2023 Preseason Top 20 Lookahead | Page 2 | Syracusefan.com

2023 Preseason Top 20 Lookahead

Zack80

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As much as Maryland has earned the benefit of the doubt I can't in good conscious put them at #1 when you look at what they lost from an offensive standpoint. Goalie and FOGO are in outstand shape and D returns a good amount but man Wisnauskas, Khan, DeMaio, Fairman, Donville is a ton to lose before even adding in Rahill, Prybylski, and Puglise. The cupboard is definitely not bare with Makar, Long, Maltz, Kelly, Malever, Murphy, Wierman, and young guys like Spanos etc but I don't care how good a coach you are, you lose that many stars your taking a step back. Maryland has also been pretty quiet (for their standard) in the portal which is a bit surprising to be honest. Perhaps they have something up there sleeve but I though Dordevic or the dude from Lehigh would have both fit in perfectly.

Good news for them is they should clearly be the head of the class for the B10. RU will take a step back if not several, PSU and Hop have good O players coming in but will likely need another year or 2 to get fully up to speed and Michigan is Michigan. OSU has done a real nice job in the portal but FOGO and Offense are major question marks.
I agree with you that Maryland will take a step back, but they are taking a step back from an undefeated, national championship team. One has a pack of top teams that are pretty close, and I choose to go with UMd. Certainly, Tillman has shown an ability to keep the Terps up there near the top.

I think you need to separate out the long pole discussion. The Terps return 2 starters: Makar and Zappitello who were both All-Americans, along with starting LSM Geppert an HM All American. The Terps have 2 UA AAs: AJ Larkin and Will Schaller, along with 1st team Post All-Met in George Stamos coming in as freshman. Colin Burlace, an UA AA last year, was getting his feet wet this spring, and Jack McDonald played well in a reserve role for the Terps.
 

Laxfanshutt

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They will definitely add at least 1 guy but the issue is the longer this drags on the less options the staff will have and the less likely whoever they bring in will be able to make a major impact.
Agree 100%
 

Powellfan

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Curious what you mean by this Mr. Powellfan. Think they should ditch Williams at attack and go with three dodgers?

Good Doctor - I feel like Williams and O’Neil essentially play the same position, or at least are at their best when they occupy the same place on the field. With two lefties like that, with neither of them being an X attackman, Duke always looks disjointed and off balance. Maybe Schelling is a better fit in the offense and will help link the two, but I have my doubts.
 

Zack80

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O'Neill did increase his assists from 10 as a freshman to 21 last year.
 

UrbanaOrange

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I agree with you that Maryland will take a step back, but they are taking a step back from an undefeated, national championship team. One has a pack of top teams that are pretty close, and I choose to go with UMd. Certainly, Tillman has shown an ability to keep the Terps up there near the top.

I think you need to separate out the long pole discussion. The Terps return 2 starters: Makar and Zappitello who were both All-Americans, along with starting LSM Geppert an HM All American. The Terps have 2 UA AAs: AJ Larkin and Will Schaller, along with 1st team Post All-Met in George Stamos coming in as freshman. Colin Burlace, an UA AA last year, was getting his feet wet this spring, and Jack McDonald played well in a reserve role for the Terps.
Terps will be very stout on D this and the foreseeable future. Makar and Zappitello are elite. It is almost an embarrassment of riches. It may be an issue keeping all of these kids happy. -oh well... this is a 'Cuse message board.

Happy Prime Day
 

DoctahLexus

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Good Doctor - I feel like Williams and O’Neil essentially play the same position, or at least are at their best when they occupy the same place on the field. With two lefties like that, with neither of them being an X attackman, Duke always looks disjointed and off balance. Maybe Schelling is a better fit in the offense and will help link the two, but I have my doubts.
Funny how some teams make it work with an offball oriented guy on attack and some dont. Gaudet with Reeves and Morrill, Laviano with Moore and Kraus etc. It can work for sure but the chemistry has to be there. ONeill was juuust starting to play at a level that came close to matching the hype at the end of last season. Got at least a little better at looking to pass. Just not that true x QB attack like a Sowers or Spencer type. Likes to dodge off the wing or even up top quite a bit. Maybe a off ball oriented guy on attack works better when your dodgers prefer dodging from behind the cage? That was probably the case for the Reeves to Gaudet connection or Kraus to Laviano. Most recent Cuse example would probably be Rehfuss to Voigt. Both lefties yet they worked together well. Rehfuss doing most of his dirty work at x could have been a factor in their success. Just spitballing here.
 

nyclax

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Dyson Willliams is a crease monkey/inside finisher and not much of a dodger. I don't see a huge conflict with O'Neill, a prototypical wing dodger, being on the field at the same time. Schelling is a good fit for them as a righty who can play both behind the cage and on the opposite wing. Losing Montgomery, Lulley, and Robertson hurts but Duke's offense shouldn't miss a beat especially if McAdorey taks another step forward. Still can't shake the feeling that Dano Jr. is holding them back and they'd be much better with a more creative offensive mind as coordinator.
 

Stealth4785

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I don't understand everyone's hesitancy about playing true freshmen. These freshmen are playing much more lacrosse all year long. The competition is better, the coaching is better and the programs some of these kids are coming from are run similar to that of a D1 college program. Rebuilding a program starts by bringing in talent - not playing them only stifles their growth. Searching the transfer portal for impact players helps short term, but not for the long hall. Removing opportunities for playing time for these incoming freshmen pushes them towards the portal. The portal is a double edged sword.
 

CrazyPeople

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I don't understand everyone's hesitancy about playing true freshmen. These freshmen are playing much more lacrosse all year long. The competition is better, the coaching is better and the programs some of these kids are coming from are run similar to that of a D1 college program. Rebuilding a program starts by bringing in talent - not playing them only stifles their growth. Searching the transfer portal for impact players helps short term, but not for the long hall. Removing opportunities for playing time for these incoming freshmen pushes them towards the portal. The portal is a double edged sword.
The pace of play, physicality and concepts that someone will see at DI, never the less an ACC, IVY or Big10 school, cannot be easily replicated at the HS or club level. Schools like Lawrenceville, Culver and the rest of the prep schools do a good job preparing a player to play at the next level, but those kids will still need time to acclimate. It takes a special kid to come in and be ready right away, and especially really contribute.
 

Cuse4455

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Terps will be very stout on D this and the foreseeable future. Makar and Zappitello are elite. It is almost an embarrassment of riches. It may be an issue keeping all of these kids happy. -oh well... this is a 'Cuse message board.

Happy Prime Day
Marylands in state Tuition is 10k, out of state 30k, Syracuse tuition is 52k... 78k for total expenses. I just don't see how we can compete long term if our Admins keep raising the price for a decent but not great education. Maryland should get every 5 star DMV kid, tbh.
 

JeremyCuse

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The pace of play, physicality and concepts that someone will see at DI, never the less an ACC, IVY or Big10 school, cannot be easily replicated at the HS or club level. Schools like Lawrenceville, Culver and the rest of the prep schools do a good job preparing a player to play at the next level, but those kids will still need time to acclimate. It takes a special kid to come in and be ready right away, and especially really contribute.

We have a winner (you nailed it). Plus when you play multiple or perhaps in our case numerous freshmen your relying on guys to not hit the freshmen wall later in the year and to limit mistakes and bad decisions which is usually an issue for freshmen players. Sometimes throwing guys into the fire to early can also stunt their growth and in rarer cases put them into a funk they never really break out of. Nothing wrong with starting multiple freshmen if you have to but at this level you have to keep expectations in check.
 

Zack80

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Marylands in state Tuition is 10k, out of state 30k, Syracuse tuition is 52k... 78k for total expenses. I just don't see how we can compete long term if our Admins keep raising the price for a decent but not great education. Maryland should get every 5 star DMV kid, tbh.
V kids live in V not M. D kids might live in D M or V. Even some M kids at an M school like Landon might live in V.

5-star kids get good scholarships, so the tuition differmce doesn't matter as much. Private school parents usually have a fair amount of money to make up the difference and send their kid where ever he wants to go.

Not a lot of 5 stars from the DC suburbs recently at UMd. Justin Shockey was probably one.
 

Stealth4785

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The pace of play, physicality and concepts that someone will see at DI, never the less an ACC, IVY or Big10 school, cannot be easily replicated at the HS or club level. Schools like Lawrenceville, Culver and the rest of the prep schools do a good job preparing a player to play at the next level, but those kids will still need time to acclimate. It takes a special kid to come in and be ready right away, and especially really contribute.
I believe that this thought process is an old way of thinking. Duke doesn't seem to think this way and I believe they've had some success recently. I could say the same for any of the other ACC teams as well in regards to their freshmen classes. I can easily argue that our 2022 is the most talented class we've had in a long time and on par with some of the best classes in the past few years in the ACC if not better. This type of thinking where upper classmen and transfers are best capable of starting and contributing consistently throughout the season is dangerous and could lead to a mass exodus at the end of the season.
 

DoctahLexus

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I believe that this thought process is an old way of thinking. Duke doesn't seem to think this way and I believe they've had some success recently. I could say the same for any of the other ACC teams as well in regards to their freshmen classes. I can easily argue that our 2022 is the most talented class we've had in a long time and on par with some of the best classes in the past few years in the ACC if not better. This type of thinking where upper classmen and transfers are best capable of starting and contributing consistently throughout the season is dangerous and could lead to a mass exodus at the end of the season.
On O we are bringing in two transfers, but we lost our top 4 points producers last year, longtime contributors in Quinn and Buttermore, and a promising freshman to the portal in Corsi. Bringing in only two guys with those losses is essentially giving the rookies this year a golden opportunity. We could easily have three rookies in our top 6 middies and one or possibly two on attack. In fact we have almost guaranteed that by not bringing in a bunch of guys on offense. If there is one year to not be worried about scaring freshman off due to our portal practices it's this one.
 

CrazyPeople

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I believe that this thought process is an old way of thinking. Duke doesn't seem to think this way and I believe they've had some success recently. I could say the same for any of the other ACC teams as well in regards to their freshmen classes. I can easily argue that our 2022 is the most talented class we've had in a long time and on par with some of the best classes in the past few years in the ACC if not better. This type of thinking where upper classmen and transfers are best capable of starting and contributing consistently throughout the season is dangerous and could lead to a mass exodus at the end of the season.
What happens when those freshman are asked to bare too much of the load and it doesn't go well? What happens if we start 4+ freshman on offense and they go 4-10 again. You can start 1 or 2 (ie. Hiltz freshman year), but you need solid upperclassmen to lead the way. Duke and other ACC teams have don exactly this. Shellenberg redshirted his freshman year and he was the #1 recruit in the country...
 

SkyTopBus44

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So much pressure was placed on JorDan Evans to play right away that they moved him to SSDM which may have stunted his growth. There are of course exceptions to the rule but seems to me that I’d prefer to ease frosh in
 

Stealth4785

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What happens when those freshman are asked to bare too much of the load and it doesn't go well? What happens if we start 4+ freshman on offense and they go 4-10 again. You can start 1 or 2 (ie. Hiltz freshman year), but you need solid upperclassmen to lead the way. Duke and other ACC teams have don exactly this. Shellenberg redshirted his freshman year and he was the #1 recruit in the country...
I knew that the Shellenberger example would be brought up and that example is an outlier compared to every other number one recruit. If the athletics department is committed to Gait for the long term, then development and culture matter in the interim compared to wins and losses. Take the pressure off the kids, let them play and develop. Give them a long leash, let them play as long as they play within the system, and encourage their development. There will be bumps in the road, sure, but the program will be better off in the long run, in my opinion.
 

JeremyCuse

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I knew that the Shellenberger example would be brought up and that example is an outlier compared to every other number one recruit. If the athletics department is committed to Gait for the long term, then development and culture matter in the interim compared to wins and losses. Take the pressure off the kids, let them play and develop. Give them a long leash, let them play as long as they play within the system, and encourage their development. There will be bumps in the road, sure, but the program will be better off in the long run, in my opinion.

Plenty of true frosh are going to play next year ie Spallina, Thomson, Kempney, Rhoa (likely), at least two long poles probably 3 and perhaps Leo and a few others. Not sure I understand where the angst is coming from.
 

Powellfan

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I knew that the Shellenberger example would be brought up and that example is an outlier compared to every other number one recruit. If the athletics department is committed to Gait for the long term, then development and culture matter in the interim compared to wins and losses. Take the pressure off the kids, let them play and develop. Give them a long leash, let them play as long as they play within the system, and encourage their development. There will be bumps in the road, sure, but the program will be better off in the long run, in my opinion.

Losing can also drive players to the portal. It pretty much cost us Dordevic for next year. I’m sure if SU wasn’t coming off a 4 win season he’d be much more inclined to stick around. Does Hiltz want to stick around for another two or three seasons while he waits for younger players to get up to snuff? Highly doubtful. I’m sure he’s much more excited to play with another former Culver teammate in Alex Simmons.

Also just because you bring in a transfer doesn’t mean you are obligated to play them. If the younger players are outplaying them, if they are outplaying anyone on the team regardless of class, the coaches can still play them.

Interesting that you use Duke as an example seeing as they were one of the biggest users of the portal the last few years.

I just don’t think you can simply rely on one class to be successful. The younger players need older players to show them the ropes and build a culture. Show them how to be a good college lacrosse player. No high school or club team can do that for you. I think SU has managed the portal really well this off-season. They just didn’t have a strong baseline of talent behind the freshmen, and now they’ve strengthened it.
 

AD31

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A good mix of upper class man with some freshman who can handle it will work out great. Like someone said u can't start all freshman and have a terrible season. A lot of guys will transfer out and recruits don't want to play for a losing team. Another bad season will hurt this team big time. Need to play the best and most likely more experienced players will play along with a nice amount of freshman who are ready and extremely talented. Some freshman come in and are ready right away while others who may end up just as good of a player but was not ready freshman year to contribute. Everyone is different. We know 5 or 6 freshman will most likely play a lot of mins next season. The ones who are ready will get their opportunity. I agree tho u can sit upper class man just to develop young guys for the future and tank next season. This isn't the NFL this is college and with the transfer portal the top players will leave. Every kid wants to play in the NCAA tournament and final 4 wknd. It's been there dream since a young boy. They will go to a team with a great chance to do that.
 

AD31

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Also not only will kids look to transfer with another losing season next yr but no top transfers will want to come to Cuse. Then the following yr will be another losing season and 3 in a row with no hope. This team needs to make the tournament next yr. Doesn't have to win and go to final 4 but needs to have a solid season and make the tournament. Then all these top recruits will stay along with Hiltz and maybe not 5 transfers next yr but 1 or 2 top transfers can come in along with the young guys this team could be playing MMD wknd in two yrs. The best players have to play next season. U can't sit experienced solid vets just to give freshman time to develop for the future. All that will do is turn the program into a losing one. Rebounding with a good season next yr is extremely important.
 

Stealth4785

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I chose Duke as example as they've had the past couple number one recruits, who they've utilized and had big seasons. Their incoming freshmen play a big role in the regular season and post season. O'Neil, McAdorey and Naso all played a huge role their freshmen seasons. Look at UVA, Nunes was a starter as a freshmen, Schutz played a big role as a freshmen, Kastner had a huge role as well. Brower for UNC, Kavanaugh for ND as well. The notion that these recruits, the various five star and high four stars aren't ready to play in the ACC and contribute to a winning team is ridiculous. These kids are playing more lacrosse, all year round, both box and field, combine those with the skill training that I constantly see leads me to believe that they can play a bigger role than anyone of you believe. Look at Michigan's Fab 5 as a example, unheard of at the time, but revolutionary and successful. Look at basketball as an example, with AAU, high school teams, other random high level leagues - tell me Paolo Banchero wasn't ready as a freshmen to play. Or look at SUs NC team in 2003 and tell me Melo wasn't ready. How many true freshmen impact CFB in important conferences, at premium positions?

Many of the incoming freshmen are ready to play, let alone start. Let them play, in my opinion.
 

JeremyCuse

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I chose Duke as example as they've had the past couple number one recruits, who they've utilized and had big seasons. Their incoming freshmen play a big role in the regular season and post season. O'Neil, McAdorey and Naso all played a huge role their freshmen seasons. Look at UVA, Nunes was a starter as a freshmen, Schutz played a big role as a freshmen, Kastner had a huge role as well. Brower for UNC, Kavanaugh for ND as well. The notion that these recruits, the various five star and high four stars aren't ready to play in the ACC and contribute to a winning team is ridiculous. These kids are playing more lacrosse, all year round, both box and field, combine those with the skill training that I constantly see leads me to believe that they can play a bigger role than anyone of you believe. Look at Michigan's Fab 5 as a example, unheard of at the time, but revolutionary and successful. Look at basketball as an example, with AAU, high school teams, other random high level leagues - tell me Paolo Banchero wasn't ready as a freshmen to play. Or look at SUs NC team in 2003 and tell me Melo wasn't ready. How many true freshmen impact CFB in important conferences, at premium positions?

Many of the incoming freshmen are ready to play, let alone start. Let them play, in my opinion.

The difference is your talking about 1 4 or 5 star player seeing major minutes in each example. We were talking about depending on 5 or 6 seeing major minutes and how that could potentially be an issue. I think its clear that any incoming frosh at a position of need is going to see a lot of time next season be it Spallina, Thomson, Kempney, multiple long poles like Dwan etc. I don't know anyone who is against playing the frosh, there is however, some concern about running a half dozen plus out there.
 

JeremyCuse

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Also not only will kids look to transfer with another losing season next yr but no top transfers will want to come to Cuse. Then the following yr will be another losing season and 3 in a row with no hope. This team needs to make the tournament next yr. Doesn't have to win and go to final 4 but needs to have a solid season and make the tournament. Then all these top recruits will stay along with Hiltz and maybe not 5 transfers next yr but 1 or 2 top transfers can come in along with the young guys this team could be playing MMD wknd in two yrs. The best players have to play next season. U can't sit experienced solid vets just to give freshman time to develop for the future. All that will do is turn the program into a losing one. Rebounding with a good season next yr is extremely important.

I'd pump the brakes a little bit here, SU has had two losing seasons in the last like 40 years. If the team were to struggle next year its no going to suddenly become Canisius. Certainly a solid year and a tourney berth is what were all looking for (and I expect) but people aren't going to abandon ship in mass if there's some struggles next year especially when the team is expected to rely on so many younger players.
 

AD31

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No I agree I'm not saying they will turn into a bottom team I just mean some kids could leave and it's not as attractive of a place as it always has been. It's still Cuse so will never drop like that. Just think a good season next yr can bring this team back to the top. These young kids will all stay, Hiltz will stay and more kids will come. Another losing season and it will be harder to get top level recruits. A good season and it keeps on rolling right to final 4 wknd. That's all I meant.
 

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