2015 NFL season general discussion thread

[ssbriefcase]

If you watched the game, name one iffy call on the Giants...

I can name 3 on Buffalo.

-Clay Offensive PI
-Incognito chop block
-Holding that negated a 35 yard TT touchdown run

2 of those calls brought back Touchdowns.

Oh, and here's 2 iffy non-calls on the Giants.

-No roughing the passer on TT in the pocket
-No roughing the passer on TT on the sideline.

I was traveling and listening on the radio. The announcers called out the chop block and called bs on it and explained why. But then spent many minutes commenting on how ridiculous the Bills were in fault of their own on 15 penalties (at the time). Like I said before, I have seen terrible ref's as we all have, and terrible calls, but it seems to me to be a pattern of blame just for the Bills. Well now I'll have to watch more Bills games and see.
And Tom Coughlin saw it coming and called it. 31 penalties in their 2 losses, that isn't on the refs for the most part.

 

[Melancer46]

The hold was awful imo, but I can understand the chop block call and at that point the TD would've only given us a glimmer of hope, down 7 with a minute left and 3 timeouts. However, the hold call on the Taylor TD run was one of those 50/50 calls that always seem to go against Buffalo. When announcers openly question a call, it usually shouldn't have been made and that one was hugely pivotal in the game. Nevermind the fact that our defensive line gets held on the reg and people like Kyle Williams are actually bringing up the refs which in his 10+ years in the league, he's never done.

I thought the refs were spiteful at the end as well. Honestly, no reason to not call at least one late hit on TT when there were two questionable ones in a row after the game got chippy but they sure as hell were ready to throw Personal Foul flags on us with the quickness.

I can't really speak on the late hits on Tyrod; I didn't really notice them. As for the late personal foul calls, I feel like the refs were making sure things didn't get out of hand. There was a scrum in there where it looked like Preston Brown wound up to punch someone before thinking better of it and just sort of pushing the guy in the face instead of punching. The Bills pretty clearly lost their cool down the stretch, which is understandable, but I would have thought that after how over the top they were against the Patriots, Rex would have driven home the point that they have to keep their heads on straight.

 

[Ghost]

And the players caused them to be thrown, quit blaming the refs and look to the team itself.

Are bad calls made at times, sure, but no team loses solely on some premeditated ref agenda.

There was some ref the NFL stopped allowing to officiate Chargers / Broncos games for like a decade. Pretty sure it was because they suspected that... Forget the details, but will look it up. Pretty famous ref too. When they finally lifted the ban, he screwed up an end of game call too in the first one back - mis-applied a rule change.

 

[Orangeman]

As a kinda Bills fan (Tampa is unfortunately my favorite team, but I spent my childhood going to Bills training camp every day/my family are all Bills fans so I watch all of their games and root for them as long as they aren't facing the Bucs), I thought the hold on Tyrod's touchdown run and the chop block were both correct calls. It seemed that the hold was one that could have gone either way; Bromley surely tried to sell it to the ref and it worked. The chop block I thought was pretty obvious though.

Chop block was clearly wrong

You're allowed to double team and second player engaged above the waist

 

[BuffOrange]

This happened in the Jets-Pats Thursday night game last yr too. We were told it happens all the time. Except for Buffalo I guess.

 

[Melancer46]

Chop block was clearly wrong

You're allowed to double team and second player engaged above the waist

I guess this depends on where you believe Incognito technically engaged the guy. His helmet hit him just above his waist, but he was pushing with his arms below the waist. It was certainly higher than most chop blocks that you see get called, but it was something that I thought would be called immediately when it happened.

 

[longislandcuse]

I guess this depends on where you believe Incognito technically engaged the guy. His helmet hit him just above his waist, but he was pushing with his arms below the waist. It was certainly higher than most chop blocks that you see get called, but it was something that I thought would be called immediately when it happened.

We can at least agree that a lot of these (in your opinion 50/50 calls) don't get called against Bills opponents (holding of our d-line, pass interferences, late hits etc..) yet those same 50/50 calls get called against Buffalo and in seemingly huge spots. I mean the holding call that negated the TT touchdown run was mega huge.

 

[Alsacs]

I get the frustration of Bills fans as a Red Sox fan I still remember the umpires killing us against the Yankees in the 1999 ALCS and being pissed about it. I didn't think the umps intentionally made bad calls against the Sox all the time. Errors do happen.

Yesterday I think was about no Watkins and McCoy. Williams played well but the Bills didn't execute on offense. Penalties across the league are way up. I don't think the officials target the Bills I think Rex Ryan wants his to be play with energy and sometimes they are too amped up. The hold on Bromley didn't look that bad and should have been a no call. The Incognito chop block was a penalty he was engaged and Richie it hit him right at the waist.

The refs aren't out to get the Bills. To feel differently is too believe in conspiracies.

 

[longislandcuse]

I was traveling and listening on the radio. The announcers called out the chop block and called bs on it and explained why. But then spent many minutes commenting on how ridiculous the Bills were in fault of their own on 15 penalties (at the time). Like I said before, I have seen terrible ref's as we all have, and terrible calls, but it seems to me to be a pattern of blame just for the Bills. Well now I'll have to watch more Bills games and see.
And Tom Coughlin saw it coming and called it. 31 penalties in their 2 losses, that isn't on the refs for the most part.

A lot of the Bills losing composure was at the end of the game, when Robert Woods was stood up for about 45 minutes before the ball was ripped away from him for a turnover. The Bills defense literally went bad intentions on that drive and Preston Brown legit looked psychotic. That's where it just got insane and the Giants fed into it, initiating confrontations knowing they wouldn't get called for anything but the Bills would...and they did. Tough for me to argue that they should keep it together when they witnessed all game biased officiating. Like I said, for Kyle Williams to call out the refs says something... This guy is one of the most professional people you will find in the NFL.

I'm also not saying we lost because of the refs, as I said before, we lost due to mistakes and horrible play calling for half the game. It was a New England repeat in the bizarre way our defense refused to adjust and Roman refused to attack weaknesses of the defense until the second half when we were behind due to a barrage of 3 and outs.

This game was on Roman's idiotic play calling and Rex's defensive scheme. Those two have called 2 amazing games and 2 piss poor games. Bipolar af right now.

However, teams do play bad and still win, and we could've, maybe should've, the way New York couldn't do anything in the second half but that opportunity was taken away by some seriously one-sided officiating and it seems to happen all the time when we (small market team) play a large market team.

 

[longislandcuse]

I get the frustration of Bills fans as a Red Sox fan I still remember the umpires killing us against the Yankees in the 1999 ALCS and being pissed about it. I didn't think the umps intentionally made bad calls against the Sox all the time. Errors do happen.

Yesterday I think was about no Watkins and McCoy. Williams played well but the Bills didn't execute on offense. Penalties across the league are way up. I don't think the officials target the Bills I think Rex Ryan wants his to be play with energy and sometimes they are too amped up. The hold on Bromley didn't look that bad and should have been a no call. The Incognito chop block was a penalty he was engaged and Richie it hit him right at the waist.

The refs aren't out to get the Bills. To feel differently is too believe in conspiracies.

No Watkins and no McCoy definitely didn't help but once Roman allowed Tyrod Taylor to be Tyrod Taylor we started carving them up, unfortunately that happened too late and when we got to the red zone, Roman got all cute again and it backfired.

You just admitted the hold was a bad call but do you know how huge of a call that was!? Our offense was sputtering up to that point and that was a huge momentum play that makes it a one possession game in the 3rd quarter. Instead we got nothing on that drive. How am I, as a Bills fan, supposed to be cool with that like "Oh, golly, oh well" when that ish happens all the time to us but never seems to happen to our big market opponents? Compound that with all the other "not as huge" controversial calls that were all against Buffalo, none controversial for the G-Men and I don't think Bills fans are being ridiculous about this.

 

[Alsacs]

No Watkins and no McCoy definitely didn't help but once Roman allowed Tyrod Taylor to be Tyrod Taylor we started carving them up, unfortunately that happened too late and when we got to the red zone, Roman got all cute again and it backfired.

You just admitted the hold was a bad call but do you know how huge of a call that was!? Our offense was sputtering up to that point and that was a huge momentum play that makes it a one possession game in the 3rd quarter. Instead we got nothing on that drive. How am I, as a Bills fan, supposed to be cool with that like "Oh, golly, oh well" when that ish happens all the time to us but never seems to happen to our big market opponents? Compound that with all the other "not as huge" controversial calls that were all against Buffalo, none controversial for the G-Men and I don't think Bills fans are being ridiculous about this.

This "non" call after a flag was thrown probably costed the Patriots a Super Bowl berth 2 years ago. If the Patriots win that that game they host Denver in the AFC title game and likely win.
That call went in favor of the small market Panthers against the glory Patriots. Listen I get frustration as I am Red Sox fan and as I said felt the same way years ago. Bad calls happen to everybody. My team has gotten breaks before and I am sure the Bills have as well.

 

[Tobias Funke]

I guess this depends on where you believe Incognito technically engaged the guy. His helmet hit him just above his waist, but he was pushing with his arms below the waist. It was certainly higher than most chop blocks that you see get called, but it was something that I thought would be called immediately when it happened.

I honestly dont know the rule well enough here, but he certainly looks to have plenty of contact below the waist. Whether his helmet being above makes it ok i am not sure. Not exactly a call where i think the refs had it out for the Bills.

 

[Tobias Funke]

Remember last season, when an official warned a Patriot defender that he was lined up over the center on a Field Goal attempt? Would have been nice if the Bills were warned, instead of flagged for this today - it wound up costing them 4 points.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...o-refs-conduct-on-jets-field-goal-not-unusual

It really is a crapshoot. A year earlier the Pats lost a game on a similar call. Nick folk missed the Field Goal and the Pats were called for covering up the center and he hit the second. I believe it really comes down to the official themselves. I give credit to an official who helps a team avoid a silly penalty. they do it all of the time when the outside wide out lines up a little back of the line of scrimmage. Unfortunately they are hit or miss, i fifty see the play, but the official probably could have made a simple comment to fix that issue, and in my opinion he should have.

 

[Cusefan0307]

So many whistles yesterday in every game, not just the Bills game. Saints/Cowboys had plenty of calls as well. It makes watching games painful. As a Saints fan, I was rooting for the Bills. They were undisciplined. They have over double the amount of personal fouls/unsportsmanlike penalties than the next team.

I think Buffalo is going to struggle against teams that get the ball out quickly on offense. That is going to be the gameplan, because that is how the Pats and Giants beat them. You can't get pressure on the QB if they are getting rid of the ball in less than two seconds.

Even in winning, the Giants didn't play great. Eli played average, he just didn't make the killer mistake, except for the late INT. The Bills left a lot of plays on the field. Charles Clay was out muscled for an INT. They had two first downs for it seemed like an eternity, and the Giants are suppose to have a below average front 4. They couldn't run the Ball without McCoy, and while Taylor's stats looked ok at the end, he didn't start taking more chances until late. ESPN has him down for a 16 QBR.

 

[samspann1]

As a kinda Bills fan (Tampa is unfortunately my favorite team, but I spent my childhood going to Bills training camp every day/my family are all Bills fans so I watch all of their games and root for them as long as they aren't facing the Bucs), I thought the hold on Tyrod's touchdown run and the chop block were both correct calls. It seemed that the hold was one that could have gone either way; Bromley surely tried to sell it to the ref and it worked. The chop block I thought was pretty obvious though.

I honestly dont know the rule well enough here, but he certainly looks to have plenty of contact below the waist. Whether his helmet being above makes it ok i am not sure. Not exactly a call where i think the refs had it out for the Bills.

My understanding is that the NFL rule book states that in order to be an illegal chop block, the point of contact has to be below the thigh.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Also I'd like to add the Drew Brees throws the ball harder with a hurt rotator cuff, than Peyton Manning does on the norm these days, although Brees was somewhat limited last night, they kept most of the game short and he was as accurate as he's always been.

I can't believe how much Manning has lost it. He has arguably one of the best tandem of wideouts in the game and they can't play to their strength because Manning has no accuracy deeper than ten yards. The Broncos better hope that defense can beat New England and Cincinnati in January, because they aren't putting 30 plus on the regular anymore throwing bubble screens all day.

 

[BuffOrange]

This "non" call after a flag was thrown probably costed the Patriots a Super Bowl berth 2 years ago. If the Patriots win that that game they host Denver in the AFC title game and likely win.
That call went in favor of the small market Panthers against the glory Patriots. Listen I get frustration as I am Red Sox fan and as I said felt the same way years ago. Bad calls happen to everybody. My team has gotten breaks before and I am sure the Bills have as well.

That same year your LT tackled a Saints pass-rusher on a game winning throw in the final minute and got a garbage 40yd PI vs Cleveland when losing in the final minute. And yet that season is still your go-to example of getting the short end. Hilarious.

 

[Cusefan0307]

That same year your LT tackled a Saints pass-rusher on a game winning throw in the final minute and got a garbage 40yd PI vs Cleveland when losing in the final minute. And yet that season is still your go-to example of getting the short end. Hilarious.

I'm a Saints fan and I don't even remember that play. I assume you are talking about this game.

http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=331013017

All I remember is that garbage WR Thompkins catching the late TD after they completely shut down Jimmy Graham that day.

 

[BuffOrange]

 

[Alsacs]

That same year your LT tackled a Saints pass-rusher on a game winning throw in the final minute and got a garbage 40yd PI vs Cleveland when losing in the final minute. And yet that season is still your go-to example of getting the short end. Hilarious.

Dude let the hatred of the Patriots go. The Saints call is you okay because I remember no controversy at all the non-holding call you have said it numerous times and I have believed you. PI is always called horribly by refs. The PI vs. Cleveland didn't win the game if the Cleveland recovers the onside kick it doesn't happen second. All that penalty did was give the Pats a lot easier drive. If they don't get that call the game isn't over as the Pats had a minute left and still good field position. In fact they scored with enough time for Cleveland to drive the ball and attempt a 55 yd FG they missed.

You don't like the Patriots I get it. However your points are hilarious to me because the Panther game call was literally the last play of the game when the ref THREW a flag. Yet you go back to a hold nobody complained about and PI that didn't even decide the game. Okay I am hilarious sure.

 

[Alsacs]

My point is bad calls happen to everyone. Yet reading this thread it would give off that the NFL has it out for the Buffalo Bills and never has bad calls against the glamour teams. Bad calls happen every year and every team has had them in their favor and against them.
No team is treated better or worse.

 

[Cusefan0307]

If I'm a Buffalo fan, I am nervous about the next couple of weeks. At Tennessee will not be a cakewalk. Then they get Cincinnati before two relatively easy games against Jacksonville and Miami. That game at home against the Giants was incredibly important to their season. The Bills have 5 home games and 7 road games left. They are already 1-2 at home and still need to go to New England and KC. They also need to go to Washington, and that isn't an automatic game like a lot of fans think. They are probably going to have to win 4 or 5 road games to make the playoffs.

 

[KaiserUEO]

bottom line: 24-10. the GIANTS waltzed into buffalo and kicked the snot out of them.

the game was NEVER in doubt.

 

[BuffOrange]

Dude let the hatred of the Patriots go. The Saints call is you okay because I remember no controversy at all the non-holding call you have said it numerous times and I have believed you. PI is always called horribly by refs. The PI vs. Cleveland didn't win the game if the Cleveland recovers the onside kick it doesn't happen second. All that penalty did was give the Pats a lot easier drive. If they don't get that call the game isn't over as the Pats had a minute left and still good field position. In fact they scored with enough time for Cleveland to drive the ball and attempt a 55 yd FG they missed.

You don't like the Patriots I get it. However your points are hilarious to me because the Panther game call was literally the last play of the game when the ref THREW a flag. Yet you go back to a hold nobody complained about and PI that didn't even decide the game. Okay I am hilarious sure.

It's just always the same moving goalposts with you. Now the threshold for complaining is "my arbitrarily determined acceptable # of people complained about it". As if a Sunday game with Solomon Wilcox on commentary will get as much buzz as a Monday Night game. And there's always something the losing team could've done better elsewhere in the game...except when it's not getting a high leverage PI call on the road which is pretty normal for most fans. Robert Woods was mugged on game-ending int in Houston last yr but for us that goes in the "oh well, that's normal" category. Most fanbases also don't have a national Bill Simmons type voice to gripe about some series they lost in 5 games 16yrs ago.

 

[Alsacs]

If I'm a Buffalo fan, I am nervous about the next couple of weeks. At Tennessee will not be a cakewalk. Then they get Cincinnati before two relatively easy games against Jacksonville and Miami. That game at home against the Giants was incredibly important to their season. The Bills have 5 home games and 7 road games left. They are already 1-2 at home and still need to go to New England and KC. They also need to go to Washington, and that isn't an automatic game like a lot of fans think. They are probably going to have to win 4 or 5 road games to make the playoffs.

Buffalo will still make it I believe. Mariota won't be able to get rid of the ball fast. I think Buffalo beats Dalton at home. I see them 6-3 going into NE.