2020 Transfer Thread

[Faegan]

2020 Attack Stats with some notes... different schedules . Expect Duke attack production to rise significantly in 2021.

Duke will certainly be loaded at attack... will be interesting to see what kind of chemistry they can put together in less than a year. Our Midfield and their Attack will be a huge focus for pre-season media.

 

[t4rip]

The x factor of team chemistry aside, is there a player in the portal than can move this unit up from 3rd or 4th to 1 or 2?

 

[JeremyCuse]

The x factor of team chemistry aside, is there a player in the portal than can move this unit up from 3rd or 4th to 1 or 2?

Yes, however, the question becomes what about the roster size and promises that were made regarding playing time. The problem is that SU is already 4 deep at attack when you include Hiltz, are you going to sit Rehfuss who is essentially a 3 year starter at attack or Cook who the staff loves? Then you bring Hiltz into the equation as a guy the staff feels could challenge for PT from day one. SU simply doesn't have the room to add an attackmen outside of a guy like Sowers. Rehfuss coming back essentially ended any chance.

 

[t4rip]

I don't disagree, its a tough situation, but #4 in that conference? I'm of the mind to say there's always room for improvement. Whether its from the starters or the portal, have to get better.

 

[DoctahLexus]

Yes, however, the question becomes what about the roster size and promises that were made regarding playing time. The problem is that SU is already 4 deep at attack when you include Hiltz, are you going to sit Rehfuss who is essentially a 3 year starter at attack or Cook who the staff loves? Then you bring Hiltz into the equation as a guy the staff feels could challenge for PT from day one. SU simply doesn't have the room to add an attackmen outside of a guy like Sowers. Rehfuss coming back essentially ended any chance.

Is Morill that player? Not sure anyone else would come close to accomplishing that. Unless you count Teat if Cornell doesn't allow 5th years. I don't think Bertrand or Holden are quite that valuable.

 

[Shrmdougluvr]

Yes, however, the question becomes what about the roster size and promises that were made regarding playing time. The problem is that SU is already 4 deep at attack when you include Hiltz, are you going to sit Rehfuss who is essentially a 3 year starter at attack or Cook who the staff loves? Then you bring Hiltz into the equation as a guy the staff feels could challenge for PT from day one. SU simply doesn't have the room to add an attackmen outside of a guy like Sowers. Rehfuss coming back essentially ended any chance.

Of course they could add someone. Just depends how cold blooded the staff wants to be. Sowers was the ultimate fit because of his dodging ability, which is something our attack lacks. It definitely doesnt seem worth just replicating what we already have, which may be what you are implying.

 

[PhatOrange]

I don't think we need to add any transfers. You'd really only consider it for a lock down defender. There are no other holes.

 

[Powellfan]

Is Morill that player? Not sure anyone else would come close to accomplishing that. Unless you count Teat if Cornell doesn't allow 5th years. I don't think Bertrand or Holden are quite that valuable.

I think Morrill is certainly that player, but it really seems unlikely he would end up here. He has no natural connections to the school, isn't from the area, and has two strong connections to other schools (JHU and Georgetown). It would take a pretty big push from Desko and staff to somehow convince him. Sowers made sense because of the March connection at least, I just don't see it here.

Would Bertrand or Holden make the SU attack better than say UNC? Probably not, but I can't help but think they'd make the team better. What the SU attack really lacks is a strong dodger, Rhefuss is a good passer and distributor but gets shut down but good defenders. Scanlan is an excellent finisher who can dodge but its not his primary skill.

Cook, to me, is a guy who can both dodge and pass, but isn't excellent at either. He is terrific on the ride which is his greatest talent. But he can disappear for long stretches and most games I forget he is on the field. Hiltz obviously comes in with a lot of hype, its just hard to think about how well he'll fit into the offense when there is very little tape of him available.

Bertrand and Holden aren't sure things like Morrill and Sowers obviously. Bertrand played DII for three years, but on tape he looks very aggressive and has great size. Only issue he's a lefty, along with Rhefuss and Hiltz. Holden looked like an All American against SU but I beleive he is a very high quantity shooter and don't know how that would play at SU with so many guys looking for the ball. Plus, no offense to Hobart but SU's schedule would be a big step up. It's interesting that apparently lots of teams are looking at him to play midfield.

I keep wondering what would happen if I saw a tweet saying "Eric Holden transferring to Syracuse", and I keep feeling like that would be the right move for SU. I could be totally wrong, but I can't help but think they need an upgrade at that third attack spot next to Rhefuss and Scanlan. Maybe it's Hiltz, maybe Cook is worth riding with, but with other teams stocking up I can't help but feel like SU will be left behind and we'll be wondering next May, "what if?".

 

[sholokov2]

Of course they could add someone. Just depends how cold blooded the staff wants to be. Sowers was the ultimate fit because of his dodging ability, which is something our attack lacks. It definitely doesnt seem worth just replicating what we already have, which may be what you are implying.

i understand the concerns about adding a good player to what seems to be a set lineup to which the coaches may have committed themselves. Let's imagine these contexts. A freshman recruit outplays Rehfuss or Cook, proves he should be starting. Does he sit because of team chemistry or hurt feelings? A junior improves so much he earns a starting spot at attack. Does he sit? No one is a lock to start at any position regardless of circumstances unless he earns that position in competition. Players who return for their fifth year are not guaranteed to start or play. No matter how delicate team cohesion, it should never be based on the status in a hierarchy unconnected to competitive excellence. When you come back for your fifth year, you must expect to win the job all over again.

I can think of several ways to use an excellent offensive player should he show he belongs. Out of the box, he can replace for one offensive cycle, any of the six offensive players regardless of position. Morrilll, depending on the situation, could play any location on the field, wing, x, midfield, and sub for any of the starting lineup regularly out of the box. Yes, he would take time away from another good player, but if he can help the team win, players would not resent him, they would support him. As I have said before, I believe coaches should go after anyone who can help the team, particularly given the unusual health circumstances.

 

[Faegan]

Yes, however, the question becomes what about the roster size and promises that were made regarding playing time. The problem is that SU is already 4 deep at attack when you include Hiltz, are you going to sit Rehfuss who is essentially a 3 year starter at attack or Cook who the staff loves? Then you bring Hiltz into the equation as a guy the staff feels could challenge for PT from day one. SU simply doesn't have the room to add an attackmen outside of a guy like Sowers. Rehfuss coming back essentially ended any chance.

I completely agree with this. Bringing in a senior attackman from the portal at this point would be counter productive outside of Sowers who is a proven generational talent and frankly a magician - we have a good unit that performed well this year and Hiltz is already coming. And that's coming from a fan/coach that goes against the grain and believes more attackmen should be used strategically to confuse defenses and play to strengths. Our attack production last year also has to be viewed in the context of having such a formidable midfield.

 

[Gone]

It's very frustrating that Duke is able to go for "free agents" at a time when we have such a strong team. It's a bit like a Yankees/Red Sox situation with short-term and long term trade-offs. For what it's worth, I think the only ways Cuse can add an attackman are the following:

1) a stud - calibre of Morrill, Teat would justify the disruption same as Sowers
2) Bertrand, Yorke, Holden? - coaches would have to feel strongly that they are "sure things"

In the case of 1), coaches would need to give Cook and Hiltz playing time with the clear message to them that they will be full starters after one-year rental. Could they be rotated in much like a 2nd midfield? In the case of 2), the transfer would have to prove they are better than Hiltz or Cook in Fall ball.

As JeremyCuse says, the coaches may feel their hands are tied by promises made. Team chemistry is hard to measure and we may be underestimating the growth potential of Scanlan, Cook, Hiltz etc. There is clearly a risk that Hiltz or Cook will not react well and will move on which is not good for the team for the next few years.

I have one other comment about the rankings of the ACC attack units - under March, Cuse featured the midfield more than other teams so our attack stats arguably could have been better with a weaker or less utilized midfield. Having said that, I think Cuse' attack is still no better than 4th.

 

[ivorytower]

ACC is a power conference. Could be 4th out of five and still be good .Ultimate goal is natl chip so problably best to view attack in wider perspective of the likely 16 playoff teams beyond just ACC teams. Cornell, Yale, Princeton, Penn, PSU, Maryland, Georgetown, Loyola, Denver n perhaps Villanova. Lehigh, Army to name several were likely headed to NCAA's. Agree that Cuse attack complements mids but was that enough to win a chip? Some questions about any unit going into 2021 would be better discerned if 2020 had a longer run.

 

[Hoo's That]

No word out of Cornell if they will allow 5th years back, so he might be able to stay. Beleive Harvard, Princeton and Yale were the only Ivy's to officially say no to 5th years as of now. Don't think any have said yes to them either, but it feels like the longer it drags on, the more likely it is they allow it.

FWIW it looks like Cornell updated their roster for 2021, and none of the fifth year seniors are listed. Could mean many things, but thought it was interesting.

2025 Men's Lacrosse Roster - Cornell University Athletics

The official 2025 Men's Lacrosse Roster for the Cornell University Big Red

cornellbigred.com

Cornell had no choice because the Ivy League HQ said that, despite the NCAA's decision, there would not be a waiver for spring athletes of their conference rule which prohibits a 5th year under any circumstance.

 

[Powellfan]

Cornell had no choice because the Ivy League HQ said that, despite the NCAA's decision, there would not be a waiver for spring athletes of their conference rule which prohibits a 5th year under any circumstance.

Do you have a link for this? I’m under the impression that the Ivy League ultimately left it up to individual schools. Princeton, Harvard and Yale put out announcements but other teams have not.

Over on fanlax it seems like a lot Cornell fans are under the impression there is a chance seniors come back (possibly by not graduating on time which is allowed by Ivy League teams - the Rob Pannel rule).

 

[Zack80]

There were some articles like:

Report: Ivy League Does Not Approve One-Time Exception for Spring Athletes

Even though the NCAA granted an eligibility waiver, the Ivy League will not follow suit.

www.uslaxmagazine.com

 

[Powellfan]

There were some articles like:

Report: Ivy League Does Not Approve One-Time Exception for Spring Athletes

Even though the NCAA granted an eligibility waiver, the Ivy League will not follow suit.

www.uslaxmagazine.com

Thanks, but I don’t think this was ever finalized. That’s why it’s header is: “Report”. The end of the article states the situation is “developing”.

 

[Shrmdougluvr]

Thanks, but I don’t think this was ever finalized. That’s why it’s header is: “Report”. The end of the article states the situation is “developing”.

I didn't attend an Ivy League institution, but my general understanding is that it considers itself the model conference. And Harvard, Yale, and Princeton are the preeminent schools that the others aspire to. It would be absolutely remarkable if Cornell, Penn, Brown, and Dartmouth deviated in any way from those 3. The concept of putting sport in any way above academics is repugnant to those schools (at least that is the appearance they wish to project).

Also, Cornell clearly addressed what set the Pannell matter apart. The rehab he had to accomplish would have inhibited him academically to his detriment. I don't think that's the case with Teat et al.

 

[Zack80]

Thanks, but I don’t think this was ever finalized. That’s why it’s header is: “Report”. The end of the article states the situation is “developing”.

I imagine they did update this statement:
"O'Neil reported earlier this week that Michael Sowers had withdrawn from classes at Princeton in order to return in 2021"
at some point.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

 

[Powellfan]

 

[Powellfan]

Sounds like Xanders will rely on his Recruiting Rankings more than actual production on the field for this list. Fernandez should be ranked pretty high on this list, given that not many of the underclassmen that I know about saw much actual playing time. In fact I think he and Xander Dickson of UVA might be the only two? Apologies if I am leaving someone out. Obviously there are many reasons for a player deciding to transfer, but most of the underclassmen in the portal that are public weren't getting playing time, including a bunch of highly rated IL players (DeSantis, Pallonetti, Burlace). Feels like that should factor into any "ranking".

 

[ivorytower]

Agree, slim pickings. Xanders and IL do a fine job but they do miss on some either way . Sense at times a tendency to validate hs rankings or not

Dickson can dodge and has an assortment of releases around the cage. Expect him to do fairly well wherever he lands. Pallonetti will help someone

 

[DoctahLexus]

Sounds like Xanders will rely on his Recruiting Rankings more than actual production on the field for this list. Fernandez should be ranked pretty high on this list, given that not many of the underclassmen that I know about saw much actual playing time. In fact I think he and Xander Dickson of UVA might be the only two? Apologies if I am leaving someone out. Obviously there are many reasons for a player deciding to transfer, but most of the underclassmen in the portal that are public weren't getting playing time, including a bunch of highly rated IL players (DeSantis, Pallonetti, Burlace). Feels like that should factor into any "ranking".

In the case of Palonetti he was a freshman and MDs offense was stacked so he could still be quite a good player. But their defense (for the first time in a while) was highly suspect and it could actually be telling that he didn’t see the field at all as a sophomore for a D giving up about 13 goals a game. I’m sure he cracks the top 10 only because, as you said, there isn’t that much playing time from underclasses in the portal. We will save the trashing of IL for if he’s ranked over Fernandez!

 

[ivorytower]

Fernandez has to be listed near top because he has actually played n performed over 3 yrs unlike most others n still has two years of eligibility left if he wishes. I have him at #2.
Would have listed Madtronic near top off undergrad talent/acheivement in portal but gonna be sr in 2022. Went Cuse 15-19 .Sue me CC.

Here are 20 undergrads off top of head who should land..

Costin m Utah
Fernandez lsm Cuse
Kirson g OSU
Dickson att UVA
Stopak.att Hofstra
Burlace lsm/cd Yale-Maryland
Pallonetti att Maryland
Donnelly g Utah-Albany
Cornwell lsm UMBC
DeSantis cd Maryland-OSU
Tomei g OSU- Jacksonville
Gainey g JHU
Szuluk cd Lafayette
Morris g Maryland
Strang g Cuse
Kim A g Cuse
Donnelly att Cute
Nelson att Cuse
Kim J m Cuse
Garb att Wagner
*** Madtronic att Harvard, declared for 2023.

 

[DoctahLexus]

Fernandez has to be listed near top because he has actually played n performed over 3 yrs unlike most others n still has two years of eligibility left if he wishes. I have him at #2.
Would have listed Madtronic near top off undergrad talent/acheivement in portal but gonna be sr in 2022. Went Cuse 15-19 .Sue me CC.

Here are 20 undergrads off top of head who should land..

Costin m Utah
Fernandez lsm Cuse
Kirson g OSU
Dickson att UVA
Stopak.att Hofstra
Burlace lsm/cd Yale-Maryland
Pallonetti att Maryland
Donnelly g Utah-Albany
Cornwell lsm UMBC
DeSantis cd Maryland-OSU
Tomei g OSU- Jacksonville
Gainey g JHU
Szuluk cd Lafayette
Morris g Maryland
Strang g Cuse
Kim A g Cuse
Donnelly att Cute
Nelson att Cuse
Kim J m Cuse
Garb att Wagner
*** Madtronic att Harvard, declared for 2023.

McComber and Isaiah Skidders at Albany both have potential as well.