2022 Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot

[cuseattle]

Rolen’s career WAR is the 9th best all-time for 3B and over 10 points higher than the average WAR for HOF 3B.

Edmonds belongs in the HOF. He has the toughest road to get there among the Cardinals I mentioned. One of the best defensive CF ever and he was an outstanding hitter in STL, playing in a pitcher’s park.

Edmonds is the kind of player I was envisioning who doesn't get enough attention for his extended years of superlative defense.

 

[goofnoff]

The skills of a good third baseman are far more scarce than a DH. WAR says Rolen was more valuable. We will have to agree to disagree.

I pay no attention to the NL during the year and I've been that way my whole life. Truthfully, I never heard of Rolen. I just looked him up. He clearly has HOF stats if Jackie Jensen is in the hall.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

Ortiz postseason makes a huge portion of case.

Also Ortiz hit over 500 HRs.
Martinez was a better hitter for average.

Ortiz postseason numbers and how he was nice to the media propelled him.

10th vs 1st? Makes zero sense.. why are homeruns more valuable than ops+ which is actually a true measure of overall offensive value ? Who cares how you amass that value as long as you do ? The objective of a DH is to create runs .. Martinez created more runs on average per season….mostly due to his crazy on base skills ..

 

[cliftonparksufan]

He was in Toronto for a season and a half.

The Cards were a Pujols/Rolen/Edmonds team back then. Molina was just starting his career.

All four should be in the HOF, BTW.

Edmonds had a real nice 17 year career. However his 4 All Star games and 2.5% of his 1st year HOF voting shows he is not worthy. Hall of Good? Yes. Hall of Fame. No.

 

[Day2]

Edmonds had a real nice 17 year career. However his 4 All Star games and 2.5% of his 1st year HOF voting shows he is not worthy. Hall of Good? Yes. Hall of Fame. No.

The Outsiders: No. 15, Andruw Jones & Jim Edmonds
The Outsiders: No. 15, Andruw Jones & Jim Edmonds

Hall-Of-Fame Careers That Cooperstown Never Gave The Time Of Day

Kenny Lofton was as good as Tim Raines -- where were HIS stathead advocates?

fivethirtyeight.com

 

[KaiserUEO]

A gripping saga: 11 tales of pitchers using spitters, sandpaper and scuffing | Sports Illustrated

thats nothing.

and good for whitey for doing something right on the mound in front of the umps.

wouldve love to see ortiz calling time out to needle up...

 

[Lord Ashby]

10th vs 1st? Makes zero sense.. why are homeruns more valuable than ops+ which is actually a true measure of overall offensive value ? Who cares how you amass that value as long as you do ? The objective of a DH is to create runs .. Martinez created more runs on average per season….mostly due to his crazy on base skills ..

Ortiz must have done something right as he won the Edgar Martinez award a record 8x. The Cardinals decision to pitch to him in both in the 03 and 13 WS helped him to post his gaudy post season #'s, including an OPS of 1.948 in the 2013 WS. As a life long Cardinal fan, I don't think Edmonds belongs in HOF. Rolen will get in soon as 3rd base is under represented and there is a weak ballot next year. Hopefully, Rolen goes in as a Phillies as I don't view him as a Cardinal given his service time with the Phillies & Reds - both parks which I'm sure helped his oWAR.

 

[donniesyracuse]

Phillies & Reds - both parks which I'm sure helped his oWAR.

I believe FanGraphs WAR adjusts for ballpark effect.

 

[donniesyracuse]

why are homeruns more valuable than ops+ which is actually a true measure of overall offensive value ?

I like wRC+ better than OPS+. Martinez's career wRC+ is 147 and Ortiz's is 140. They are pretty damn close.

From FanGraphs:

"The problem with OPS is that one point of OBP and one point of SLG are not equal. OBP is about twice as valuable as SLG, meaning that OPS overrates power hitters and underrates high-OBP guys."

 

[bpo57]

no he had the 2 really good years and one more later.. his last 10 years starting at 30 he was a 10HR/50RBI guy.. he had one more good yr at 31 then he the one yr with the reds he played most of a season and popped 20 HRs. Even his peak yrs he was a 25 hr/90 RBI guy. Some of that was he played so few game so many seasons.

he played almost 20 yrs and avg 18/71..

Now if people value the D more that elevates him but GGs are inflated. If you get one you tend to get more and others never get on at all.

Yeah there are a boatload of guys not in the HoF with better offensive #s than that. I get his defense was superb but u gotta be more productive than that at the plate to get into Cooperstown imo.

 

[bpo57]

Rolen’s career WAR is the 9th best all-time for 3B and over 10 points higher than the average WAR for HOF 3B.

Edmonds belongs in the HOF. He has the toughest road to get there among the Cardinals I mentioned. One of the best defensive CF ever and he was an outstanding hitter in STL, playing in a pitcher’s park.

Tough call on Edmonds but I'd put him in over Rolen.

 

[bpo57]

10th vs 1st? Makes zero sense.. why are homeruns more valuable than ops+ which is actually a true measure of overall offensive value ? Who cares how you amass that value as long as you do ? The objective of a DH is to create runs .. Martinez created more runs on average per season….mostly due to his crazy on base skills ..

And Ortiz had the three rings and the off the charts postseason #s. That clearly gives him the edge. Why else do u play the game other than to win championships?

 

[donniesyracuse]

Why else do u play the game other than to win championships?

Rewarding or punishing individual players for their teams' collective performances is silly. Ortiz was great and contributed to his teams winning World Series. He was also fortunate to be on good teams. Some guys are not so fortunate.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

And Ortiz had the three rings and the off the charts postseason #s. That clearly gives him the edge. Why else do u play the game other than to win championships?

First vs 10th level of an edge? I see these two as near neck and neck when you factor in Ortiz post season performance then subtract his being in the Mitchell report . But neither is first ballot level

 

[KaiserUEO]

Ortiz must have done something right as he won the Edgar Martinez award a record 8x. The Cardinals decision to pitch to him in both in the 03 and 13 WS helped him to post his gaudy post season #'s, including an OPS of 1.948 in the 2013 WS. As a life long Cardinal fan, I don't think Edmonds belongs in HOF. Rolen will get in soon as 3rd base is under represented and there is a weak ballot next year. Hopefully, Rolen goes in as a Phillies as I don't view him as a Cardinal given his service time with the Phillies & Reds - both parks which I'm sure helped his oWAR.

i had forgotten rolen didnt spend his entire career with philly.

good player, not HOF.

Paul O'Neill was more clutch and better.

 

[donniesyracuse]

i had forgotten rolen didnt spend his entire career with philly.

good player, not HOF.

Paul O'Neill was more clutch and better.

I love Paul O’Neill, but no.

 

[KaiserUEO]

Rewarding or punishing individual players for their teams' collective performances is silly. Ortiz was great and contributed to his teams winning World Series. He was also fortunate to be on good teams. Some guys are not so fortunate.

Yankee Bias.

without question all Yankee post season stats are eliminated from discussion.

redsux post season stats are led off with.

'before you even look at Ortiz awesome regular season stats, let me tell you what he did in the post season...'

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Go look at Edgar Martinez career value stats .. he’s better than Ortiz .. he also actually played a position for a few years .., he got in on his last opportunity .. he wasn’t named in the Mitchell report .. so how is Ortiz on the 1st ballot and Martinez the tenth ?

Because the press likes him

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

I love Paul O’Neill, but no.

I think he is border line (too few homers, though). His defense was a huge plus that should be considered. Guy saved runs just by being in right field. People just didn’t run in him. Stopped lots of 1st to 3rd tries.

 

[bpo57]

Rewarding or punishing individual players for their teams' collective performances is silly. Ortiz was great and contributed to his teams winning World Series. He was also fortunate to be on good teams. Some guys are not so fortunate.

To say he "contributed to his teams winning World Series" is a bit of a mild understatement. Probably the main reason the Red Sox had good teams was David Ortiz. Overlooking those postseason performances is even more silly.

 

[bpo57]

First vs 10th level of an edge? I see these two as near neck and neck when you factor in Ortiz post season performance then subtract his being in the Mitchell report . But neither is first ballot level

I guess the only part we agree upon is that Edgar shouldn't have had to wait til his 10th year. That was ridiculous. But Ortiz doesn't just have the postseason on Martinez. He's hit 225 more HRs and drove in 500 more runs. I can't fathom how you can dismiss that. And it's not like Martinez didn't have some serious hitters around him.

 

[bpo57]

Yankee Bias.

without question all Yankee post season stats are eliminated from discussion.

redsux post season stats are led off with.

'before you even look at Ortiz awesome regular season stats, let me tell you what he did in the post season...'

Nobody needs to tell you what Ortiz did in the postseason. You lived it. Painfully.

 

[bpo57]

I think he is border line (too few homers, though). His defense was a huge plus that should be considered. Guy saved runs just by being in right field. People just didn’t run in him. Stopped lots of 1st to 3rd tries.

Paul O'Neill in the HoF? Yikes!

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Paul O'Neill in the HoF? Yikes!

I didn’t say yes, I said he had too few homers, but his defense should be part of the consideration, although it almost never is (see Blair, Paul).

 

[donniesyracuse]

To say he "contributed to his teams winning World Series" is a bit of a mild understatement. Probably the main reason the Red Sox had good teams was David Ortiz. Overlooking those postseason performances is even more silly.

Nobody is overlooking his postseason performance. His postseason numbers match his regular season numbers almost identically. That’s great!

Saying Player A is better than Player B because he has more rings is silly.