and losing. It's about building connections, and Doug has done a great job of building one here.
 
We're in good shape with NYC kids and Williams is solid with SU.
I sure hope you are right, as I must say even though it is early, we seem to be having quite a different strategy in recruiting than what was being said last year. Again, I have mixed feelings on getting JUCO transfers, as it is guaranteed short term, plus they have to fit and learn a new system. I'm going back to another earlier thread, can't believe that a school of Syracuse's magnitude, and I have lived all over the country now, with a very strong base, and strong media ties and academic program, that we can't seem to turn the corner. There is absolutely no reason in my mind why we shouldn't be near the top in recruiting in the Big East, period. At the end of the Pasquloni Era with SU, we began a spiral downward in recruiting which we have yet to recover from. I am just talking recruiting guys, not the big picture. And as for NY dominance, I will believe that when we are pulling in the J. Jones, Ishaq Williams and potentially the high escilian players out of the state of NY like Smith, Laviano or Officer along with a huge contingent of good NY and NYC talent. Lets keep the talent home and if some of you guys are right about these kids from NYC, we can be OK this recruiting year, but I beleieve I speak for many, OK is not good enough. Top 30 each year is where this program needs to be if we expect a full turn around in the program.
 
I would more than love for a kid like Kamara to come to Syracuse Offering first holds little influence on these kind of kids who know that they will be "offered by many schools. Its all part of the entitlement process. they go through once they end their season and the real game begins. which doesn't end in their minds until draft day for the NFL. Not many regard acdemic achiement and opportunity equally to the chance to get huge $ from the professional sport they play.
Kamara, to me at least, is that bigger fish we just seem to get a little tease on each year, but can't get one to bite. He is the type player I would like to see head up our class each and every year.
 
A few points:

1) I'm generally with you that it would be nice to have some recruits right now and it's nice to land some higher profile kids once in a while.

2) This is DM's third class -- and that's not semantics. He literally had weeks to put his "first class" together.

3) I've said this multiple times but recruiting rankings tend to follow success, not predict it. Our "best classes" were the ones we reeled in toward the end of the McNabb era (98-ish). They were on board for the beginning of our decent. Had you trusted the recruiting rankings you would have predicted a step up towards winning double-digits consistently.

4) Recruiting is absolutely inexact science. Even if you put credence in the star system or offers or film, etc., you have no idea what the kid will do on campus (strength and conditioning, work on technique, grasp of the playbook, academics, off-field incidents, homesickness...).

My only point is that it's fun to talk recruiting but worrying too much about it (unless you are personally scouting players) is fruitless. Get excited when we land a big name type. Get bummed when we lose one. But don't lose sleep over it.

It was literally only maybe six or seven years ago that everyone was complaining that Penn State was taking kids too early and not landing the big fish at the end. That was what was blamed for their struggles. The bottom line is that no one knows much of anything when it comes to objectively ranking these kids and classes against one another.
With respect to number 4,Doug has zero faith in the star system. I would suggest to him that the top programs manage to secure the players with the highest number of stars . Those players do NOT have to be "coached up!" Lets see how much difference a Ron Thompson makes at TE as opposed to another kid named Addazio. :p
 
With respect to number 4,Doug has zero faith in the star system. I would suggest to him that the top programs manage to secure the players with the highest number of stars . Those players do NOT have to be "coached up!" Lets see how much difference a Ron Thompson makes at TE as opposed to another kid named Addazio. :p
Albeit, the star system is what it is, there is still value in it, as you don't get highly rated by one person. Again, that doesn't compute to on campus and academic ability whether or not you have starts or not, remember the Dr Suess Story on this one, but in the case of Thompson, arguably our best recruit from last season, DM may be shown the light some if he performs as expected.
 
You make great points and I do understand that the first year DM had little time, but so did the Rutgers Coach, who had but a week and still pulled in some great talent almost everyone had moving to other universities. I also understand recruiting and play on the field is definitley not directly related to W's, coaching has alot to do with it, hence Miami and FSU would have been title contenders virtually every year with the talent they bring in, but what I am getting at is a couple of questions on DM moving forward. Are we really moving forward or right direction in recruiting or are we much the same that we have been over the last 10 years? I have not seen the culture change, maybe we shouldn't, maybe DM has a plan, not sure. The second question I have for anyone is...what is the big secreatcy both in practice and really what we are focusing on in recruiting? Is it a reaction to last seasons collapse, or is it part of a master plan by DM to make that culture change for Syracuse?

In fairness to the fans, DM did say look for early changes in recruiting this year, instead we got closed out practices and workouts and very little information on what is going on. I believe although the coaching on the field and the world of recruiting are very different aspects to a successful program, recruiting is the foundation on which you build your house. To another point in this thread earlier, if your house is out of date and you have poor resources, that hurts recruiting. So another words, here we are, into DM's 4th year, we have had 2 losing seasons and arguably a miraculous season when we went 8-5. (A Tribute to DM and his coaching ability on the field) Facilities are still not up to par if you want to be a marquee program, which hurts recruiting, that again will limit SU's chances to be competitive on the field.

As for PSU or even say a Michigan or FSU, unfortunately the trend is getting much more aggressive for early committments. Again, you need to have the resources at hand, you need strong recruiting, and then you need a coach that puts that to work by winning on the field.
rutgers class was in place prior to flood---coaching staff still there except schiano
 
In my opinion Doug just closed our best class in years. Who knows but i for one really like this class. Sure should he have stayed on a few of the LB's longer ok but other than that he brought in some very top kids and many in positions of need. I like the DE's I love our RB's two quality TE's three strong DT's..
 
In my opinion Doug just closed our best class in years. Who knows but i for one really like this class. Sure should he have stayed on a few of the LB's longer ok but other than that he brought in some very top kids and many in positions of need. I like the DE's I love our RB's two quality TE's three strong DT's..

Agree. You may not see it in the rankings, but based upon the quality of offers and also the early commits that bigger schools were trying to poach late, it's pretty clear there's a lot of talent on paper in that class. Whether it develops down the road is another thing but comparative to other signing days I was pretty happy.
 
Recruit ratings follow the success of the schools that offer the prospects. Ever notice how a kid magically jumps from 2 to 4 stars when a school like Alabama comes into the picture? 3,4, and 5 star recruits are all the same.
 
And as for NY dominance, I will believe that when we are pulling in the J. Jones, Ishaq Williams and potentially the high escilian players out of the state of NY like Smith, Laviano or Officer along with a huge contingent of good NY and NYC talent. .
Please stop doing this.

Officer and Smith are not Jones/Ishaq kids. Ogundeko and Edwards are like those two, but even mentioning Edwards there is pushing it. Ogundeko is truly an upper echelon player that we have a great shot at landing. But what about Wayne Morgan? Brandon Reddish? Ashton Broyld? You're ignoring many kids here that are better players than Smith, Laviano, and Officer to prove a point.

Officer's been struggling in camps so far, will need a strong summer to gain more offers.

Smith is a good NYC recruit, very fast, but also doesn't have many high level offers.

Laviano is pretty much going to Rutgers, so I felt like you threw that in there so you can say I told you so when he doesn't come here. Also we haven't and probably aren't going to offer him because he doesn't fit the system.
 
With respect to number 4,Doug has zero faith in the star system. I would suggest to him that the top programs manage to secure the players with the highest number of stars . Those players do NOT have to be "coached up!" Lets see how much difference a Ron Thompson makes at TE as opposed to another kid named Addazio. :p
I would suggest to you that the rivals/scout school sites that get the most subscribers get the players with the highest number of stars.

Doug should have little faith in the star system. He identified Julian Whigham when he was not even on some sites and then by the end of the process he was blowing up. Doug has a better eye for talent than a$$clowns like Bob Lichtenfels.
 
Please stop doing this.

Officer and Smith are not Jones/Ishaq kids. Ogundeko and Edwards are like those two, but even mentioning Edwards there is pushing it. Ogundeko is truly an upper echelon player that we have a great shot at landing. But what about Wayne Morgan? Brandon Reddish? Ashton Broyld? You're ignoring many kids here that are better players than Smith, Laviano, and Officer to prove a point.

Officer's been struggling in camps so far, will need a strong summer to gain more offers.

Smith is a good NYC recruit, very fast, but also doesn't have many high level offers.

Laviano is pretty much going to Rutgers, so I felt like you threw that in there so you can say I told you so when he doesn't come here. Also we haven't and probably aren't going to offer him because he doesn't fit the system.

Donnie Manhatten 2.0
 
I would suggest to you that the rivals/scout school sites that get the most subscribers get the players with the highest number of stars.

Doug should have little faith in the star system. He identified Julian Whigham when he was not even on some sites and then by the end of the process he was blowing up. Doug has a better eye for talent than a$$clowns like Bob Lichtenfels.

I agree 100% and then some.
 
Agree. You may not see it in the rankings, but based upon the quality of offers and also the early commits that bigger schools were trying to poach late, it's pretty clear there's a lot of talent on paper in that class. Whether it develops down the road is another thing but comparative to other signing days I was pretty happy.


Completely agree--great post.
 
Recruit ratings follow the success of the schools that offer the prospects. Ever notice how a kid magically jumps from 2 to 4 stars when a school like Alabama comes into the picture? 3,4, and 5 star recruits are all the same.

Not exactly.

5 and 4 star recruits may be similar, but, generally speaking, there is a pretty big gap between the 5/4 star recruits and the rest.

This article looks at the players selected in the first round of the NFL draft and goes back to see how these players were "rated" by r*vals website coming out of high school. As you can see, although 5 and 4 star recruits represent just 12.7% (1.3% were 5 star recruits, 11.4% were rated as 4 star recruits) of all college football players for the time period looked at, these players accounted for 59.8% of the players choosen in the first round of the NFL Draft from 2007-2011!

http://r*vals.yahoo.com/ncaa/footba...-at-the-top-of-the-nfl-draft?urn=ncaaf,wp1103

(you will have to replace the "*" with "i" in the link above, or just google "Matt Hinton Star Power: How recruiting rankings hold up at the top of the NFL Draft")

I'd say those are some definitive stats. Essentially, from 2003-2008 the recruiting website identified 208 high school football players that they ranked as "5 star players" and 1,807 that they ranked as "4 star players", out of a pool of about 15,877 total players. And for those players to make up almost 60% of all the players selected within the first round of the NFL Draft from 2007-2011 is simply staggering, IMO.

Edit: Here is an article about the 2012 NFL Draft first round:

http://www.athlonsports.com/nfl/nfl-draft-do-recruiting-rankings-matter
 
Please stop doing this.

Officer and Smith are not Jones/Ishaq kids. Ogundeko and Edwards are like those two, but even mentioning Edwards there is pushing it. Ogundeko is truly an upper echelon player that we have a great shot at landing. But what about Wayne Morgan? Brandon Reddish? Ashton Broyld? You're ignoring many kids here that are better players than Smith, Laviano, and Officer to prove a point.

Officer's been struggling in camps so far, will need a strong summer to gain more offers.

Smith is a good NYC recruit, very fast, but also doesn't have many high level offers.

Laviano is pretty much going to Rutgers, so I felt like you threw that in there so you can say I told you so when he doesn't come here. Also we haven't and probably aren't going to offer him because he doesn't fit the system.

Miss the point, totally agree with you that this years class doesn't have a caliber player of Ishaq or Jones. We are talking recruiting domination in NY and getting the best talent, or in the running, is all each year, especially in DM's back yard in NYC. We have yet to bring in the best talent overall to call ourselves NY's CFB program, which by default we are as their is no power house team in NY. I know we can't bag them all nor should we, but we should be, or would be nice to be a clear front runner on the majority of NY talent if we are going to call ourselves NYs CFB team and command the recruiting market in this area. Understand that some kids don't fit the system, that is just the way it is. I am really not talking about any one position or person from the state of NY, I am talking the talk we have heard that we are taking back our state. DM has made strides in that area, but has yet to show that we are the dominating program in the state of NY. A good class here would help all that. As for Officer, almost all these kids have a bad camp, and as for Laviano, a Pro Style QB doesn't fit our system? (And no, I will not say I told you so if he signs with Rutgers, like you said we never even offered him, so why would he want to go where he isn't wanted) Are we changing something about our offense? If he goes to to Rutgers, so be it. As ofr any of these kids, so be it, but to outright say we are NY's team, and we will own it, is in my book. Morgan was a nice surprise for us last year and DM may have something up his sleave this year too.
Does anyone have an accurate count as to how many slots we have for the 2013 year? My math is saying it is right around 20-22 slots depending on transfers and red shirt senior players coming off injury. We still have 2 from the 2012 recruiting year that are question marks. So could be as many as 26 or as low as 18 if I'm counting correctly. If it is on the low end, much of this years "slow out of the gate" in recruiting would be better understood. Just want the program to keep taking steps in the right direction. All too often, nice guys finish last, so maybe this years silence is a change that will be a good thing. In the meantime, people like me will bring up our concerns. I will easily shut up when Edwards and Ebeneezer sign on! :)
 
In my opinion Doug just closed our best class in years. Who knows but i for one really like this class. Sure should he have stayed on a few of the LB's longer ok but other than that he brought in some very top kids and many in positions of need. I like the DE's I love our RB's two quality TE's three strong DT's..
I like it but it did have some holes in it. Again, we are 2 short for a couple of different reasons, so who knows, he may be on to something, we won't know until they play a couple of years to see how it all turns out. This class for the most part is a class that needs to be developed, so it will be in the ACC when we see how good they turn out. I am not sold that this is the type class that makes us a contender, but I would buy the ticket and will any way. A power house program in Upstate NY would mean alot for the regional area as well besides the Wins and Losses Column.
 
Just a comment guys, we are all quick to snub Scouts, Rivals, and ESPN (as well as others) rating systems as over rated and money grubbers, especially the "star" programs. I wonder how many of us would be complaining about it if it was our team pulling in a bunch of 5, 4 and top 3 star talent from this pool. Yes, they don't get it right all of the time, as it still comes down to the individual, but there isn't a one of you that would be complaining about a 5/4 star talent coming here, in fact we would all have something new to talk about.
 
Just a comment guys, we are all quick to snub Scouts, Rivals, and ESPN (as well as others) rating systems as over rated and money grubbers, especially the "star" programs. I wonder how many of us would be complaining about it if it was our team pulling in a bunch of 5, 4 and top 3 star talent from this pool. Yes, they don't get it right all of the time, as it still comes down to the individual, but there isn't a one of you that would be complaining about a 5/4 star talent coming here, in fact we would all have something new to talk about.

I trust Boeheim over those "experts" and we do quite well with the 4/5 star guys in hoops. One of the problems Bowden had at FSU was he went and recruited off the services, he got lazy and let them do the work for him and see where that went? I agree that it comes from the individual but a reputation can garner you a 4/5 star and it's also possible the kid peaked too early as well or a score of different reasons as you already know. I'd love to get guys that Marrone and his staff have considered a 4/5 over any service.
 
Yes, we have a solid shot at Edwards, Maybe Laray Smith too, but recruiting has exploded for Ebenezer so I don't like our chances and as far as Williams goes. we have had good luck in getting JUCO transfers, not sure this is a good thing or not. Again, I know it is early, and all the official ratings have yet to be added to the recruits, so we'll jus have to be optimistic you are right.
While I like the optimism, "Having a shot" is no where near enough. Until they become oOrangemen and assigned uniform numbers its all conjecture at best.:crazy:
 
Not exactly.

5 and 4 star recruits may be similar, but, generally speaking, there is a pretty big gap between the 5/4 star recruits and the rest.

This article looks at the players selected in the first round of the NFL draft and goes back to see how these players were "rated" by r*vals website coming out of high school. As you can see, although 5 and 4 star recruits represent just 12.7% (1.3% were 5 star recruits, 11.4% were rated as 4 star recruits) of all college football players for the time period looked at, these players accounted for 59.8% of the players choosen in the first round of the NFL Draft from 2007-2011!

http://r*vals.yahoo.com/ncaa/footba...-at-the-top-of-the-nfl-draft?urn=ncaaf,wp1103

(you will have to replace the "*" with "i" in the link above, or just google "Matt Hinton Star Power: How recruiting rankings hold up at the top of the NFL Draft")

I'd say those are some definitive stats. Essentially, from 2003-2008 the recruiting website identified 208 high school football players that they ranked as "5 star players" and 1,807 that they ranked as "4 star players", out of a pool of about 15,877 total players. And for those players to make up almost 60% of all the players selected within the first round of the NFL Draft from 2007-2011 is simply staggering, IMO.

Edit: Here is an article about the 2012 NFL Draft first round:

http://www.athlonsports.com/nfl/nfl-draft-do-recruiting-rankings-matter
Point taken, but how many outside factors are there? Let's see that overlaid with where these kids went to school because there is a big difference between the development of kids at Alabama compared to SU. Plus all you're going with is draft picks, how many of the five stars are busts once they get to the pros and size and speed are no longer a huge factor?
 

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