48-26

[HoustonCuse]

Gee, it's almost like 2 of the guys expected to lead the team in rebounds are no longer with the team. I wonder if that has something to do with it. Red sure should have seen that coming.

We sucked on the boards even before losing them. It’s a systemic problem. Rebounding has to be taught, emphasized, and the players have to be instilled with a strong desire to do it. We have none of that. Bringing somebody onto the staff who can teach that and start showing players that it’s a priority is a first step. The staff can add a non recruiting coach for things like this.

 

[baggerbob]

We sucked on the boards even before losing them. It’s a systemic problem. Rebounding has to be taught, emphasized, and the players have to be instilled with a strong desire to do it. We have none of that. Bringing somebody onto the staff who can teach that and start showing players that it’s a priority is a first step. The staff can add a non recruiting coach for things like this.

You have 2 starting forwards one who doesn't have the ability to rebound at this level in Taylor. The other who is anemic to trying to rebound in Bell.
Unless that gets fixed for next year good luck with getting back into the top 25.
We used to have forwards who grabbed offensive rebounds and dunked.
Coleman, Owens, Wallace, Hak, Melo, and others.

 

[realorange]

I don't like playing "what if" but let's take a simplistic look at what might have been.

What if we hadn't lost Jesse to greed?

What if Benny had come close to living up to his athletic ability?

What if Taylor became what he was looking like last year as a 3 pt. shooter at even 35%?

Any one of these "what ifs" could have made a big difference this year.

What if we give Red a chance at putting down a base that has a chance at becoming what we all want to see.

 

[HoustonCuse]

I don't like playing "what if" but let's take a simplistic look at what might have been.

What if we hadn't lost Jesse to greed?

What if Benny had come close to living up to his athletic ability?

What if Taylor became what he was looking like last year as a 3 pt. shooter at even 35%?

Any one of these "what ifs" could have made a big difference this year.

What if we give Red a chance at putting down a base that has a chance at becoming what we all want to see.

I’m saying “what if we had someone who could coach our players up to improve their rebounding?”

I am not suggesting replacing Red. I like Red as HC. I’m talking about a skills coach or position coach whatever you want to call it. Like an S&C guy but for rebounding. That’s it.

 

[Longtimesu]

Really? A rebounding coach? That would solve the problem with a front court of guard height and Women’s diving weight? Our problem rebounding this year, to me, was summarized last night when Hima gave up a rebound on the missed free throw when we still had a chance. He was in a good position to box out but physically couldn’t hold it.
I lost my mind.

Roys Runts 1971-72 were the smallest team in college basketball but they rebounded with the best. And won a lot of games. Bob dooms the center was 6'5. He was the tallest player. When I played HS, 1963-65 our smallest player was 5'10, a guard. He was one of our best rebounders. Rebounding is all about, heart, and positioning.

 

[swish7]

I don't like playing "what if" but let's take a simplistic look at what might have been.

What if we hadn't lost Jesse to greed?

What if Benny had come close to living up to his athletic ability?

What if Taylor became what he was looking like last year as a 3 pt. shooter at even 35%?

Any one of these "what ifs" could have made a big difference this year.

What if we give Red a chance at putting down a base that has a chance at becoming what we all want to see.

As fans, we literally have no say in the 3 & likely 4ish years Red will get to right this ship. Our words here have no impact on ADJWs actions. So, not sure why you are adding the give Red a chance line.

He is having his chance right now and that will continue for 2-3 years more. Will be interested in how aggressive he addresses the numerous problems we have right now.

Given how he acted towards Benny's situations, I suspect he'll bring that same energy to every position & subordinate.

 

[Goin' Deep]

I'm not sure you can "teach" rebounding at this stage.
If you're recruiting forwards whom average 19 ppg and get 3 rebs a game in high school,
they're not all of the sudden getting 7 boards a game in college.
Rebounding is both a science AND a talent/behavior.
You gotta box out...time your leap...and have an idea what side of the rim/goal
that errant shot is coming off.

 

[FireballPhil]

This is why I keep saying we must bring in a rebounding guru coach. There is a cultural aspect that is simply missing from the DNA of this program. Not only are our current coaches incapable - yes, incapable - of teaching rebounding, they have the same cultural defect burned into them as they grew up in this program.

We need somebody like Kelvin Sampson or Tom Izzo (not them specifically, of course but somebody like them) who value the culture of toughness and rebounding to the point that it is the whole put football pads on and whoever comes out of the Thunderdome alive with the ball is the king. Hell even if they are dead - as long as their corpse falls to the ground in possession of the ball, we carry their name and legacy on in our lore for generations. We need somebody like that.

Go big or go home. Go get Dennis Rodman

 

[swish7]

Go big or go home. Go get Dennis Rodman

Or just watch the documentary on why he was so good at it. He explains his techniques. He was very scientific in his approach.

Dude had a chip on his shoulders.

And, finally, he was a national caliber track athlete, a fact I had never heard before. This probably aided his ability to jump & jump & jump multiple times tipping the ball to himself.

 

[Dcuse]

Roys Runts 1971-72 were the smallest team in college basketball but they rebounded with the best. And won a lot of games. Bob dooms the center was 6'5. He was the tallest player. When I played HS, 1963-65 our smallest player was 5'10, a guard. He was one of our best rebounders. Rebounding is all about, heart, and positioning.

You had to go back to Roy’s Runts to make your argument. Nuff said.

 

[billsin01]

Really? A rebounding coach? That would solve the problem with a front court of guard height and Women’s diving weight? Our problem rebounding this year, to me, was summarized last night when Hima gave up a rebound on the missed free throw when we still had a chance. He was in a good position to box out but physically couldn’t hold it.
I lost my mind.

That’s happened with bell and Benny quite a bit too the past couple years (Benny was a bit better with that this season).

 

[JarHeadJim]

Stevie Thompson was a 6'3" power forward. Paul Harris was 6'4". It's all. About hart and hustle.

 

[orangecuse]

We sucked on the boards even before losing them. It’s a systemic problem. Rebounding has to be taught, emphasized, and the players have to be instilled with a strong desire to do it. We have none of that. Bringing somebody onto the staff who can teach that and start showing players that it’s a priority is a first step. The staff can add a non recruiting coach for things like this.

I couldn't agree more that this a systemic & cultural issue. It's difficult to see otherwise and debate it intelligently when there has been one constant over all of these years, along with that constant's pupils that are currently in charge today.

Roys Runts 1971-72 were the smallest team in college basketball but they rebounded with the best. And won a lot of games. Bob dooms the center was 6'5. He was the tallest player. When I played HS, 1963-65 our smallest player was 5'10, a guard. He was one of our best rebounders. Rebounding is all about, heart, and positioning.

To Houston's points above & along with yours here, I completed agree.

Here is an exact quote of an NBA coach whose team possessed the best defense in the league last season, whose team is ranked high in D again this season, and currently sits at number 2 in the East standings.

“We got away from being who we are.” “If you want to win and win in this league at the level we hope to, you can’t do it if you don’t guard. Defense comes down to the effort you’re willing to put in. The second effort. The third effort. The fourth effort. Right now, we don’t have enough guys putting in that second, third and fourth effort.”

 

[djorange1989]

Red was the lead recruiter he brought in these guys. The talent evaluation is way off along with player development. And the lack of toughness other than Q is fatal in close games

In his defense, in the case of the non-portal guys on the roster, he was recruiting to Jim Boeheim’s archaic dying irrelevant program. He has to do much better in the portal this off-season, however, besides JJ we got nothing from it this season

 

[Longtimesu]

You had to go back to Roy’s Runts to make your argument. Nuff said.

I used an example of why

You had to go back to Roy’s Runts to make your argument. Nuff said.

I was not trying to prove a point to you. I was stating an opinion. Nuff said.

 

[realorange]

As fans, we literally have no say in the 3 & likely 4ish years Red will get to right this ship. Our words here have no impact on ADJWs actions. So, not sure why you are adding the give Red a chance line.

He is having his chance right now and that will continue for 2-3 years more. Will be interested in how aggressive he addresses the numerous problems we have right now.

Given how he acted towards Benny's situations, I suspect he'll bring that same energy to every position & subordinate.

That line was directed at some of the posters on this thread who don't seem to believe he should have more than the short end of the rope.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Stevie Thompson was a 6'3" power forward. Paul Harris was 6'4". It's all. About hart and hustle.

And vertical leap and strength also helps...

 

[M2MPrinciples]

We have effectively a 7-man team with five guards, two forwards and 0 centers. Any serious analysis of our rebounding issues has to start there.

Due to injuries and Benny's dismissal we don't have the flexibility to crash the glass hard and risk picking up fouls, especially in road games. That lack of depth has also forced us to play a lot of zone, which has NEVER been a recipe for putting up good defensive rebounding numbers.

I've said in multiple threads that expecting us to be an adequate rebounding team is a fool's errand and I stand by it.

But compounding the rebounding issues, particularly on the offensive side, is this: Most teams who don't send more than a couple guys to the offensive glass do so to try to limit transition opportunities. If you regularly have three guys back, you're not going to give up a lot of fast break points, at least in theory. Not only have we put up terrible defensive rebounding numbers, but our opponents have taken MORE of their shots in transition (defined as the first 10 seconds of a possession) than literally every team in D1. That's where Judah's poor gambling decisions and Chris's sulking shows up in the metrics - Not only are we not getting second chance opportunities, we're not even getting the benefit of making other teams run offense.

Hopefully Red brings in some size this summer and with an S&C program that can ensure they actually stay on the court and not get pushed around.

 

[sufandu]

This is why I keep saying we must bring in a rebounding guru coach. There is a cultural aspect that is simply missing from the DNA of this program. Not only are our current coaches incapable - yes, incapable - of teaching rebounding, they have the same cultural defect burned into them as they grew up in this program.

We need somebody like Kelvin Sampson or Tom Izzo (not them specifically, of course but somebody like them) who value the culture of toughness and rebounding to the point that it is the whole put football pads on and whoever comes out of the Thunderdome alive with the ball is the king. Hell even if they are dead - as long as their corpse falls to the ground in possession of the ball, we carry their name and legacy on in our lore for generations. We need somebody like that.

I don't know that you bring in a coach just for rebounding. It's a pretty basic skill that mostly requires effort and grit. I get what you're saying about culture, though. We've been soft for quite a while. We need to recruit some front court players with an attitude. A guy willing to brake a defender's arm when he tries to block his dun. Someone that believes the paint is his the way a pit bull guards his yard. A DC talent may not be realistic, but DC attitude with draftable talent would be great for us.

 

[baggerbob]

Stevie Thompson was a 6'3" power forward. Paul Harris was 6'4". It's all. About hart and hustle.

Bill Russell said 90% of the rebounds are below the rim. Timing and position are always the key.

 

[mayselc]

I'm hoping we get two Ryan Blackwell type years out of Copeland at the three and backing up the point. Add that in with improved rebounding from JJ and hopefully Westry, we will be greatly improved on the boards. With the amount of three point shot attempts these days, making your guards rebound instead of leaking out is the key to success. That's what makes a dependable half-court offense so valuable. Guys don't feel like they have to leak out to score. Desperately need a legit PG from the portal. Autry aught to be able to lock down a top-10 point guard for 2025.

 

[two3zone]

Stevie Thompson was a 6'3" power forward. Paul Harris was 6'4". It's all. About hart and hustle.

Paul Harris was built like you though, that’s some beef to get around.

 

[Cuse181]

Not an excuse, just reality. Have to roll with what you have, and the last guys standing are not good at rebounding. But let's not pretend the roster playing was how the roster was constructed in the off season.

The concept of fans who don't give the benefit of the doubt to their own guy (especially in Year 1) is weird to me. I'd be willing to bet Red, Gerry and company know where we need to get better and are doing everything they can to make that happen this year and beyond.

"It will be the same story next year." If you also have lottery numbers, we're all ears.

What? Yeah, the roster playing TODAY wasn't as constructed, but the roster was together at the beginning of the season and promptly got stomped by anyone with a pulse.

Its not about giving him the benefit of the doubt, its that there was 10 years of bad decisions made across the board and that was followed up by propping up someone who was here for those same 10 years. When a company destroys values for 10 years and you fire the CEO, you don't then hire the COO to take over and run the business, clearly they both were doing things wrong.

 

[Ragman2000]

... clearly they both were doing things wrong.

I don't think that's clear at all. I envy your black and white assessment of everything, it must make life a lot easier.

 

[grepal]

Seems like every year is the worst rebounding team in history

We are small. We look a lot better when the shots fall.