4-2-5 Study Hall

[TexanMark]

Understanding the 4-2-5 Defense - Football Toolbox

The 4.2.5 Defensive strategy as with all defensive schemes, is to prevent the opposing offense from gaining yards and scoring points, either by preventing the offense from advancing the ball beyond the line of scrimmage or by the defense taking the ball away from the offense (referred to as a turnover) and scoring points themselves.

With the 4..2.5 defense, there are four types of players: defensive linemen, inside linebackers, outside linebackers and defensive backs (also called secondary players). These players’ specific...

 

[money3189]

The simple way of looking at it, its like having an extra safety on the field and taking out a LB. This adds speed and play making ability vs spread teams.

 

[TexanMark]

Money you think Tampa 2 is dead at Cuse?

 

[money3189]

Money you think Tampa 2 is dead at Cuse?

I couldn't tell you but it sure looks like Tampa 2 is trending down. They ran less of it last season. There’s a lot of parts about it that they like so I don’t think it’s totally gone. It can always be used for situations.

 

[GoCuse14]

I like that they are willing to adapt if something isnt working.

 

[Ish88888]

WVU has run the 4-2-5 as their base. They have done OK with it in the B12, but by no means have been dominant. That said the B12 has some of the most prolific offenses in cfb.

 

[money3189]

WVU has run the 4-2-5 as their base. They have done OK with it in the B12, but by no means have been dominant. That said the B12 has some of the most prolific offenses in cfb.

Still have to concider the jimmies and the joes. The scheme is only part of the factor. You need some dogs in the unit too. Not sure how many kids go to UWV for their defense. Like you said, as good as TCU's been defensively, its still hard to stop offenses in that conference.

 

[Ish88888]

Still have to concider the jimmies and the joes. The scheme is only part of the factor. You need some dogs in the unit too. Not sure how many kids go to UWV for their defense. As good as TCU's been its still hard to stop offenses in that conference.

Very true, but they have had some nice athletes on that side of the ball over the years. They hold their own in the pass happy league they now play in.

 

[Shaggy1]

My take... After the depth chart deal...we see that we have backers that might move well and cover better. Zaire (and I loved him at SU) was not good in coverage. The new two deep has backers that can cover the middle deep and middle flat better and allow for more blitz/pressure from the corner or other safety. We will still run a lot of 4-3 and often it will essential be a 5 or 6 man front with DBs /LBs creeping up. No matter how you spell it, 4-3, old school 5-2, 3-5-3, 4-2-5; it all comes down to having your best players on the field to make plays. Dino and our DC are just adapting to put the best on the field.

 

[kcsu]

Having a stout DL especially with what is sure to be a huge improvement from our DEs is what allows this to work

 

[kcsu]

The opposing OL wont have the luxury of getting to our LBs

 

[shu 49]

WVU has run the 4-2-5 as their base. They have done OK with it in the B12, but by no means have been dominant. That said the B12 has some of the most prolific offenses in cfb.

Don’t they run 3-3-5?

 

[PhatOrange]

My take... After the depth chart deal...we see that we have backers that might move well and cover better. Zaire (and I loved him at SU) was not good in coverage. The new two deep has backers that can cover the middle deep and middle flat better and allow for more blitz/pressure from the corner or other safety. We will still run a lot of 4-3 and often it will essential be a 5 or 6 man front with DBs /LBs creeping up. No matter how you spell it, 4-3, old school 5-2, 3-5-3, 4-2-5; it all comes down to having your best players on the field to make plays. Dino and our DC are just adapting to put the best on the field.

Well said

 

[Ish88888]

Don’t they run 3-3-5?

Right, you are! Which is even crazier but they do have 3 backers on the field at least to play at the LOS if needed.

 

[Digable5]

It kind of makes sense of all of the safety recruits. I’m not against the 4-2-5 base defense, but when the Buffalo Bills tried to do it, they got run all over. Having Keilan Whitner and Antwan Cordy on the field will make an already undersized formation ridiculously small.

I haven’t had a lot of faith in Brian Ward or his Tampa 2. This change certainly concerns me, but in Dino I Trust.

 

[sdhall01]

It kind of makes sense of all of the safety recruits. I’m not against the 4-2-5 base defense, but when the Buffalo Bills tried to do it, they got run all over. Having Keilan Whitner and Antwan Cordy on the field will make an already undersized formation ridiculously small.

I haven’t had a lot of faith in Brian Ward or his Tampa 2. This change certainly concerns me, but in Dino I Trust.

Yeah, Whitner is the part of this that I genuinely don’t understand. Why wouldn’t they just put him in the rotation at nickel? I like Whitner as a player, but he wasn’t a great safety and cannot possibly be the best at any of the linebacker positions. Maybe they are seeing how hard he’ll scratch and claw to hold onto his starting spot?

 

[SmilinBob]

Yeah, Whitner is the part of this that I genuinely don’t understand. Why wouldn’t they just put him in the rotation at nickel? I like Whitner as a player, but he wasn’t a great safety and cannot possibly be the best at any of the linebacker positions. Maybe they are seeing how hard he’ll scratch and claw to hold onto his starting spot?

Didn't Whitner play LB last year? I think he is a swing player that can play SS or LB depending on the circumstances. To be honest, the labels of the positions to me is moot, just get guys out there that can stop the other team.

I'd have to believe Ward will break in the younger LB's more gradually by doing this process. When they play the more smashmouth teams they should be ready as they have said they are going to sub a lot more this year.
My biggest worry is the LB's not learning coverage as well as they should in their trial by fire.

 

[money3189]

Yeah, Whitner is the part of this that I genuinely don’t understand. Why wouldn’t they just put him in the rotation at nickel? I like Whitner as a player, but he wasn’t a great safety and cannot possibly be the best at any of the linebacker positions. Maybe they are seeing how hard he’ll scratch and claw to hold onto his starting spot?

Whitner has 76 career tackles, lots of experience, hard worker and has a good chance to be a captain. They have pushed out many players. He wouldnt be here if they thought he couldnt play.

 

[Digable5]

Didn't Whitner play LB last year? I think he is a swing player that can play SS or LB depending on the circumstances. To be honest, the labels of the positions to me is moot, just get guys out there that can stop the other team.

I'd have to believe Ward will break in the younger LB's more gradually by doing this process. When they play the more smashmouth teams they should be ready as they have said they are going to sub a lot more this year.
My biggest worry is the LB's not learning coverage as well as they should in their trial by fire.

Whitner did play LB. By bringing him up I'm not questioning his ability to play the position, I am questioning the decision to play a 4-2-5 formation when one of your starting LBs is 6'0" 215 and your nickel CB is 5'8" 177.
They are "playing small" just by taking a LB off the field, but when the players in these positions are even smaller than average its an additional concern (for me anyway).

I think Cordy will do a great job, especially covering guys like Sean Riley, in the slot. He plays bigger than his size when he comes up to defend the run in the open field. But, if he's going to be closer to the line of scrimmage, he could be easily pushed around at the line on run plays.

Whitner being a former Safety should be one of our better cover LBs. Against a quick passing team like ourselves, it should be very effective. However, if we trot out the 4-2-5 defense, especially at our current size, the opposing offense can run the ball at will and keep us from making substitutions. I saw it with the Bills.

Again, I am happy to be wrong, and trust Babers, but I am definitely concerned. In the future, when we have tall and rangy LBs that are 6'4" 227 like Richards it could be different. Having safeties like Cam Jonas 6'1" 209 is going to help. CBs like Trill at 6'2" 202 is amazing no matter what defense you run. Maybe they've always wanted to run this defense, it did seem like they were recruiting for the transition, but is this season going to be a painful first year? And, can Babers withstand another year of not winning because of his defense?

 

[sdhall01]

Whitner has 76 career tackles, lots of experience, hard worker and has a good chance to be a captain. They have pushed out many players. He wouldnt be here if they thought he couldnt play.

Yeah, again, I don’t have anything against him. Im just really surprised that they have him starting at the linebacker position when we have players that Babers and co. recruited specifically for that position. Furthermore, he isnt particularly experienced. He has the same LB experience as Tyrell Richards, Nadarius Fagan, and the JUCOs.

He also isn’t particularly big. He seemed more like a nickel, which would seem to make a lot of sense given his background. Regardless, I can’t wait to be proven wrong.

 

[upperdeck]

Why would the media guide even mention this is happening? Wouldnt this be something you really dont do in the open so teams have less time to plan against it? maybe its all slight of hand. tell teams we are switching when we really arent?

 

[PhatOrange]

Whitner did play LB. By bringing him up I'm not questioning his ability to play the position, I am questioning the decision to play a 4-2-5 formation when one of your starting LBs is 6'0" 215 and your nickel CB is 5'8" 177.
They are "playing small" just by taking a LB off the field, but when the players in these positions are even smaller than average its an additional concern (for me anyway).

I think Cordy will do a great job, especially covering guys like Sean Riley, in the slot. He plays bigger than his size when he comes up to defend the run in the open field. But, if he's going to be closer to the line of scrimmage, he could be easily pushed around at the line on run plays.

Whitner being a former Safety should be one of our better cover LBs. Against a quick passing team like ourselves, it should be very effective. However, if we trot out the 4-2-5 defense, especially at our current size, the opposing offense can run the ball at will and keep us from making substitutions. I saw it with the Bills.

Again, I am happy to be wrong, and trust Babers, but I am definitely concerned. In the future, when we have tall and rangy LBs that are 6'4" 227 like Richards it could be different. Having safeties like Cam Jonas 6'1" 209 is going to help. CBs like Trill at 6'2" 202 is amazing no matter what defense you run. Maybe they've always wanted to run this defense, it did seem like they were recruiting for the transition, but is this season going to be a painful first year? And, can Babers withstand another year of not winning because of his defense?

Whats the alternative then ?

And who cares what happened in Buffalo. I never understood comparing pro teams to college teams

 

[PhatOrange]

Yeah, again, I don’t have anything against him. Im just really surprised that they have him starting at the linebacker position when we have players that Babers and co. recruited specifically for that position. Furthermore, he isnt particularly experienced. He has the same LB experience as Tyrell Richards, Nadarius Fagan, and the JUCOs.

He also isn’t particularly big. He seemed more like a nickel, which would seem to make a lot of sense given his background. Regardless, I can’t wait to be proven wrong.

What's your alternative ? The other LBs who are smaller?

 

[PhatOrange]

Have at it

Here's your LB Roster

Ryan Guthrie 6-2 - 224 SR. Cumming, Ga. / West Forsyth
Kielan Whitner 6-0 - 215 SR. Lawrenceville, Ga. / Mountain View

Andrew Armstrong 6-2 - 228 JR. Youngstown, Ohio / Cardinal Mooney
Shyheim Cullen 6-0 - 224 R-JR. Lowell, Mass. / Lowell
Lakiem Williams 6-0 - 234 JR. Tacoma, Wash. / Spanaway Lake

Tim Walton 6-2 - 232 R-SO. Detroit, Mich. / Cass Technical
Nadarius Fagan 6-1 - 213 SO. Goulds, Fla. / Miami Southridge

Kadeem Trotter 6-2 - 206 R-FR. Canton, Ohio / McKinley
Tyrell Richards 6-4 - 227 R-FR. Brampton, Ontario, Canada / Clarkson Secondary School

Tre Allison 6-2 - 230 FR. Tyler, Texas / John Tyler
Juan Wallace 6-2 - 215 FR. Washington, D.C. / IMG Academy (Fla.)

 

[money3189]

Yeah, again, I don’t have anything against him. Im just really surprised that they have him starting at the linebacker position when we have players that Babers and co. recruited specifically for that position. He also isn’t particularly big. He seemed more like a nickel, which would have made a lot of sense given his background. I’m genuinely worried that he is our best at the LB position given his lack of experience there (he has the same LB experience as Tyrell Richards, Nadarius Fagan, and the JUCOs) and his small stature I can’t wait to be wrong.

Whitner and Guthrie has worked hard to fight those guys off. I know their mental preparation and understanding of the scheme is way ahead of them. Maybe those guys a year away from putting it all together. I think the next group of LB's are guys like Williams, Shy and Army