2017 Recruiting a Year I'd like to forget

[Trueblue25]

Your comment is very misleading then. If he comes in and plays solid ball I don't think anybody will be shocked, I don't get the "don't sleep on him" comment. If we don't get Tucker or another SF then Brissett is going to play a ton of minutes and by default get a chance so I don't think it would be shocking for him to average double digits.

I think people discredit 3 star basketball prospects and even some 4 stars as "projects".

I think Brissett will be able to contribute his freshman year and will surprise some people. I think his ranking/star ranking completely devalues/underrates him.

I don't think he'll be Melo/Ennis/Mali. But I think he'll pleasantly surprise a lot of people with some early solid play.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I think people discredit 3 star basketball prospects and even some 4 stars as "projects".

I think Brissett will be able to contribute his freshman year and will surprise some people. I think his ranking/star ranking completely devalues/underrates him.

I don't think he'll be Melo/Ennis/Mali. But I think he'll pleasantly surprise a lot of people with some early solid play.

I think Brissett a great find. I think he has a great career here. The problem is we are really good arecruitjng power forwards, but can't seem to figure out any other position on the court right now. We are below average offensively and defensively at every position besides 2 guard and PF.

I have zero idea how this team scores in the half court against a packed paint unless someone has dramatically improved their shooting.

 

[JazzNC]

I don't think the "sky is falling" but I do think my post on page one brings up some points that are hard to ignore. I love Syracuse and have been a fan for 40+ years. Being upset when I see a decline is a sign that I care.

If you check my posts outside this and the Hughes thread you will see that in general they are upbeat. Why can I not voice concern without being censored?

 

[JLine]

I get the concerns, but I had to stop reading. OB, HW, Sidibe, and Moyer aren't some bums. They don't deserve to be lumped into a group of disappointment just because we didn't get Quade, and his friends. This class is great.

Next year we have two PGs, a lottery pick at the 2, and plenty at the 4/5. Yes, we need a true 3. Oshae may be that piece, but Tucker would be great if he wants to play here. We have plenty that want to play at SU.

Obviously we need to add two more pieces, and we will. Oh yeah, and everyone has given up on Frank. Got my popcorn ready when he's leading us. Junior PG, and fans have gave up on him. PC had one eye, and he's awful. No chance they improve. It's never happened before. We're doomed.

 

[JazzNC]

I get the concerns, but I had to stop reading. OB, HW, Sidibe, and Moyer aren't some bums. They don't deserve to be lumped into a group of disappointment just because we didn't get Quade, and his friends. This class is great.

If you reread my post, I did not state that OB, HW or BS were bums. I said they are 3 star recruits. I didnt state this class is or will be a disappointment. It's below our previous standards, and falls towards the bottom of the ACC classes as it's currently constructed. I hope and pray we add additional quality players. Furthermore, I hope my early impression is wrong.

 

[SC Orange]

If you reread my post, I did not state that OB, HW or BS were bums. I said they are 3 star recruits. I didnt state this class is or will be a disappointment. It's below our previous standards, and falls towards the bottom of the ACC classes as it's currently constructed. I hope and pray we add additional quality players. Furthermore, I hope my early impression is wrong.

OB is actually rated 4 stars at 2 4 7 but no where else and he should be rated where they have him.

 

[jordoo]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the 3 guys we have signed. They are all going to be good college players. I am pretty high on them and Moyer being a great backbone to the team in a couple season. I like them all.

That said this class has not addressed the immediate needs of the 2017/18 team which is very frustrating when you consider that they are the same as what the 2016/17 team needed and scrambled around late to try and fill. We do not have a D1 P5 ready to play PG. We do not have a pure SF on the roster. We have guys that may be able to fill those rolls at some point but we have two pretty big holes that we may or may not fill satisfactorily. That is what most peoples frustrations are IMO. Its not a reflection of the three recruits we have coming in at all. Its more questioning of if we have enough player ready for ACC level and knowing that right now it seems highly likely that at two positions we do not.

It doesn't mean its the end of the world. The staff did great scrambling late last season although that still didn't turn out how we'd hoped they did fill the holes. There is still opportunity to fill the spots we need. There is still returning players and their development. There is always the possibility of a freshman coming in and being much better right away than anyone expected. There is still the 2018 class and beyond. I don't like the late scramble and hope we move away from it before next season. I am fine with a couple if's but it seems like we have about 8 if's and 2 maybe's that need to go our way to be a good team.

 

[JazzNC]

OB is actually rated 4 stars at 2 4 7 but no where else and he should be rated where they have him.

I think you're right OB is rated 4 stars on that one site. I'm high on him, and said so in his thread yesterday.

 

[IthacaMatt]

It's one thing to say we didn't get the player we wanted but a totally foolish thing to say it was an awful year. Are these guys top 10, no, but they are quality players.

What, have we suddenly become Providence? Because that's who we are recruiting like.

 

[Briancuse]

I think people discredit 3 star basketball prospects and even some 4 stars as "projects".

I think Brissett will be able to contribute his freshman year and will surprise some people. I think his ranking/star ranking completely devalues/underrates him.

I don't think he'll be Melo/Ennis/Mali. But I think he'll pleasantly surprise a lot of people with some early solid play.

There is nothing wrong with 3 star kids, but you need 4 and 5 star guys too. Look at the rest of the Acc and the kids they are bringing in, we need to match that. When Fsu and Va Tech are bringing in 5 star kids and we aren't, that is a HUGE problem.

 

[Jasoncuse]

The concerns aren't about who we have coming in, as each of the 3 looks like they'll be good players here. Brissett may even become a star.

The concerns are over the inability to land a big fish and having TWO monster holes in the lineup as of right now. We don't have a starting caliber PG and no SF's on the roster. We also have 1 outside shooter that we can count on at this point. That's why people are questioning the recruiting and where this program is right now and will be for 2017-2018.

Still time, but the concerns are legit. If we can add Tucker and maybe a grad transfer shooter/guard, we'll be in much better shape for the season, but things aren't looking thaaaaat promising right now.

 

[JazzNC]

Let's put this out:

The following is a list compiled from 2 4 7. I used this site because I listed Oshae Brissett as 3 stars earlier in this thread and it was brought to my attention that this site lists him at 4 stars (it did not in the class rankings portion of their website). It is one of many recruiting sites which rank classes. I had to choose one for consistency. I did not include every school in the top 45, but tried to include a good portion of the ACC, some former Big East schools, and a non P5 school, all of which finished ahead of us. Here are my findings:

4) Duke - 5 star recruits (2), 4 star (1), 3 star (1) Class average: 95.33
7) Louisville - 5 star recruits (1), 4 star (3), 3 star (0) Class average: 95.71
8) Miami - 5 star recruits (1), 4 star (2), 3 star (1) Class average: 95.22
9) Xavier - 5 star recruits (0), 4 star (2), 3 star (3) Class average: 92.70
10) Western Kentucky - 5 star recruits (1), 4 star (2), 3 star (3) Class average: 92.70
14) Va Tech - 5 star recruits (0), 4 star (2), 3 star (1) Class average:94.99
15)North Carolina - 5 star recruits (0), 4 star (2), 3 star (3) Class average: 90.88
16) Providence - 5 star recruits (0), 4 star (2), 3 star (1) Class average: 94.92
20) Creighton - 5 star recruits (0), 4 star (3), 3 star (0) Class average: 95.12
24) Villanova - 5 star recruits (0), 4 star (2), 3 star (1) Class average: 93.77
25) Florida St - 5 star recruits (0), 4 star (1), 3 star (4) Class average: 90.53
39) Seton Hall - 5 star recruits (0), 4 star (1), 3 star (3) Class average: 89.95
41) Wake Forest - 5 star recruits (0), 4 star (1), 3 star (2) Class average: 85.95
44) Clemson - 5 star recruits (0), 4 star (1), 3 star (3) Class average: 90.22
*****62) Syracuse - 5 star recruits (0), 4 star (0), 3 star (3) Class average: 88.92

Granted the class is not complete, and we are awaiting Tucker's announcement... but this paints a REALLY ugly picture. I certainly hope we can pick it up, but it's been a LONG time since the likes of Creighton, Western Kentucky, Xavier, Virginia Tech, Seton Hall, Wake Forest, and Clemson out recruited us. It is certainly cause for concern.

 

[cuseinseattle]

Let's put it out there...

We offered all of these guys:

Quade Green -Kentucky
Hamidou Diallo -Kentucky/NBA
Nick Richards - Kentucky
Brandon Randolph - Arizona
Lonnie Walker - Miami
Mo Bamba - uncommitted but no signs of landing him
Ethan Thompson- Oregon St
Billy Preston - Kansas
Damir Cosbey Roundtree - Nova
Eric Ayala - not looking good
Jordan Tucker - not looking good
Oshae Brissett - Syracuse 3 star
Bourama Sidibe - Syracuse 3 star
H. Washington- Syracuse 3 star
Sidney Wilson - great looking player who might be being recruited but is redundant with Brissett and Moyer
(I'd still take him)

There are countless other guys who wanted offers from us that signed elsewhere because we put all our eggs in one basket.

Many of these kids above are NYers. We have finished in the middle of the pack in the ACC for a few years now. 2017's recruiting class is near the bottom of the ACC, as it stands now.

We are coming off an NIT season. JB is 72. We have recruiting sanctions. We are being negatively recruited against.

And now we are excited about getting a guy only ECU, Seton Hall and Iona wants? The title of this thread (as of this writing) is very accurate.

Brissett is a 4 star and Moyer and Brissett play the 4. Sid is a straight 3. Brissett can play some 3 but they are far from redundant.

 

[cuseinseattle]

That never happened. Kris Joseph was years before those guys. If you mean Kaleb Joseph, that was a different class too. He came in with McCullough. Tyler Roberson was the other recruit with Johnson and Patterson. Our sanctions screwed that class up, because Johnson would've become a fine player here if he could've stayed.

This won't be one of our higher ranked classes, but I don't feel like it's like the Greg Davis/James Thues class either.

Thanks for posting this I was thinking the same thing. Did he mean Kaleb and that is still wrong.

 

[cuseinseattle]

Your comment is very misleading then. If he comes in and plays solid ball I don't think anybody will be shocked, I don't get the "don't sleep on him" comment. If we don't get Tucker or another SF then Brissett is going to play a ton of minutes and by default get a chance so I don't think it would be shocking for him to average double digits.

Brissett is going to play a ton next year no matter how you slice it. He is more advanced than Moyer in my opinion so he will play the 4 and some 3 even with Tucker. I think he will come in and contribute in a solid and positive way.

 

[JazzNC]

Brissett is a 4 star and Moyer and Brissett play the 4. Sid is a straight 3. Brissett can play some 3 but they are far from redundant.

Brisset is not listed as a four star recruit on the class ranking section of 2 4 7. If it is speculation or pessimistic to say any of our recruits are not up to our standards, I think it is also speculation to say any of the three 3 will exceed their ranking. I like Oshae's game and have consistently said so. I also like Sid, but am concerned that his game is very similar to that of Moyer and Oshae. I would definitely still take Sid if he chooses SU, and wrote that above too. Only time will tell how this all pans out.

 

[realorange]

Brissett is going to play a ton next year no matter how you slice it. He is more advanced than Moyer in my opinion so he will play the 4 and some 3 even with Tucker. I think he will come in and contribute in a solid and positive way.

How can you say he is more advanced than Moyer when you haven't seen Moyer play in a year. Plus, Moyer has the advantage of becoming familiar with the zone, no small item in earning playing time from JB.

 

[JazzNC]

I just want to reiterate that I chose 2 4 7 for rankings because it was pointed out to me that OB was listed as 4 stars there. I was trying to pick the site that would give the SU recruits the best rankings. 2 4 7 does list him at 4 star but their composite rankings do not. For consistency I had to keep OB at 3 stars or else I would be cherry picking. When conducting research one cannot selectively pick the results that he/she wants to see to support their case, and be objective at the same time.

 

[Day2]

Brissett is a 4-star on at least three recruiting sites (ESPN, Rivals, 24/7) and if he played in the US he would be a top 50 prospect.

 

[JazzNC]

Brissett is a 4-star on at least three recruiting sites (ESPN, Rivals, 24/7) and if he played in the US he would be a top 50 prospect.

As stated earlier, I chose 2 4 7 for rankings because it was pointed out to me that OB was listed as 4 stars there. As it turned out, the class rankings are done with the composite.

For consistency I had to keep OB at 3 stars or else I would be cherry picking. When conducting research one cannot selectively pick the results that he/she wants to see to support their case, and be objective at the same time.

I could post something similar using a different site, but I suspect the outcome would look similar since 2 4 7 uses an average.

I agree that OB may very well prove to be a top 50 recruit, but I can't skew the numbers in our favor without doing the same for other schools.

 

[JazzNC]

Here is an article put out TODAY which illustrates my point. It didn't matter which site I chose, we are not in the top 50:

UPDATED: USA TODAY Sports' 2017 Composite Team Basketball Recruiting Rankings

 

[Sherman20]

I get the concerns, but I had to stop reading. OB, HW, Sidibe, and Moyer aren't some bums. They don't deserve to be lumped into a group of disappointment just because we didn't get Quade, and his friends. This class is great.

Next year we have two PGs, a lottery pick at the 2, and plenty at the 4/5. Yes, we need a true 3. Oshae may be that piece, but Tucker would be great if he wants to play here. We have plenty that want to play at SU.

Obviously we need to add two more pieces, and we will. Oh yeah, and everyone has given up on Frank. Got my popcorn ready when he's leading us. Junior PG, and fans have gave up on him. PC had one eye, and he's awful. No chance they improve. It's never happened before. We're doomed.

I've been a little bit surprised at the absolute antipathy and hostility towards Howard on this board. While I get some of it and I have some doubts as well, how can you ignore what Boeheim says about Howard, both on camera and off? (do we not trust his opinion and player analysis anymore?)

1.) When JB decided to abandon the PG platoon system and go with Gillon full time, he said Gillon was playing "a little better--"just a little better" than Howard at the time. He went with one guy because he thought we needed consistency at the PG spot. He obviously chose Gillon because he was shooting the ball better from 3 and was a near 90 percent free throw shooter and was getting into the lane a little better. (He acknowledged that Frank was prob the better defender.) But he didn't see a HUGE difference between them. Now Howard will be a junior with a year of off season work and experience. How can we not expect improvement?

2.) In February when Battle was sick and Howard got more playing time and looked decent, several announcers mentioned during the broadcasts how JB told them Howard will be fine next year. He's only a sophomore and these things take time, he said. (I always listen to the announcers because they often share stuff JB says to them, and he's sometimes more honest and open when he's not at a podium).

3.) In JB's end of season presser, he went to great lengths to defend Frank and admonished everyone for not having faith that players can improve. He cited Scoop as an example of a player who everyone had the pitchforks out for before he had a great sophomore-senior run where he improved every year. He seems to think Howard can make similar leaps.

4.) In November and December, Jay Bilas commented several times in games how Howard was playing very well against the lesser teams on the schedule and struggling against better competition. He argued that it's just a matter of adjusting to the competition, and he seemed to believe Howard has the athletic ability and skills to be able to adjust. It's a mental thing and a lack of experience. Hopefully another year of off season work and playing with the other guys and knowing that he's our PG will help his confidence. There's something to be said for knowing a team needs you and you have to produce. It can lead to a player stepping up and Improving.

Look, would I like to have a backup plan like Ayala or a 5th year grad transfer in case Howard proves to be unable to meet the challenge? Yes. But unless something happens and we sign a 5th year, JB seems comfortable with Howard running the show next year. Of course you can express concerns or acknowledge it's an unknown, but we should try to get behind it and support Howard.

 

[rrlbees]

Here is an article put out TODAY which illustrates my point. It didn't matter which site I chose, we are not in the top 50:

UPDATED: USA TODAY Sports' 2017 Composite Team Basketball Recruiting Rankings

It's a month ago not today. I wonder if it includes Washington. Also, when you have a Canadian player it gets goofy with the rankings. One site has brissett as a 4 star but doesn't rank him because he's in Canada. Also look at how USA Today did that ranking. If you appear in any site ranking you appear in theirs. One school could be in one sites ranking but still behind us in the others.

 

[JazzNC]

It's a month ago not today. I wonder if it includes Washington. Also, when you have a Canadian player it gets goofy with the rankings. One site has brissett as a 4 star but doesn't rank him because he's in Canada. Also look at how USA Today did that ranking. If you appear in any site ranking you appear in theirs. One school could be in one sites ranking but still behind us in the others.

My bad about the date... I saw the 6th, and thought it was today.

 

[Day2]

As stated earlier, I chose 2 4 7 for rankings because it was pointed out to me that OB was listed as 4 stars there. As it turned out, the class rankings are done with the composite.

For consistency I had to keep OB at 3 stars or else I would be cherry picking. When conducting research one cannot selectively pick the results that he/she wants to see to support their case, and be objective at the same time.

I could post something similar using a different site, but I suspect the outcome would look similar since 2 4 7 uses an average.

I agree that OB may very well prove to be a top 50 recruit, but I can't skew the numbers in our favor without doing the same for other schools.

First of all, you don't need to copy and paste the same argument over and over again. We all read it the first time. If you don't have a counter argument, it's not necessary to repeat yourself.

Second, in a way you are cherry picking, I guess because you don't want to update your chart. Bottom line, the top three recruiting sites say OB is a 4-star prospect. I don't know anyone who uses the composite rankings on 24/7 as the gospel. Some of the rankings they include are probably outdated, if not uninformed. (Remember, we're talking about a Canadian player here.) Usually the ESPN rankings are cited by other publications. He's clearly a 4-star according to them.