5 bubble seasons without competing for a conference title

[Bayside44]

You are wrong. The defense is the biggest problem. The way we recruit for it. Does anyone else see the center have to go to the corner to cover a 3 point shooter? And have the center actually pulled out of a game because he couldn't get to the corner??? And the lanky forwards that can't shoot? And making sure our lead guard is tall. Whether he is a pt guard or not. We were once a fast running team. We didn't win in the tournament. we lost some close games that in the last few years, we have won. That doesn't mean it is because of the zone. Our recruiting strategy has been all wrong for a number of years. The sanctions hurt badly. But G-mac shouldn't be up against the other schools Head coach. Period. I brought this up a few years ago and was slammed for it. I'm now 62 and I don't have the energy that I did when I was 42. Neither does JB. Plus, he has other things he wants to do. Watch Jamie play for example. I don't blame him one bit for that. But you can't have everything in life.

I thought you were much much older. Otherwise great post.

 

[syrBossHogg]

Basically all the ones that competed for the title in the Big East, IMO.

84,86-91, 94, 96, 00, 03, 04, 05, 10, 12.

That's also not even counting teams like 2014 even though they finished 2nd in the ACC. I think the 2009, 2011, 2013 teams could have competed for a title and placed top 5 at worst

 

[HOFCeluck]

That's also not even counting teams like 2014 even though they finished 2nd in the ACC. I think the 2009, 2011, 2013 teams could have competed for a title and placed top 5 at worst

I would honestly add 95, 98, 01, 09, 11, and 13 as years we “competed” for the Big East Title.

 

[Briancuse]

Next year is going to be worse as most likely Battle, Chukwu and maybe Oshae are gone and we know what’s replacing them

Where are battle and brissett going?

 

[IthacaMatt]

So now we’re comparing ourselves to Duke and UNC.

Also can’t really use a 43 year sample size and try to compare it to UVas 5 year sample size of being elite. Also UVA doesn’t recruit the same amount of high school All Americans.

Well, shouldn't we be? Sure, we may not have expected to supplant them at the top, but we expected to be no worse than 3rd or 4th in conference when we joined, and we have failed to meet that expectation. Sure Duke and UNC recruit better than we do, but we used to recruit better than we have done (hmmm, who was responsible for that?), and when did we ever lose 10 games in a season for something like 5 years in a row? (Answer, never before.) And don't forget, Boeheim's record against North Carolina and Duke was pretty good before we joined the conference.

You can't tell me that top-to-bottom, the ACC is better than the best years of the Big East, before it got watered down at the end. We have slipped from an "A" program to a "B" program. We need to get better.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Where are battle and brissett going?

At this point I wouldn’t be too upset if we had some surprising exits. I kind of want to see if guys like Washington, Goodine, Braswell, and Guerrier know how to shoot.

 

[SBU72]

You’re making excuses. Virginia doesn’t recruit McDonalds All Americans and they recruit for league titles. UNC had a couple years not recruiting them and won a Nationals Title will all 4 star recruits.

We should not be .500 every year.

I expect at least 11-13 ACC wins.

IMHO, your expectations are way out of line and you are doomed to dissappoinment. With the beginning of 20 game conference schedule, 11-13 wins might be realistic but will NOT put SU in contention. 7 to 9 losses probably would be lucky to in the top 4.

 

[Cusefan0307]

IMHO, your expectations are way out of line and you are doomed to dissappoinment. With the beginning of 20 game conference schedule, 11-13 wins might be realistic but will NOT put SU in contention. 7 to 9 losses probably would be lucky to in the top 4.

11-13 wins is a top 4 finish in an 18 game schedule. That’s what we won most years in the Big East with much tougher teams in the middle. The ACC was incredibly top heavy before they expanded. It was UNC and Duke versus everyone else. You’re making posts like we should happy being the Providence of the ACC.

 

[kingtidge]

Next year is going to be worse as most likely Battle, Chukwu and maybe Oshae are gone and we know what’s replacing them

Yeah, I don't think we're near rock bottom yet but we've been taking on water clearly, and the anchor is dropping fast.

I don't know how or if JB can turn this around but it doesn't look promising at all.

Is he bigger than the program?

Yup.

He is the program.

If he white knuckles holding on for the next 3 season's on this same trajectory, it will be terrible for his legacy.

I don't relish Wildhack's job in this scenario... He may have to pull the trigger on a separation that will be contentious and ugly.

Turning a bball program around is easier and can be done a lot faster than in football... With the right hire, of course... So there's that...

 

[HRE Otto IV]

It seems like all great HCs get to a point where they don’t want to deal with recruiting or star players. You see their teams with a bunch of team or role players. Coach K seemed to be heading that way too then a few years ago he woke up and starting getting Top kids again. Gotta give him credit.

 

[OrangeDW]

We’re basically late career John Chaney Temple.

Blah.

I’m bored.

 

[Briancuse]

Yeah, I don't think we're near rock bottom yet but we've been taking on water clearly, and the anchor is dropping fast.

I don't know how or if JB can turn this around but it doesn't look promising at all.

Is he bigger than the program?

Yup.

He is the program.

If he white knuckles holding on for the next 3 season's on this same trajectory, it will be terrible for his legacy.

I don't relish Wildhack's job in this scenario... He may have to pull the trigger on a separation that will be contentious and ugly.

Turning a bball program around is easier and can be done a lot faster than in football... With the right hire, of course... So there's that...

Getting your doors blown off by gt at home is pretty close.

 

[MSOrange]

We’re basically late career John Chaney Temple.

Blah.

I’m bored.

Well JB hasn't burst into a press conference threatening to kill John Calipari...yet

 

[orangecuse]

It seems like all great HCs get to a point where they don’t want to deal with recruiting or star players. You see their teams with a bunch of team or role players. Coach K seemed to be heading that way too then a few years ago he woke up and starting getting Top kids again. Gotta give him credit.

I don't how much it had to do with K "waking up" as much as it has to do with Duke being Duke, and because if it, and K, doesn't have to work really that hard to get these kids, more or less, a selector type school. Duke, traditionally, has always landed the top blue chippers, just look at its history, us, not so much. Just look at all of the Duke Mickey D's over the years comparatively.

Coach K always gets mentioned as the best coach in the game, and has for years. JB, on the other hand, although he is a Hall of Famer, and certainly built the Syracuse program nationally, doesn't get anywhere near the notoriety that K gets in the media, etc. So, all coach K really has to do, at least it seems that way, is just say, hey Barrett, Reddish, whomever, etc., we want you, and it happens, not to mention all of those national championships K has under his belt.

If JB did disengage himself in recruiting during the last few years (when Hopkins was the coach in waiting/prior to taking the UW gig) because he was being made to retire, it certainly hurt the program. And SU, especially with JB's system and age, just hasn't been able to recover, even with JB's revitilized effort. Yeah, the sanctions also hurt us, so a combined double whammy blow at the time, but I'm one of those who is of the opinion that it wasn't the dagger as some folks here believe, but more on the head coach's laissez faire approach, along with the misses we had and the apparent missed evaluations of some of the guys we did land.

 

[SWC75]

We had a 155-28 stretch until "the night of the dreadful uniforms":

We are 97-67 since!

 

[orangecuse]

We had a 155-28 stretch until "the night of the dreadful uniforms":

View attachment 149897

We are 97-67 since!

And, as other posters have alluded to, how many of those W's were against considerably inferior teams in the OOC early season Dome type W's. When you look at our ACC record against our peers, at least the past 5 seasons, we are closer to the .500 range.

 

[SWC75]

And, as other posters have alluded to, how many of those W's were against considerably inferior teams in the OOC early season Dome type W's. When you look at our ACC record against our peers, at least the past 5 seasons, we are closer to the .500 range.

In the 155-28 stretch we were 91-37 against conference and NCAA tournament foes. In the 97-67 stretch we are 49-48 against conference and NCAA/NIT opposition.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Well, shouldn't we be? Sure, we may not have expected to supplant them at the top, but we expected to be no worse than 3rd or 4th in conference when we joined, and we have failed to meet that expectation. Sure Duke and UNC recruit better than we do, but we used to recruit better than we have done (hmmm, who was responsible for that?), and when did we ever lose 10 games in a season for something like 5 years in a row? (Answer, never before.) And don't forget, Boeheim's record against North Carolina and Duke was pretty good before we joined the conference.

You can't tell me that top-to-bottom, the ACC is better than the best years of the Big East, before it got watered down at the end. We have slipped from an "A" program to a "B" program. We need to get better.

Your last paragraph is the point I’m trying to make. We’re a tier below Duke or UNC but this league isn’t any better than the Big East circa 2004-2013 when we won it twice.

 

[Madbiker]

Come on. Don't take shots at Buddy. He's a kid, even if he is the coach's kid.
In our first two exhibitions, he looked like a new Andy Rautins, making 6 of 12 from three.
Yes, he has a lot of work to do in the gym, but the kid has a great stoke and played at the highest levels as a prep. He was a legit D1 recruit. He will win us games before he's done.

Buddy was recruited to play in this system and he will contribute more each year. But he would never be recruited to play by Roy Williams or Rick Pitino because he is too slow to fit their systems. Jimmy's all zone, slow offense system has hurt recruiting (other factors too). It's not going to change. I fear his last 3 years as coach will diminish his legacy as the team sinks.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Buddy was recruited to play in this system and he will contribute more each year. But he would never be recruited to play by Roy Williams or Rick Pitino because he is too slow to fit their systems. Jimmy's all zone, slow offense system has hurt recruiting (other factors too). It's not going to change. I fear his last 3 years as coach will diminish his legacy as the team sinks.

Luke Hancock and Kyle Kuric ring a bell?

 

[Madbiker]

Luke Hancock and Kyle Kuric ring a bell?

We can only dream Buddy gets to be as good as those guys.

 

[IthacaMatt]

At this point I wouldn’t be too upset if we had some surprising exits. I kind of want to see if guys like Washington, Goodine, Braswell, and Guerrier know how to shoot.

I don't think Howard Washington is going to be good enough to be better than a backup point guard here. Braswell is probably going to need another year. But Carey, Goodine, Guerrier and probably Brissett is going to be a pretty good core. I think by next year, Buddy will be able to contribute more as a zone buster off the bench. I don't think we have a good enough center. Carrigan would probably start over Sidibe for his defensive skill. I don't expect JBA to really be a contributor next year. I still think we need another big man.

 

[SWC75]

I mean thank goodness for the Final Four in 2016 and Sweet Sixteen in 2018 because outside of those 2 runs we are as medicore in the regular season as anybody.
JB doesn't need to change the defense but outside of that our program needs a major overhaul.

"The dogmas of the quiet past, are inadequate to the stormy present. The occasion is piled high with difficulty, and we must rise -- with the occasion. As our case is new, so we must think anew, and act anew. We must disenthrall ourselves, and then we shall save our country. "

 

[dasher]

I thought you were much much older. Otherwise great post.

Rat

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I don't how much it had to do with K "waking up" as much as it has to do with Duke being Duke, and because if it, and K, doesn't have to work really that hard to get these kids, more or less, a selector type school. Duke, traditionally, has always landed the top blue chippers, just look at its history, us, not so much. Just look at all of the Duke Mickey D's over the years comparatively.

Coach K always gets mentioned as the best coach in the game, and has for years. JB, on the other hand, although he is a Hall of Famer, and certainly built the Syracuse program nationally, doesn't get anywhere near the notoriety that K gets in the media, etc. So, all coach K really has to do, at least it seems that way, is just say, hey Barrett, Reddish, whomever, etc., we want you, and it happens, not to mention all of those national championships K has under his belt.

If JB did disengage himself in recruiting during the last few years (when Hopkins was the coach in waiting/prior to taking the UW gig) because he was being made to retire, it certainly hurt the program. And SU, especially with JB's system and age, just hasn't been able to recover, even with JB's revitilized effort. Yeah, the sanctions also hurt us, so a combined double whammy blow at the time, but I'm one of those who is of the opinion that it wasn't the dagger as some folks here believe, but more on the head coach's laissez faire approach, along with the misses we had and the apparent missed evaluations of some of the guys we did land.

In the past if you went to Duke you became a McD. Now Duke is getting kids who are McD legit.