2021 O/U conference Wins

[TheCusian]

In the grand scheme of things and with consistency, not really.

agreed.. but that’s not what he said. Not trying to be nit picky, but I think he deserves his due for FSU and UNC, both of whom we’d have lost to without him.

 

[Scooch]

I think its not just a wins thing, it has to be were we healthy and did we look better.. Offense sells so would people like losing 40-35 more than 30-10?

if we win 3-4 and lose several close games but score in doing it I think they ride it out one more year.

if we are healthy and win 1-2 then I doubt they stay the course..

You may be right, but I hope not. It’s year 6, the time for moral victories and vague “progress” is long past, in my opinion. I don’t care how “good” we look, if we go 3-9 then Dino’s gotta go.

 

[Scooch]

Bowl game, 7 wins - sure. Might be possible with 5th and 6th years guys in the DL and veteran experience across the OL. It might not be the most talented bunch in the lines, but the experience is there.
Apart from the win count, the assessment for Dino depends on being competitive against rivals, having the offense actually produce and not look over-matched, and upgrading recruiting.
It looks like our 2021 team will be competitive if we can get something from the QB spot. We don’t want a one-year burst (as in 2018) then a fall off. And that comes back to recruiting.

I could very well be wrong, but being “competitive” yet losing just isn’t good enough in year 6. Winning 3 or 4 games has to be grounds for dismissal, even if some of the losses are close.

 

[SuFTW]

agreed.. but that’s not what he said. Not trying to be nit picky, but I think he deserves his due for FSU and UNC, both of whom we’d have lost to without him.

He said “any time”, so it depends how you define “time”; one drive, a quarter, a half, a whole game, a stretch of games or a whole season.
Yes we all know the lore of the “Two Games”, but the playing time was about a quarter in one game and a half in the other.
Is that a significant amount of time? Do you factor in Western Michigan and Notre Dame from the same season?
You say yes those two games count as a “time”, others look on a bigger scale and say no.
For me the disappointment of the last two years makes those two games a distant memory of another era.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I could very well be wrong, but being “competitive” yet losing just isn’t good enough in year 6. Winning 3 or 4 games has to be grounds for dismissal, even if some of the losses are close.

Yeah.

I believe in Dino, but it's an extremely difficult argument to make that things are where they should be and on a good track if he doesn't get us to 6 wins and into a bowl.

 

[Cusefan69]

Agree. 4 wins or worse and he's a goner. 6+ and he stays. 5 would be interesting, although I suspect he'd get another year.

Agreed. I think some fans are not recalling JWs view on last year with covid happening. Maybe it was just AD speak but I think Dino has a little bit more wiggle room than fans are thinking. He doesn't have 1-10 wiggle but my guess is 5 wins would push him to hot seat status the following year. I do believe Dino finds 6 to 7 wins.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I've said this before but I think we need to finish the entire season with at least 7 wins.

6 wins gets a P5 team to a bowl game, so when bowl season is done and if we still have only 6 wins it means we went to a bowl, lost the bowl, finished 6-7, and had 5 losing seasons in 6 years including 3 losing seasons in a row.

I don't see how Dino survives that.

Firing a HC after a Bowl game is worse than keeping a HC for going 6-7. Your candidate pool is very limited at that point. You have already missed out on the guys who are hired well before your game is even played. It is how we got stuck with GRob.

 

[TheCusian]

He said “any time”, so it depends how you define “time”; one drive, a quarter, a half, a whole game, a stretch of games or a whole season.
Yes we all know the lore of the “Two Games”, but the playing time was about a quarter in one game and a half in the other.
Is that a significant amount of time? Do you factor in Western Michigan and Notre Dame from the same season?
You say yes those two games count as a “time”, others look on a bigger scale and say no.
For me the disappointment of the last two years makes those two games a distant memory of another era.

Yeah, not going to convince me on this one. If someone says “at any time” but there was a chunk of time where the guy delivered two of the most important wins in what was the best season in 20 years? He gets credit.

He obviously shares in the blame for not performing the last two, too. He needs to take a jump, but we don’t need to erase the good he’s done to see it.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

No way. You don’t get to hire a new offensive coordinator twice with only one winning season in 6 years. The indictment is on him as a CEO.

If we look like we are close to turning the corner and you have faith that a new system propels us forward, wouldn't that be better than having blind faith in a completely new hire?

If we are a complete cluster F or go worse than 4-8 then I wouldn't consider it. But if we are 4-8 or 5-7 and really close to getting things right, is it a risk? I am talking a 2016-2017 type of team not a 2019 type of team.

 

[TheCusian]

Agreed. I think some fans are not recalling JWs view on last year with covid happening. Maybe it was just AD speak but I think Dino has a little bit more wiggle room than fans are thinking. He doesn't have 1-10 wiggle but my guess is 5 wins would push him to hot seat status the following year. I do believe Dino finds 6 to 7 wins.

This is right. Dino said he and Wildhack decided to stick out the Covid year despite some easy off ramps. They took the lumps they knew were coming, as approved by his boss. Usually that gets you a little wiggle room.

But I do agree with most that this year needs to be significantly better.

 

[Newhouser]

IF he gets to 4 wins the school won't move on him.

 

[Alsacs]

Our schedule is soft.
Sorry 6 wins should be the expectation.
I get Covid was a problem but we didn’t even look functional offensively last season.
That is pathetic in year 5.

If we aren’t a bowl team we need to make a change and I like Dino Babers and am a huge supporter.
One bowl season in 6 years isn’t enough.

 

[Alsacs]

IF he gets to 4 wins the school won't move on him.

This is just not realistic.
4-8 puts Dino at 28-44 in 6 years that isn’t good enough to retain. The program would be going backwards.

 

[Newhouser]

This is just not realistic.
4-8 puts Dino at 28-44 in 6 years that isn’t good enough to retain. The program would be going backwards.

I don't disagree with you at all. My only comment is I don't think the school would make a move if he gets to 4 wins.

 

[TexanMark]

The new renovation should help recruiting.

Fans need to do our part and put 40K in the Dome

 

[chugg21]

Looking at a potential $8m buyout if he was to be fired after this year. I think that will allow him to stay if he can get to 4 wins and not look BAD BAD in the process.

Prospect of paying that buy out and then paying for a quality HC replacement is not something I foresee the AD doing unless we are an embarrassment again this year.

Kind of sucks to know this is an issue for us when other schools we compete against can wipe that buyout off the books in a few phone calls and then pay a new guy top of the market the next day.

 

[elimunelson]

Our schedule is soft.
Sorry 6 wins should be the expectation.
I get Covid was a problem but we didn’t even look functional offensively last season.
That is pathetic in year 5.

If we aren’t a bowl team we need to make a change and I like Dino Babers and am a huge supporter.
One bowl season in 6 years isn’t enough.

I completely agree. HUGE Dino guy don't want to see him go but results oriented business and in year 6 you kinda need results oriented towards success.

Bowl is probably the key. Scooch said 5 wins it gets interesting. I would agree if extenuating circumstances derail a bowl season. I'm open to that discussion.

I do think it will be particularly painful to go through an offseason with a transition in recruiting/bevy of dino specific transfers and the clock resetting if Dino has to be relieved. I DO NOT want this but I think Wildhack has to be realistic about what the program is at this point.

It's funny because usually i'd talk myself into the guys i'd love see be the coach here. I keep thinking that Dino is the guy I want to be here so i'm pulling for this to happen. This isn't Scott Shafer/Greg Robinson type scenario for me anyway.

Go Dino, get it done!

 

[SuFTW]

Yeah, not going to convince me on this one. If someone says “at any time” but there was a chunk of time where the guy delivered two of the most important wins in what was the best season in 20 years? He gets credit.

He obviously shares in the blame for not performing the last two, too. He needs to take a jump, but we don’t need to erase the good he’s done to see it.

Nope, not trying to convince you.

 

[JRHEETER]

The only way Dino survives a 4 win season is if we look competitive in every single game that we lose…including Clemson.

If it’s 4 wins and we look like we did last season he’s gone.

5 wins could go either way. 5 wins but showing progress all season and he stays.

6 wins and his seat starts to cool down, more recruits will start coming in and the program starts to rise.

This is Dinos most pivotal season probably in his entire career.

 

[FloridaFan]

We went 7-6, 3-9, 4-8 with shafer who lost his QB both the two bad years and he got canned and we are saying we should keep a coach past his 6th year if we get another 4-8 year?

 

[Cusefan69]

We went 7-6, 3-9, 4-8 with shafer who lost his QB both the two bad years and he got canned and we are saying we should keep a coach past his 6th year if we get another 4-8 year?

I think people are taking what ADJW has previously stated as they share their perspective. Others are also including his buyout into the calculus.

 

[FloridaFan]

I think people are taking what ADJW has previously stated as they share their perspective. Others are also including his buyout into the calculus.

That’s all fine and good on the AD’s side. But as a fan I don’t consider a buyout when it comes to if I think a coach should stay or not. When you look at the stats anything less then 6 must go

 

[TheCusian]

The only way Dino survives a 4 win season is if we look competitive in every single game that we lose…including Clemson.

If it’s 4 wins and we look like we did last season he’s gone.

5 wins could go either way. 5 wins but showing progress all season and he stays.

6 wins and his seat starts to cool down, more recruits will start coming in and the program starts to rise.

This is Dinos most pivotal season probably in his entire career.

<whispers> we looked competitive vs Clemson last year</whispers><ducks>

 

[elimunelson]

We went 7-6, 3-9, 4-8 with shafer who lost his QB both the two bad years and he got canned and we are saying we should keep a coach past his 6th year if we get another 4-8 year?

Yes we are saying that. Sometimes things are what they are.

 

[Scooch]

I completely agree. HUGE Dino guy don't want to see him go but results oriented business and in year 6 you kinda need results oriented towards success.

Bowl is probably the key. Scooch said 5 wins it gets interesting. I would agree if extenuating circumstances derail a bowl season. I'm open to that discussion.

I do think it will be particularly painful to go through an offseason with a transition in recruiting/bevy of dino specific transfers and the clock resetting if Dino has to be relieved. I DO NOT want this but I think Wildhack has to be realistic about what the program is at this point.

It's funny because usually i'd talk myself into the guys i'd love see be the coach here. I keep thinking that Dino is the guy I want to be here so i'm pulling for this to happen. This isn't Scott Shafer/Greg Robinson type scenario for me anyway.

Go Dino, get it done!

Yep, my 5 wins/gets interesting comment involves a scenario where, say, we start DeVito and struggle, but the transfer QB wins the job later in the year, we win a few and things looks promising. Or something like that. Basically, real hope prevails.

If its a 5-7 season where we start 5-2 and then collapse... I think we may move on.

I'm the same boat as you, Dino is a tremendous representative of SU, and I desperately want him to succeed. But this is a results business, and 5 losing seasons in 6 years just isn't good enough.

That all being said, I have a hunch we'll stick with Dino for 2022 regardless, save for a truly catastrophic season. JW may think there's more harm in moving on than trying one more time.