3 Arguments for Shafer

[TheCusian]

This is incorrect. Luck hired Holgorsen as HCIW and OC from Oklahoma State. Stewart didn't like that he was being forced Holgorsen as his successor while he was HC so he leaked stories about Holgorsen being a gambler at WV casinos. The Administration found out that Stewart was the leak and decided to move on from him immediately and made Holgorsen HC earlier and not let Stewart have his last year.

Couple of ways to look at that I think

 

[Alsacs]

He's much more than a gambler.

I am sure but Stewart was as much a bad guy in the situation that as Holgerson.

WVU was giving him 1 more HC and locking up who they wanted to replace him. Stewart didn't like Holgerson and leaked stuff to make him look bad. WVU ended up getting rid of immediately for being the leak.

 

[TheCusian]

I am sure but Stewart was as much a bad guy in the situation that as Holgerson. WVU was giving him 1 more HC and locking up who they wanted to replace him. Stewart didn't like Holgerson and leaked stuff to make him look bad. WVU ended up getting rid of immediately for being the leak.

My buddy seemed to think Stewart was a WVU guy through and through and saw what Holgerson was about and didn't think he was right for the school.

 

[anomander]

I'm not comparing the situation they started with. Marrone did a better job. I'm comparing SOS of their 2nd years. The BE had a very down 2010. There was no FSU or Clemson on the schedule. The OOC games were miles easier than MD and ND. 2010: 105 2014: 26 And we've all read the posts here after the 2-4 start to 2012. Many were fed up with Marrone. He got more rope and rightly so. But he also had a cupcake year to pad his stats. There is no debating that.

Ya and he was also able to win games he wast supposed to win that year, something Shafer has yet to do. Has he even won a game as an underdog yet? To me it doesn't matter that Marrone had an extra pastie vs an FCS. He got an extra year because he won games he wasn't supposed to win. You can always look back to Marrone's tenure and rattle off the "big wins" ... WVU x2, Kansas St, Louisville. The point is win some games you're not supposed to and you will be given more rope.

 

[Crusty]

Ya and he was also able to win games he wast supposed to win that year, something Shafer has yet to do. Has he even won a game as an underdog yet? To me it doesn't matter that Marrone had an extra pastie vs an FCS. He got an extra year because he won games he wasn't supposed to win. You can always look back to Marrone's tenure and rattle off the "big wins" ... WVU x2, Kansas St, Louisville. The point is win some games you're not supposed to and you will be given more rope.

Minnesota for Shafer.

 

[OrangeAggieArmy]

Minnesota for Shafer.

It's a sad state of affairs when SU is not supposed to beat Minnesota.

 

[GoSU96]

Ya and he was also able to win games he wast supposed to win that year, something Shafer has yet to do. Has he even won a game as an underdog yet? To me it doesn't matter that Marrone had an extra pastie vs an FCS. He got an extra year because he won games he wasn't supposed to win. You can always look back to Marrone's tenure and rattle off the "big wins" ... WVU x2, Kansas St, Louisville. The point is win some games you're not supposed to and you will be given more rope.

09 - wins against 8 win NWestern, 9 win Rutgers, 10 - 8 win SF, 9 win WVU, KSt in bowl, 11 - 10 win WVU, 12 -11 win Lville, Missouri on the road, WVU in bowl.

Shafer one win against 8 win Minny in the bowl, only OOC P5 win, other than that, 7 win BC, Md, and Tulane in '13, 7 win CMU in 14.

I think its 2-15 against P5 the last two years, with the wins against Wake.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Ya and he was also able to win games he wast supposed to win that year, something Shafer has yet to do. Has he even won a game as an underdog yet?

6.5 underdog at NC State, won 24-10.
6 point underdog at Maryland, won 20-3.
2.5 dog to BC, won 34-31
3.5 dog to Minnesota, won 21-17.

 

[GoSU96]

I'd be interested in hearing more of that story. Maybe he was just fighting back when he found out Stewart was trying to dig up dirt on him.

I'd be fine with him being our OC. But it's never going to happen. He's been a fairly successful HC, so he's only taking HC roles, or OC roles at a heavyweight. We don't qualify, so you won't have to worry.

Pay enough, it's a P5 job. He isn't going to get another HC job at this level, is he going to take a HC job in CUSA or AAC?

 

[Alsacs]

6.5 underdog at NC State, won 24-10.
6 point underdog at Maryland, won 20-3.
2.5 dog to BC, won 34-31
3.5 dog to Minnesota, won 21-17.

You just rattled off EVERY non-Wake Forest P5 team we have beaten in SS's tenure as HC.

 

[OburgOrange]

some of his decisions frankly are head scratchers even to a layman and cost us points. this needs to be addressed.

I
Sorry dude. Had to do it. I love those commercials .

 

[donniesyracuse]

6.5 underdog at NC State, won 24-10.
6 point underdog at Maryland, won 20-3.
2.5 dog to BC, won 34-31
3.5 dog to Minnesota, won 21-17.

Facts, yuck!

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Would you like a list of all the P5 teams we lost to when we were favored?

Pitt in 2013
Maryland and NC State in 2014.
I'll even throw in USF this year.

We were favored by less than a FG in all 4 games.

We've won 4 games we were supposed to lose, and lost 4 games we were supposed to win.
We've held serve in the other 25.

9-4 as a favorite (13 total games) 6-4 not counting FCS (10 games)
4-16 as an underdog (20 total games)

Amazing how Vegas doesn't give you much of a chance to win when you're down to your 2rd or 3rd or 4th string QB.

 

[OrangeAggieArmy]

Would you like a list of all the P5 teams we lost to when we were favored?

Pitt in 2013
Maryland and NC State in 2014.
I'll even throw in USF this year.

We were favored by less than a FG in all 4 games.

We've won 4 games we were supposed to lose, and lost 4 games we were supposed to win.
We've held serve in the other 25.

9-4 as a favorite (13 total games) 6-4 not counting FCS (10 games)
4-16 as an underdog (20 total games)

Amazing how Vegas doesn't give you much of a chance to win when you're down to your 2rd or 3rd or 4th string QB.

So we're 10-20 against FBS schools the last 2+ seasons? Blech

 

[Alsacs]

Would you like a list of all the P5 teams we lost to when we were favored?

Pitt in 2013
Maryland and NC State in 2014.
I'll even throw in USF this year.

We were favored by less than a FG in all 4 games.

We've won 4 games we were supposed to lose, and lost 4 games we were supposed to win.
We've held serve in the other 25.

9-4 as a favorite (13 total games) 6-4 not counting FCS (10 games)
4-16 as an underdog (20 total games)

Amazing how Vegas doesn't give you much of a chance to win when you're down to your 2rd or 3rd or 4th string QB.

I had SU +1.5 vs. Maryland last year. I don't believe we were favored that game.
NC State was a game we shouldn't have lost last year but the pick-6 killed us.
USF was a game we opened underdog but it was pick 'em or SU -1 at kickoff.

We aren't good in year 3 and people want to preach patience. This staff hasn't earned patience.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

I had SU +1.5 vs. Maryland last year. I don't believe we were favored that game.
NC State was a game we shouldn't have lost last year but the pick-6 killed us.
USF was a game we opened underdog but it was pick 'em or SU -1 at kickoff.

We aren't good in year 3 and people want to preach patience. This staff hasn't earned patience.

-1.5 against Maryland according to the source I use:

http://www.covers.com/pageLoader/pa.../ncf/teams/pastresults/2014-2015/team104.html

 

[Cusefan78]

Would you like a list of all the P5 teams we lost to when we were favored?

Pitt in 2013
Maryland and NC State in 2014.
I'll even throw in USF this year.

We were favored by less than a FG in all 4 games.

We've won 4 games we were supposed to lose, and lost 4 games we were supposed to win.
We've held serve in the other 25.

9-4 as a favorite (13 total games) 6-4 not counting FCS (10 games)
4-16 as an underdog (20 total games)

Amazing how Vegas doesn't give you much of a chance to win when you're down to your 2rd or 3rd or 4th string QB.

I can't like this enough. Everyone is assuming we should be beating the Virginias, Pitts, and usf. We shouldn't be. Plain and simple they are much older teams that are a ton deeper then us. Honestly we could and should have had all three of those games if we got a few breaks and didn't have the freshman mistakes. If anything it's a positive sign that our young guys are playing well enough to give us that chance to win. Everyone thinks Marrone turned the corner and shafer should have just continued it on. This was always going to be a project and everyone knew it when he was hired. His problem was he got us to a bowl year one

 

[Crusty]

It's a sad state of affairs when SU is not supposed to beat Minnesota.

Actually, they have been ok recently.

 

[tep624]

1. He's
2. Not
3. GRob

90% of college coaches aren't that futile. That's hardly a measuring stick. He's not Mike Locksley either. Woo hoo!

 

[TheCusian]

Ya and he was also able to win games he wast supposed to win that year, something Shafer has yet to do. Has he even won a game as an underdog yet? To me it doesn't matter that Marrone had an extra pastie vs an FCS. He got an extra year because he won games he wasn't supposed to win. You can always look back to Marrone's tenure and rattle off the "big wins" ... WVU x2, Kansas St, Louisville. The point is win some games you're not supposed to and you will be given more rope.

Yeah - I'd buy that.

I will say the top end of who Shafer has on the schedule is better than the top end of Marrone's.

FSU > USC
Clemson > WVU

But yeah he needs to win some for sure. I've never really argued that point.

 

[TheCusian]

09 - wins against 8 win NWestern, 9 win Rutgers, 10 - 8 win SF, 9 win WVU, KSt in bowl, 11 - 10 win WVU, 12 -11 win Lville, Missouri on the road, WVU in bowl. Shafer one win against 8 win Minny in the bowl, only OOC P5 win, other than that, 7 win BC, Md, and Tulane in '13, 7 win CMU in 14. I think its 2-15 against P5 the last two years, with the wins against Wake.

There's no denying he had some great wins. It should be said that those early wins were built on the strength of the defense, but he rightfully gets credit for the Shafer hire.

In their first 3 years P5 with winning records, Marrone has 3 more wins.

 

[GoSU96]

There's no denying he had some great wins. It should be said that those early wins were built on the strength of the defense, but he rightfully gets credit for the Shafer hire.

In their first 3 years P5 with winning records, Marrone has 3 more wins.

Since you are so big on context, Marrone inherited 10-37, four straight losing seasons, the majority of statistically rankings, 36 of 60, under 100 for four years, 12 of 15 were below 100 in 2008,

vs

25-25, two 8 win seasons, and only two statistical rankings, both in 2009, under 100 for four years.

Not EVEN close to the same starting point.

And I'll point out again that the vast majority on this board predicted 8 wins in 2013.

 

[TheCusian]

Since you are so big on context, Marrone inherited 10-37, four straight losing seasons, the majority of statistically rankings, 36 of 60, under 100 for four years, 12 of 15 were below 100 in 2008, vs 25-25, two 8 win seasons, and only two statistical rankings, both in 2009, under 100 for four years. Not EVEN close to the same starting point. And I'll point out again that the vast majority on this board predicted 8 wins in 2013.

You keep saying this and I've never argued against it. I thought Marrone worked a miracle in 2009. He won against some good teams when not favored. A sign of a good HC. It's not about who has been better. I've never said that Shafer has been better.

I'm not trying to tear down Marrone. I'm trying to get people to see his time here accurately.

I've said that had Shafer gotten a season where the SOS was in the hundreds, we'd think of him in a much better light.

I've said that in their first 3 years, Marrone has 3 more wins vs winning FBS schools. Given where the started this is NOT a negative statement on Marrone but a way for the majority of the fans to give Shafer credit for 2013.

I could give a rip what the board thought prior to 2013. We were all feeling great after a "we're back 2012"... Vegas and SOS indicate we over performed, gutted out some tough wins first year in a new conference.

I've said that for 3 of the 4 Marrone years, we depended on a defense that was better than the offense. In 2010 we were 112 in total O and 32 in total D.

For me - that all makes it a very tough decision. Coyle could go either way and I wouldn't be surprised.

 

[Alsacs]

I can't like this enough. Everyone is assuming we should be beating the Virginias, Pitts, and usf. We shouldn't be. Plain and simple they are much older teams that are a ton deeper then us. Honestly we could and should have had all three of those games if we got a few breaks and didn't have the freshman mistakes. If anything it's a positive sign that our young guys are playing well enough to give us that chance to win. Everyone thinks Marrone turned the corner and shafer should have just continued it on. This was always going to be a project and everyone knew it when he was hired. His problem was he got us to a bowl year one

We shouldn't be beating USF, UVA, Pitt? Shut the program down if the expectations are that low. Nobody and I mean nobody predicted we would go 0-3 in those games.

If in year 3 of SS we can't expect to beat any of these teams he should be gone immediately.

 

[rrlbees]

He did that and he took a timeout with 15 seconds left in the 4th quarter and the clock running with CMU at our 25 yard line needing a touchdown to tie. The timeout helped CMU get a play in and they scored a TD the very next play. CMU was out of timeouts and it was so crazy to see happen in person. He said after we needed a timeout to get setup however CMU was not lined up and looked completely out of sorts. Luckily we won in overtime. I remember listening to the post game and a lot of people were WTFing on the radio. Edit: was worse than I thought, only 15 seconds left in the game

Is that the one where we left a receiver uncovered? Smart time out if so.