2020 Pre-Spring 2-Deep

[Newhouse_83]

Are you saying 10 WRs is too many?

In the event you're seriously asking, 10 scholarship wideouts is dumb -- especially when we have *maybe* six cornerbacks if we count a converted safety or two.

The wideout glut concerns me for multiple reasons: Impact on another speed/skill position -- corner
-- and the logjam it creates that could well mean that a talented recruit doesn't see the field for a while.

1) We're one injury from having to replace a very good starting CB from a pool of four freshmen and a former safety. None has played a college down at corner, and we give up serious size if we elevate a current second-stringer -- five inches and 40 pounds if we replace Melifonwu with Cole. Remember the mismatches we saw in previous years when Cordy had to cover a normal-sized WR? Guy played his butt off, but he wasn't winning any jump balls. We're also thin at LB because Jones, Wallace and Trotter, who were recruited to play in the previous system, don't seem to have the size to be starters in this one (that said, Jones has something to offer somewhere, and Wallace can still contribute on specials).

2) A significant part of this argument is pretty basic, but important: a scholarship at one position is a schollly that can't be used elsewhere. If you're giving one to your ninth or 10th wideout, you're short elsewhere at the same time you're keeping a guy off the field.

Real-life example: Justin Barron, the third ranked WR in SU's 2020 class. Even if you rank him ahead of Thompson-Bishop and Sharod-Johnson, his best-case scenario this year is WR9. Of the eight guys ahead of him, ONE is a senior. So unless he blows up, he enters year 2 as WR8. His main attribute is size -- but he's not quite as big, or as highly ranked, as a classmate: Alford. Even in two years, he's still behind Hendrix, Queeley, Jackson, Alford, Je'Vante Williams and whichever Jackson or Etta-Tawo type who transfers in.

Last year, SU had FOUR WRs catch more then three passes. WR 10 wasn't targeted. Nor were WRs 8 and 9.

Meanwhile ...

Barron's already near the size of a prototype OLB in SU's new system -- he's Linton minus 5 pounds, and he's bigger than Trotter, who's listed as a second-teamer but who at 6'2", 206, seems unlikely to earn much (any?) playing time other than on specials. Barron's tape shows solid play at OLB, particularly as a pass defender -- this isn't "hey, kid, wanna learn a new position?" Give him a year to add a little bulk and learn the schemes, the let him battle Linton and Trotter at SLB. At worst, I'd bet, he's a second-teamer in his R-Fr year.

If you remember Coach Mac, you'll also remember that he'd enter spring or open fall camp with a jumble-y two-deep, but by the week of the opener, he'd have moved chess pieces around and gotten his 22 best guys on the field. Coach P continued that approach, so that when he had McIntosh, Brown and Konrad at RB, he didn't say "the best use of Tebucky Jones's talent is to have another 60 carry, 225-yard season." He moved him to defense and let him make plays.

And, honestly, if you have some strange fetish about having a scholarship player at WR-10, it makes far more sense to slide Jacobian Morgan, who played some WR in high school, over and let Gunter be QB-5.

Finally, there's the basic math. If you only have 85 scholarships, why devote 10 of them to any one position, especially one that hasn't historically had a ton of injuries?

 

[AngryOtto]

In the event you're seriously asking, 10 scholarship wideouts is dumb -- especially when we have *maybe* six cornerbacks if we count a converted safety or two.

The wideout glut concerns me for multiple reasons: Impact on another speed/skill position -- corner
-- and the logjam it creates that could well mean that a talented recruit doesn't see the field for a while.

1) We're one injury from having to replace a very good starting CB from a pool of four freshmen and a former safety. None has played a college down at corner, and we give up serious size if we elevate a current second-stringer -- five inches and 40 pounds if we replace Melifonwu with Cole. Remember the mismatches we saw in previous years when Cordy had to cover a normal-sized WR? Guy played his butt off, but he wasn't winning any jump balls. We're also thin at LB because Jones, Wallace and Trotter, who were recruited to play in the previous system, don't seem to have the size to be starters in this one (that said, Jones has something to offer somewhere, and Wallace can still contribute on specials).

2) A significant part of this argument is pretty basic, but important: a scholarship at one position is a schollly that can't be used elsewhere. If you're giving one to your ninth or 10th wideout, you're short elsewhere at the same time you're keeping a guy off the field.

Real-life example: Justin Barron, the third ranked WR in SU's 2020 class. Even if you rank him ahead of Thompson-Bishop and Sharod-Johnson, his best-case scenario this year is WR9. Of the eight guys ahead of him, ONE is a senior. So unless he blows up, he enters year 2 as WR8. His main attribute is size -- but he's not quite as big, or as highly ranked, as a classmate: Alford. Even in two years, he's still behind Hendrix, Queeley, Jackson, Alford, Je'Vante Williams and whichever Jackson or Etta-Tawo type who transfers in.

Last year, SU had FOUR WRs catch more then three passes. WR 10 wasn't targeted. Nor were WRs 8 and 9.

Meanwhile ...

Barron's already near the size of a prototype OLB in SU's new system -- he's Linton minus 5 pounds, and he's bigger than Trotter, who's listed as a second-teamer but who at 6'2", 206, seems unlikely to earn much (any?) playing time other than on specials. Barron's tape shows solid play at OLB, particularly as a pass defender -- this isn't "hey, kid, wanna learn a new position?" Give him a year to add a little bulk and learn the schemes, the let him battle Linton and Trotter at SLB. At worst, I'd bet, he's a second-teamer in his R-Fr year.

If you remember Coach Mac, you'll also remember that he'd enter spring or open fall camp with a jumble-y two-deep, but by the week of the opener, he'd have moved chess pieces around and gotten his 22 best guys on the field. Coach P continued that approach, so that when he had McIntosh, Brown and Konrad at RB, he didn't say "the best use of Tebucky Jones's talent is to have another 60 carry, 225-yard season." He moved him to defense and let him make plays.

And, honestly, if you have some strange fetish about having a scholarship player at WR-10, it makes far more sense to slide Jacobian Morgan, who played some WR in high school, over and let Gunter be QB-5.

Finally, there's the basic math. If you only have 85 scholarships, why devote 10 of them to any one position, especially one that hasn't historically had a ton of injuries?

10 wr does seem like a lot but I have a feeling that we may see a couple of guys transfer. Concerning targeting only four wr that was a chief complaint of fans on this board. We are all hoping we spread the ball out more this year.
Wallace is 6’2 230 and trotter was 6’3 223. Both have time to add weight. I am a little concerned about Jones’s size in the new system. But he may be able to be moved into the new safety position. He is very athletic and could possibly fill that role.
I feel this coaches will move the players in the positions they feel they will be successful. You have already seen that with linton and Richards.

 

[sufandu]

In the event you're seriously asking, 10 scholarship wideouts is dumb -- especially when we have *maybe* six cornerbacks if we count a converted safety or two.

The wideout glut concerns me for multiple reasons: Impact on another speed/skill position -- corner
-- and the logjam it creates that could well mean that a talented recruit doesn't see the field for a while.

1) We're one injury from having to replace a very good starting CB from a pool of four freshmen and a former safety. None has played a college down at corner, and we give up serious size if we elevate a current second-stringer -- five inches and 40 pounds if we replace Melifonwu with Cole. Remember the mismatches we saw in previous years when Cordy had to cover a normal-sized WR? Guy played his butt off, but he wasn't winning any jump balls. We're also thin at LB because Jones, Wallace and Trotter, who were recruited to play in the previous system, don't seem to have the size to be starters in this one (that said, Jones has something to offer somewhere, and Wallace can still contribute on specials).

2) A significant part of this argument is pretty basic, but important: a scholarship at one position is a schollly that can't be used elsewhere. If you're giving one to your ninth or 10th wideout, you're short elsewhere at the same time you're keeping a guy off the field.

Real-life example: Justin Barron, the third ranked WR in SU's 2020 class. Even if you rank him ahead of Thompson-Bishop and Sharod-Johnson, his best-case scenario this year is WR9. Of the eight guys ahead of him, ONE is a senior. So unless he blows up, he enters year 2 as WR8. His main attribute is size -- but he's not quite as big, or as highly ranked, as a classmate: Alford. Even in two years, he's still behind Hendrix, Queeley, Jackson, Alford, Je'Vante Williams and whichever Jackson or Etta-Tawo type who transfers in.

Last year, SU had FOUR WRs catch more then three passes. WR 10 wasn't targeted. Nor were WRs 8 and 9.

Meanwhile ...

Barron's already near the size of a prototype OLB in SU's new system -- he's Linton minus 5 pounds, and he's bigger than Trotter, who's listed as a second-teamer but who at 6'2", 206, seems unlikely to earn much (any?) playing time other than on specials. Barron's tape shows solid play at OLB, particularly as a pass defender -- this isn't "hey, kid, wanna learn a new position?" Give him a year to add a little bulk and learn the schemes, the let him battle Linton and Trotter at SLB. At worst, I'd bet, he's a second-teamer in his R-Fr year.

If you remember Coach Mac, you'll also remember that he'd enter spring or open fall camp with a jumble-y two-deep, but by the week of the opener, he'd have moved chess pieces around and gotten his 22 best guys on the field. Coach P continued that approach, so that when he had McIntosh, Brown and Konrad at RB, he didn't say "the best use of Tebucky Jones's talent is to have another 60 carry, 225-yard season." He moved him to defense and let him make plays.

And, honestly, if you have some strange fetish about having a scholarship player at WR-10, it makes far more sense to slide Jacobian Morgan, who played some WR in high school, over and let Gunter be QB-5.

Finally, there's the basic math. If you only have 85 scholarships, why devote 10 of them to any one position, especially one that hasn't historically had a ton of injuries?

If we're being accurate, I remember it was Tebucky Jones who approached P about the move to defense. Had it been P's idea, I think he would have done it before TJ's senior year.

Yes, I realize that's a tangent. Your overall point of roster balance is a good one, and one that many people share.

 

[CuseLegacy]

Did any of the schools get most or all their Spring practices in?

Yes. Duke did. They always start their Spring Practice early, this year February 6. Other schools never got started like UNC and VT.

 

[CuseOnly]

In the event you're seriously asking, 10 scholarship wideouts is dumb -- especially when we have *maybe* six cornerbacks if we count a converted safety or two.

The wideout glut concerns me for multiple reasons: Impact on another speed/skill position -- corner
-- and the logjam it creates that could well mean that a talented recruit doesn't see the field for a while.

1) We're one injury from having to replace a very good starting CB from a pool of four freshmen and a former safety. None has played a college down at corner, and we give up serious size if we elevate a current second-stringer -- five inches and 40 pounds if we replace Melifonwu with Cole. Remember the mismatches we saw in previous years when Cordy had to cover a normal-sized WR? Guy played his butt off, but he wasn't winning any jump balls. We're also thin at LB because Jones, Wallace and Trotter, who were recruited to play in the previous system, don't seem to have the size to be starters in this one (that said, Jones has something to offer somewhere, and Wallace can still contribute on specials).

2) A significant part of this argument is pretty basic, but important: a scholarship at one position is a schollly that can't be used elsewhere. If you're giving one to your ninth or 10th wideout, you're short elsewhere at the same time you're keeping a guy off the field.

Real-life example: Justin Barron, the third ranked WR in SU's 2020 class. Even if you rank him ahead of Thompson-Bishop and Sharod-Johnson, his best-case scenario this year is WR9. Of the eight guys ahead of him, ONE is a senior. So unless he blows up, he enters year 2 as WR8. His main attribute is size -- but he's not quite as big, or as highly ranked, as a classmate: Alford. Even in two years, he's still behind Hendrix, Queeley, Jackson, Alford, Je'Vante Williams and whichever Jackson or Etta-Tawo type who transfers in.

Last year, SU had FOUR WRs catch more then three passes. WR 10 wasn't targeted. Nor were WRs 8 and 9.

Meanwhile ...

Barron's already near the size of a prototype OLB in SU's new system -- he's Linton minus 5 pounds, and he's bigger than Trotter, who's listed as a second-teamer but who at 6'2", 206, seems unlikely to earn much (any?) playing time other than on specials. Barron's tape shows solid play at OLB, particularly as a pass defender -- this isn't "hey, kid, wanna learn a new position?" Give him a year to add a little bulk and learn the schemes, the let him battle Linton and Trotter at SLB. At worst, I'd bet, he's a second-teamer in his R-Fr year.

If you remember Coach Mac, you'll also remember that he'd enter spring or open fall camp with a jumble-y two-deep, but by the week of the opener, he'd have moved chess pieces around and gotten his 22 best guys on the field. Coach P continued that approach, so that when he had McIntosh, Brown and Konrad at RB, he didn't say "the best use of Tebucky Jones's talent is to have another 60 carry, 225-yard season." He moved him to defense and let him make plays.

And, honestly, if you have some strange fetish about having a scholarship player at WR-10, it makes far more sense to slide Jacobian Morgan, who played some WR in high school, over and let Gunter be QB-5.

Finally, there's the basic math. If you only have 85 scholarships, why devote 10 of them to any one position, especially one that hasn't historically had a ton of injuries?

There are technically only 2 Corner spots and our offense uses typically between 3 and 5 receivers.

The numbers are warranted.

 

[PhatOrange]

In the event you're seriously asking, 10 scholarship wideouts is dumb -- especially when we have *maybe* six cornerbacks if we count a converted safety or two.

The wideout glut concerns me for multiple reasons: Impact on another speed/skill position -- corner
-- and the logjam it creates that could well mean that a talented recruit doesn't see the field for a while.

1) We're one injury from having to replace a very good starting CB from a pool of four freshmen and a former safety. None has played a college down at corner, and we give up serious size if we elevate a current second-stringer -- five inches and 40 pounds if we replace Melifonwu with Cole. Remember the mismatches we saw in previous years when Cordy had to cover a normal-sized WR? Guy played his butt off, but he wasn't winning any jump balls. We're also thin at LB because Jones, Wallace and Trotter, who were recruited to play in the previous system, don't seem to have the size to be starters in this one (that said, Jones has something to offer somewhere, and Wallace can still contribute on specials).

2) A significant part of this argument is pretty basic, but important: a scholarship at one position is a schollly that can't be used elsewhere. If you're giving one to your ninth or 10th wideout, you're short elsewhere at the same time you're keeping a guy off the field.

Real-life example: Justin Barron, the third ranked WR in SU's 2020 class. Even if you rank him ahead of Thompson-Bishop and Sharod-Johnson, his best-case scenario this year is WR9. Of the eight guys ahead of him, ONE is a senior. So unless he blows up, he enters year 2 as WR8. His main attribute is size -- but he's not quite as big, or as highly ranked, as a classmate: Alford. Even in two years, he's still behind Hendrix, Queeley, Jackson, Alford, Je'Vante Williams and whichever Jackson or Etta-Tawo type who transfers in.

Last year, SU had FOUR WRs catch more then three passes. WR 10 wasn't targeted. Nor were WRs 8 and 9.

Meanwhile ...

Barron's already near the size of a prototype OLB in SU's new system -- he's Linton minus 5 pounds, and he's bigger than Trotter, who's listed as a second-teamer but who at 6'2", 206, seems unlikely to earn much (any?) playing time other than on specials. Barron's tape shows solid play at OLB, particularly as a pass defender -- this isn't "hey, kid, wanna learn a new position?" Give him a year to add a little bulk and learn the schemes, the let him battle Linton and Trotter at SLB. At worst, I'd bet, he's a second-teamer in his R-Fr year.

If you remember Coach Mac, you'll also remember that he'd enter spring or open fall camp with a jumble-y two-deep, but by the week of the opener, he'd have moved chess pieces around and gotten his 22 best guys on the field. Coach P continued that approach, so that when he had McIntosh, Brown and Konrad at RB, he didn't say "the best use of Tebucky Jones's talent is to have another 60 carry, 225-yard season." He moved him to defense and let him make plays.

And, honestly, if you have some strange fetish about having a scholarship player at WR-10, it makes far more sense to slide Jacobian Morgan, who played some WR in high school, over and let Gunter be QB-5.

Finally, there's the basic math. If you only have 85 scholarships, why devote 10 of them to any one position, especially one that hasn't historically had a ton of injuries?

It’s not. The Babers rosters and the Baylor rosters and these spread teams regulary carry 15 WRs. 2 inside and 2 outside guys going 3 and 4 deep is btw 12-16.

 

[OmahaCuse]

10 WRs may seem illogical but so would be running the option ala Gtech these days. It’s worked well for Baylor and other high octane offenses

 

[CuseOnly]

10 WRs may seem illogical but so would be running the option ala Gtech these days. It’s worked well for Baylor and other high octane offenses

We run the option, just not the triple option. In our offense it also has a passing element.

And 10 WR's is not in any way illogical when your base offense is a 4 WR set or 3 WR's and a tight end.

 

[orangepassion]

We run the option, just not the triple option. In our offense it also has a passing element.

And 10 WR's is not in any way illogical when your base offense is a 4 WR set or 3 WR's and a tight end.

I'd rather have a couple more DB's, as we have very little depth at CB and will now playing be playing 5 regularly. We only play 2-3 WR's regularly.

 

[721Comstock]

I'd rather have a couple more DB's, as we have very little depth at CB and will now playing be playing 5 regularly. We only play 2-3 WR's regularly.

Are you a closet BC or Pitt fan??

 

[orangepassion]

I should say we usually only have 2 or 3 on the field at a time, but how many receivers played regularly or even semi-regularly last year. All I can think of is 4-Jackson, Harris, Riley, and Ny Johnson. Rarely, if ever saw Jordan (a little later in the year), Thompson-Bishop, Sharod Jackson, Lutz, Courtney Jackson, Queeley, or Mital.

Are you a closet BC or Pitt fan??

 

[PhatOrange]

I should say we usually only have 2 or 3 on the field at a time, but how many receivers played regularly or even semi-regularly last year. All I can think of is 4-Jackson, Harris, Riley, and Ny Johnson. Rarely, if ever saw Jordan (a little later in the year), Thompson-Bishop, Sharod Jackson, Lutz, Courtney Jackson, Queeley, or Mital.

by the same logic how many cbs regularly played ?

 

[sufandu]

by the same logic how many cbs regularly played ?

Without looking at numbers, because I don't want to take the time, I think there was a greater need cbs last year due to injuries. I suppose that may not always be the case, however.

 

[PhatOrange]

Without looking at numbers, because I don't want to take the time, I think there was a greater need cbs last year due to injuries. I suppose that may not always be the case, however.

3 CB's got all the minutes and they moved Cordy around a bit.

There's 11 scholarship DBs on the roster (with 5 slated for cornerback) and there's 3 more DBs entering the mix this summer (Hanna, Atkinson, Carter) with 2 more (LaBrosse/Barron) could potentially be moved around. At a minimum there are going to be 14 defensive backs.

Corners:
Trill Williams
Adrian Cole
Devon Clarke
Ifeatu Melifonwu
Garrett Williams

Nickle
Eric Coley
Allen Stritzinger

Safeties
Andre Cisco
Cam Jonas
Neil Nunn
Aman Greenwood

Enrolling:
Robert Hanna
Chase Atkinson
Jahad Carter
Ben LaBrosse

 

[orangepassion]

Don't think you can count on incoming Freshmen to contribute immediately, particularly with everything going on now. Can't say I'm optimistic about Clarke at CB, considering people thought he might be too slow at Safety.

We're going to have 5 DB's on the field almost every play, so there's a greater chance of injuries there and greater need for depth. Would love to see if RTB and/or Lutz would consider switching to the other side of the ball, as it doesn't seem too likely they touch the field on O.

3 CB's got all the minutes and they moved Cordy around a bit.

There's 11 scholarship DBs on the roster (with 5 slated for cornerback) and there's 3 more DBs entering the mix this summer (Hanna, Atkinson, Carter) with 2 more (LaBrosse/Barron) could potentially be moved around. At a minimum there are going to be 14 defensive backs.

Corners:
Trill Williams
Adrian Cole
Devon Clarke
Ifeatu Melifonwu
Garrett Williams

Nickle
Eric Coley
Allen Stritzinger

Safeties
Andre Cisco
Cam Jonas
Neil Nunn
Aman Greenwood

Enrolling:
Robert Hanna
Chase Atkinson
Jahad Carter
Ben LaBrosse

 

[PhatOrange]

Don't think you can count on incoming Freshmen to contribute immediately, particularly with everything going on now. Can't say I'm optimistic about Clarke at CB, considering people thought he might be too slow at Safety.

We're going to have 5 DB's on the field almost every play, so there's a greater chance of injuries there and greater need for depth. Would love to see if RTB and/or Lutz would consider switching to the other side of the ball, as it doesn't seem too likely they touch the field on O.

We've pretty much played 5 DBs on the field every game for the past few years.

Clarke is a backup and probably not the first guy who'd go in the game or be moved. Stritz, Nunn and Greenwood can play corner.

Freshman can and do get on the field at DB/Safety. We've been doing it the last few years and the Carter kid I'm wagering gets on the field this year.

You're moving kids to defensive back who you've never even seen practice. They're not going to touch the field on defense either.

What people are forgetting when they're moving guys around and saying 10 WRS are too many is practice. Babers likes 4 full teams so they can put in full units and rep over and over and over. You can't practice with 10 WRs let alone less than that.

Now that we're installing a new defense that will likely be the defense from here on out with HCDB, we'll have to recruit differently and re-adjust the positions/numbers.