2015 NFL season general discussion thread

[Alsacs]

It's just always the same moving goalposts with you. Now the threshold for complaining is "my arbitrarily determined acceptable # of people complained about it". As if a Sunday game with Solomon Wilcox on commentary will get as much buzz as a Monday Night game. And there's always something the losing team could've done better elsewhere in the game...except when it's not getting a high leverage PI call on the road which is pretty normal for most fans. Robert Woods was mugged on game-ending int in Houston last yr but for us that goes in the "oh well, that's normal" category. Most fanbases also don't have a national Bill Simmons type voice to gripe about some series they lost in 5 games 16yrs ago.

Listen I am not always right. I get that. I have no problem having any discussion though. My point wasn't to get into every game. I honestly kinda want Buffalo break their streak and get into the playoffs. Now I don't want them to win the division.

I believe missed calls and bad calls happen to every team. I don't think they happen to one team on purpose. Once you get a QB you compete in the NFL that is pure and simple of it all.

BTW I consider Simmons a douche now he got stale maybe with his move to HBO he might become better but ESPN neutered him.

 

[BuffOrange]

If I'm a Buffalo fan, I am nervous about the next couple of weeks. At Tennessee will not be a cakewalk. Then they get Cincinnati before two relatively easy games against Jacksonville and Miami. That game at home against the Giants was incredibly important to their season. The Bills have 5 home games and 7 road games left. They are already 1-2 at home and still need to go to New England and KC. They also need to go to Washington, and that isn't an automatic game like a lot of fans think. They are probably going to have to win 4 or 5 road games to make the playoffs.

I know this will sound lame in hindsight, but I was more nervous about yesterday after coming off three consecutive emotional games (ya Miami was a big game at the time). Plus Rex teams in NJ never seemed much better at home; not sure if that was a stadium thing ('cause the same is true of the Giants) or what. I'm not really nervous because these are games a playoff caliber team should win if they're that good. Washington is definitely underrated; I've bet on them ATS in every home game, should be 3-0. We owe KC big-time after destroying them on the stat sheet and giving the game away two years in a row (thx Jeff Tuel & Bryce Brown).

 

[BuffOrange]

Listen I am not always right. I get that. I have no problem having any discussion though. My point wasn't to get into every game. I honestly kinda want Buffalo break their streak and get into the playoffs. Now I don't want them to win the division.

I believe missed calls and bad calls happen to every team. I don't think they happen to one team on purpose. Once you get a QB you compete in the NFL that is pure and simple of it all.

BTW I consider Simmons a douche now he got stale maybe with his move to HBO he might become better but ESPN neutered him.

I don't think I'll ever be able to resist the 'Guess the Lines' Monday pod with Cousin Sal. His Friday show with his buddy House was terrible. Basically a bunch of "well the Eagles 2-8 coming off east coast road games where they wear green jerseys so I like the Rams" type useless stats.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I don't think Buffalo is out of it by any sense of the imagination, the AFC has 3 top teams in New England, Cincy and Denver. After that the conference has looked weak this year, but I still think Sunday is a must win if they want to make the playoffs. Roethlisberger will be back eventually and you can't count on the Ravens being terrible all year.

 

[longislandcuse]

I don't think Buffalo is out of it by any sense of the imagination, the AFC has 3 top teams in New England, Cincy and Denver. After that the conference has looked weak this year, but I still think Sunday is a must win if they want to make the playoffs. Roethlisberger will be back eventually and you can't count on the Ravens being terrible all year.

They HAVE to be at least 4-3 going into the bye and if they're not with Tenn/Jax and a home game against Cinci then they clearly aren't a playoff team. Scary thing is, I can see them winning all 3 (Dalton doesn't scare me like Good Eli and Brady) or losing 2 out of 3 because we can't control ourselves.

Eli/Brady got the ball out quick but the common theme was a super slow start for the offense. Roman has to open it up and let Taylor do his thing. Both games, his play calling through 2 1/2 quarters was maddeningly vanilla and led to 3 and outs and great opposing field position. Our defense should be much better and Rex needs to take ownership of their shortcomings with all the talent he has but Roman can't call these super vanilla games against teams with a cerebral QB who can read defenses and get the ball out quick. He finally opened it up and not shockingly, Taylor flourished. (Until the redzone play calling or penalties negated him)

 

[BuffOrange]

Think they have to be 5-2 & think they will. I'm a Tmobile fan but Roman doesn't forget good playcalls on even # weeks. The QB can't start 2 of 10 completions. The leak out to Woods was a TD if he throws it sooner. Not sure the goaline fail even hurt that much tbh 'cause nyg ran give up plays to avoid a safety and gave the ball back in good field position which btw is why you go for it down there every time.

 

[longislandcuse]

Think they have to be 5-2 & think they will. I'm a Tmobile fan but Roman doesn't forget good playcalls on even # weeks. The QB can't start 2 of 10 completions. The leak out to Woods was a TD if he throws it sooner. Not sure the goaline fail even hurt that much tbh 'cause nyg ran give up plays to avoid a safety and gave the ball back in good field position which btw is why you go for it down there every time.

I think our only tough games are against teams with smart, cerebral QBs who can get the ball out quick, to the hot reads with accuracy. Luckily, there aren't many of them. When we do face those QB's we need Roman to not run the offense like this is 1940 because they will score on this defense unless Rex figures out how he managed to make the most talented pound for pound defense in the league to middle of the pack status.

I'm also a big Tyrod Taylor fan. If we would use him like Russell Wilson and not try to shove "Pocket QB" down everyone's throat for 2 quarters at a time, this offense would be dynamic as shown by the first 3 games and ta-da, when we finally opened it up against the Giants.

 

[ssbriefcase]

Now what just happened to the Lions is true robbery by the refs not knowing the rule!! That took a win away from them.

 

[KaiserUEO]

Now what just happened to the Lions is true robbery by the refs not knowing the rule!! That took a win away from them.

terrible.

how was that not seen?????

 

[Alsacs]

Lions got jobbed. That was the same endzone and it was against an NFC North team when the Fail Mary call was made by replacement refs.

 

[ssbriefcase]

And it was awkward with Steve Young saying it used to happen all the time without it ever being called.

 

[Alsacs]

And it was awkward with Steve Young saying it used to happen all the time without it ever being called.

Young and Ray Lewis embarrassed themselves with their statements post game. The refs should know the freaking rules and why didn't the damn booth upstairs even review it.

To Young's point there is a difference between going for a fumble and it being batted in a scrum or knowingly batting it which the Seattle defender did which is a penalty.
This is what Lewis verbatim. "There's just so many rules….that mistake won't be paid for…the rules are….ahh"
My god ESPN you make 50 billion dollars a year please get some freaking analysts.

 

[samspann1]

The officiating in the NFL is a joke.

The league's spin on the blown call is laughable, and insulting, to anyone with half a brain.

 

[MSOrange]

Young and Ray Lewis embarrassed themselves with their statements post game. The refs should know the freaking rules and why didn't the damn booth upstairs even review it.

To Young's point there is a difference between going for a fumble and it being batted in a scrum or knowingly batting it which the Seattle defender did which is a penalty.
This is what Lewis verbatim. "There's just so many rules….that mistake won't be paid for…the rules are….ahh"
My god ESPN you make 50 billion dollars a year please get some freaking analysts.

It really is amazing. I think they had 4 analysts there and none of them say anything worth listening to.

 

[Orangeman]

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/10/4/9450735/buffalo-bills-richie-incognito-nfl-dirty

This is not even CLOSE to a chop block. Not even close. Richie hits the player in the RIB CAGE.

this would have been the game-tying TD following the other absurd penalty on TT's rushing TD

And then the absurd call last night. TELL ME the NFL isn't a complete sham.

it's WWF from 1987

 

[MSOrange]

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/10/4/9450735/buffalo-bills-richie-incognito-nfl-dirty

This is not even CLOSE to a chop block. Not even close. Richie hits the player in the RIB CAGE.

this would have been the game-tying TD following the other absurd penalty on TT's rushing TD

And then the absurd call last night. TELL ME the NFL isn't a complete sham.

it's WWF from 1987

I'm a Bills fan also and totally agree that there were some missed calls in addition to the Bills shooting themselves in the own foot. But just curious, why do you watch if you're that convinced it's all fixed?

 

[Orangeman]

Good question, because I have nothing else to do.

No, the real answer is it hasn't always been fixed (rise of Kraft and Goodell 15+ years ago) and I've been a fan for a lot longer than that.

The fix started when the TV contracts started becoming more lucrative than the the people watching in the stadiums.

One more...the same inattentive officials who missed this call had the awareness to take off a Roughing the Passer penalty because the Bills blocked him into the QB (another call that our own Daryl Johnston thought was BS). Looney tunes

 

[Alsacs]

Yeah I guess hiring one of the best coaches of alltime Bill Belichick and lucking into an alltime great QB Tom Brady has nothing to do with the rise of Kraft. I dread the future when Brady is gone and the Pats become looking for a QB like everyone else is now.

TV contracts for all sports have risen thru the roof because Sports is live TV content that people will watch and advertisers will spend money putting ADs on knowing people will watch live and won't DVR thru commercials like they do for TV shows on cable and broadcast TV. MLB, NBA, College conferences have ALL seen their TV revenue spike dramatically but because of all this the NFL referees have a fix to screw one team in Buffalo, NY.

Again bad calls happen to every team. Breaks happen for every team. Did the refs want Seattle to win last night? Has the fix been in Seattle all these years? or maybe have they gotten a QB to go with a good team and now they are perennial contenders.

The Bills won a lot of games when they had HOF QB Jim Kelly and Patriots lost a lot of games when their QB was Steve Grogan and Tony Eason.

These conspiracies are not real.

 

[Orangeman]

1) The Bills' run was pre-conspiracy...in fact, I haven't looked at it, but that probably provided evidence on what can "go wrong" in terms of television viewers for the NFL to make them rethink their strategy. Would be interesting to look at

2) Every once in a while a team is allowed to break-through: Saints post-Katrina, Seattle with feelgood story,

3) The Patriots might never have made a Super Bowl if the absurd tuck rule call didn't happen, etc etc. Belichek is not "bad", but let's not act like he's won everywhere he went. Something magical happened when he went to the Patriots that he couldn't quite produce in Cleveland...yes, he got a good QB, but also the breaks certainly started going their way I've argued

The NFL was earlier and more productive/strategic about maximizing TV contracts/revenues. I don't have time to grab the charts, but it's there. Smart.

 

[Alsacs]

1) The Bills' run was pre-conspiracy...in fact, I haven't looked at it, but that probably provided evidence on what can "go wrong" in terms of television viewers for the NFL to make them rethink their strategy. Would be interesting to look at

2) Every once in a while a team is allowed to break-through: Saints post-Katrina, Seattle with feelgood story,

3) The Patriots might never have made a Super Bowl if the absurd tuck rule call didn't happen, etc etc. Belichek is not "bad", but let's not act like he's won everywhere he went. Something magical happened when he went to the Patriots that he couldn't quite produce in Cleveland...yes, he got a good QB, but also the breaks certainly started going their way I've argued

The NFL was earlier and more productive/strategic about maximizing TV contracts/revenues. I don't have time to grab the charts, but it's there. Smart.

The absurd tuck rule was the rule in the rulebook. The Patriots definitely caught a break against the Raiders in 2002 but the rule was correctly called. Also Patriot fans would say it was karma for 1976 when the Raiders got an awful call against the Patriots in the AFC playoffs and went on to win the Super Bowl.

Belichick helped rebuild Cleveland/Baltimore organziation. He hired Ozzie Newsome who is the Ravens GM and learned under Belichick.
Belichick obviously has been lucky to have Brady but after watching him coach these past 15 years he is a HOF coach.

 

[BuffOrange]

Maybe they were better than average for the Bills games but I always thought the replacement refs got a raw deal. When they blew a call it was "threatening the integrity of the game". When these guys suck, "hey man it's football, deal with it".

 

[Melancer46]

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/10/4/9450735/buffalo-bills-richie-incognito-nfl-dirty

This is not even CLOSE to a chop block. Not even close. Richie hits the player in the RIB CAGE.

this would have been the game-tying TD following the other absurd penalty on TT's rushing TD

And then the absurd call last night. TELL ME the NFL isn't a complete sham.

it's WWF from 1987

You can't honestly believe something like this to be true, right?

 

[Orangeman]

You can't honestly believe something like this to be true, right?

What do you mean? The Bills lost by two TDs. They scored two TDs that were taken away.

The first was a really bad holding penalty on Jay Bromley who was already past the play and the announcers (including Daryl Johnston, Cuse is everywhere!) said was a really weak call on Tyrod Taylor's run

The second was this which is clearly NOT chop-blocking

But you're right, if you take account of all the one-sided calls in the game it's probably the game-winning TD

 

[Alsacs]

What do you mean? The Bills lost by two TDs. They scored two TDs that were taken away.

The first was a really bad holding penalty on Jay Bromley who was already past the play and the announcers (including Daryl Johnston, Cuse is everywhere!) said was a really weak call on Tyrod Taylor's run

The second was this which is clearly NOT chop-blocking

But you're right, if you take account of all the one-sided calls in the game it's probably the game-winning TD

How about this one if the Giants are only up 7 at the end of the game maybe they call a run play and kick a FG instead of throwing the ball and Eli throwing a pick when they had the cushion of up being up 14 points.

I guess that hypothetical can't be true. If the Giants didn't throw they win by 3 then.

 

[Orangeman]

Yep of course, I get it.

You could also say the Bills wouldn't have been in blitz-mode and given up a 53 yard scamper with LBs out of position etc etc if the game was tied instead of being down a TD.

I take your broader point, which is that the game is a narrative, not an episodic thing. For example, all the BS about the Bills being "undisciplined" is complete hogwash. And I hate the term "Bills COMMITTED 17 penalties"

NO.

They were FLAGGED for 17 penalties. Do the work...the Giants had 11 penalties for 85 yards...there was one 30 or so yard PI penalty on the Giants, the rest were all procedures that were must calls (like 3-4 Delay of Games, a bunch of illegal motions). Those are undisicplined penalties.

The Bills were flagged 17 times...4 of them were Personal Fouls at the end after the game was in doubt because of all the nonsense calls in the first place. The majority of the rest were discretionary calls by the officials, not procedural, against the Bills, that really altered the game (Offensive PI on Clay that Gronk does 34x a game, etc etc)

I agree with you, the game is a narrative and what happens along the way matters...which is why is wrong to say "the undisciplined Bills committed 17 penalties". No, the moronic referees who clearly had an agenda threw probably 14 discretionary penalties against the Bills to just a few vs. the Giants.

Need to look at that, the difference in discretionary penalties called. Like that utterly ridicuolous "personal foul" on the Bills against the Patriots last year when they were celebrating after a sack that even ESPN mocked in an article.

But your point is my major point: The NFL WANTS this narrative of "The Bills lost because they are undisciplined -- LOOK, they had 17 penalties" to carry the day.