5 bubble seasons without competing for a conference title

[Horn88]

Your last paragraph is the point I’m trying to make. We’re a tier below Duke or UNC but this league isn’t any better than the Big East circa 2004-2013 when we won it twice.

The universal thing about sports is the better you are the easier your schedule looks. Fact is we just haven't been very good the past few years so we have to resort to saying things like a double digit loss to a 10-6 GT team that lost to Gardner Webb at home is a product of a tougher ACC.

Our old teams from the BE wouldn't have a problem with much of the ACC the past few years and probably would have won a conference title or two. Some of those past UConn, Nova, Louisville, Georgetown, Pitt teams were just as good or better at the top of the conference than anyone we've seen in the ACC thus far.

 

[CousCuse]

5 bubble seasons without competing for a conference title. Whah, whah. I guess the kneecap job the NCAA did on the program didn't have anything to do with this run. And don't give me the drivel about how Syracuse was doing bad things and deserved this when most programs appear to be doing magnitudes of order worse things and getting off scott free.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Jeff Jones to the rescue

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

Its reality.

There isn't room for 4 at the top. UVA has taken that 3rd seat next to UNC and Duke (REGULAR SEASON ONLY.)

We are in that 4-8 crowd. I don't think its the worst place to be. Just a shame we finally got our best players to not leave for the NBA and they came back worse but there is still plenty of ball to play.

Enjoy the game tonight.

 

[CousCuse]

Jeff Jones to the rescue

Only someone with his resume and point of career could be able to deal with, and would subject themselves to the spoiled, entitled, tantrum fit throwing fans that Syracuse has. Do you think coaches don't see how a hall of fame coach and his son are treated? And Hopkins would have gotten the same disparagement if he stayed and moved up to head coach from being an assistant.

 

[shandeezy7]

Its reality.

There isn't room for 4 at the top. UVA has taken that 3rd seat next to UNC and Duke (REGULAR SEASON ONLY.)

We are in that 4-8 crowd. I don't think its the worst place to be. Just a shame we finally got our best players to not leave for the NBA and they came back worse but there is still plenty of ball to play.

Enjoy the game tonight.

How can you possibly think that we are in the 4-8 crowd in the ACC based on our results in the league so far?

2017-18: 11th place
2016-17: 9th place
2015-16: 10th place
2014-15: 8th place
2013-14: 2nd place

Take out that 2013-14 team that completely fizzled out at the end of the year, and we are solidly in the 8-12 crowd in the ACC, and trending in the wrong direction. Not a lot of reason for optimism.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Only someone with his resume and point of career could be able to deal with, and would subject themselves to the spoiled, entitled, tantrum fit throwing fans that Syracuse has. Do you think coaches don't see how a hall of fame coach and his son are treated? And Hopkins would have gotten the same disparagement if he stayed and moved up to head coach from being an assistant.

I was agreeing with you. All fans need to do is see that 2016 Vegas 16 championship ring and those entitled snowflakes will fall in line.

 

[HOFCeluck]

How can you possibly think that we are in the 4-8 crowd in the ACC based on our results in the league so far?

2017-18: 11th place
2016-17: 9th place
2015-16: 10th place
2014-15: 8th place
2013-14: 2nd place

Take out that 2013-14 team that completely fizzled out at the end of the year, and we are solidly in the 8-12 crowd in the ACC, and trending in the wrong direction. Not a lot of reason for optimism.

It’s also objectively wrong if you look at the top three in the ACC from 2015 to 18. Note Dame, Miami, and FSU have cracked the top three on multiple occasions.

 

[CousCuse]

I was agreeing with you. All fans need to do is see that 2016 Vegas 16 championship ring and those entitled snowflakes will fall in line.

Any coach that is super established and that the board brain trust would want knows that taking over for a LEGEND is fraught with downside. A few so-so years and the angry villagers would burn his house down. Why would someone want to risk that?

 

[SBU72]

11-13 wins is a top 4 finish in an 18 game schedule. That’s what we won most years in the Big East with much tougher teams in the middle. The ACC was incredibly top heavy before they expanded. It was UNC and Duke versus everyone else. You’re making posts like we should happy being the Providence of the ACC.

First of all, I said the 11 to 13 was a reach in the current schedule. And I am not saying that fans should be HAPPY with mid rank in the league, just be realistic in that SU may never be top 4 because unlike some want to think, in the past they would not have been there more that 1 third of the time.

 

[Sherman20]

As I said in another post just how many of JB's other teams would actually have competed in the ACC for conference titles.

What? Please explain.

 

[Sherman20]

Basically all the ones that competed for the title in the Big East, IMO.

84,86-91, 94, 96, 00, 03, 04, 05, 10, 12.

Throw 98, 99, 09, 01, 11, 13 and a few others in there where we competed in the top 4-5 of the conference, so we were in the hunt for the title those years. Made Big East tourney championship games in both 09 and 13.

 

[OHIORANGES]

Where are battle and brissett going?

Antarctica

 

[Cusefan0307]

First of all, I said the 11 to 13 was a reach in the current schedule. And I am not saying that fans should be HAPPY with mid rank in the league, just be realistic in that SU may never be top 4 because unlike some want to think, in the past they would not have been there more that 1 third of the time.

We finished over .500 in the League 30 of 35 seasons from 1980 to 2014. The only seasons we were .500 or worse were 1981, 1982, 1997, 2006, and 2008. In 24 of those seasons we won more than 60% of our league games. We were top third in the league 2 out of every 3 years.

We've been .500 or worse before this year 3 of the past 4 seasons. This is not the same program. There's no way we should be under .500 against schools like Georgia Tech and NC State since we joined the conference, but here we are.

Ridiculous.

 

[Sherman20]

It seems like all great HCs get to a point where they don’t want to deal with recruiting or star players. You see their teams with a bunch of team or role players. Coach K seemed to be heading that way too then a few years ago he woke up and starting getting Top kids again. Gotta give him credit.

Bringing Capel in as his top assistant helped enormously. Capel had immediate stature. Great recruiter and had been a head coach at VCU and Oklahoma.

 

[Scooch]

It saddens me to read all these comments about the superiority of the ACC.

Puh-leeze.

The Big East was a monster conference for years and we were almost always at, or near, the top of it.

The recent incarnation of our offense is historically bad by SU standards. We haven't been in the top 75 nationally for points-per-game since 2012. We've been ranked 150+ for PPG four times since then. We can pull off some parlor tricks with the zone in the tourney, but over the long haul it's hard to win when you can't score. And we can't score.

I'd be willing to entertain that it's due to recruiting whiffs, early NBA exits, probation hangovers, and the like. Except I couldn't tell you what we're trying to do offensively if you threatened my life. Well, other than pass around the perimeter then play hero ball with 4 seconds on the shot clock. There is something horrifically broken with this offense.

 

[SWC75]

Three things need to be acknowledged before we look at a fourth:

1) We got hit with the probation which impacts a program during the investigation, during the probation and even afterwards because it can soil your program's reputation with the families of some recruits. You can argue about how much of an impact it was but you can't argue that it didn't have an impact.

2) We joined the ACC which is the strongest conference ever not because it's top teams are better than anybody else's top teams but because their bottom teams are better that anybody else's bottom teams. There are no games you can expect to win just because the other teams didn't have the talent to beat you. The middle teams would probably be contenders in any other conference.

3) the NCAA decided that the games in November and December, when teams are just getting organized, should matter, perhaps even more than conference games matter. For a strong program , any loss there becomes a "bad" loss. as a result we've had to tough up that portion of our schedule. the desire to continue playing some old Big East rivals also makes the pre-conference schedule more difficult.

#1-3 may simply mean that what we are experiencing is simply the new normal for SU basketball and fans need to lower their expectations to stay in touch with reality.

4) Maybe Jim Boeheim's age is showing. The recruiting may have declined. His strategies doesn't seem to be working as well as they once did. he may not relate to young players as well any more. Maybe it's time for a change.

Let's see how this thing plays out before drawing conclusions. Saturday was ugly and tonight could be uglier but you never want to judge a team at it's best or at it's worst.

 

[CousCuse]

It saddens me to read all these comments about the superiority of the ACC.

Puh-leeze.

The Big East was a monster conference for years and we were almost always at, or near, the top of it.

The recent incarnation of our offense is historically bad by SU standards. We haven't been in the top 75 nationally for points-per-game since 2012. We've been ranked 150+ for PPG four times since then. We can pull off some parlor tricks with the zone in the tourney, but over the long haul it's hard to win when you can't score. And we can't score.

I'd be willing to entertain that it's due to recruiting whiffs, early NBA exits, probation hangovers, and the like. Except I couldn't tell you what we're trying to do offensively if you threatened my life. Well, other than pass around the perimeter then play hero ball with 4 seconds on the shot clock. There is something horrifically broken with this offense.

The 4th year, returning starting senior point guards ankle.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Three things need to be acknowledged before we look at a fourth:

1) We got hit with the probation which impacts a program during the investigation, during the probation and even afterwards because it can soil your program's reputation with the families of some recruits. You can argue about how much of an impact it was but you can't argue that it didn't have an impact.

2) We joined the ACC which is the strongest conference ever not because it's top teams are better than anybody else's top teams but because their bottom teams are better that anybody else's bottom teams. There are no games you can expect to win just because the other teams didn't have the talent to beat you. The middle teams would probably be contenders in any other conference.

3) the NCAA decided that the games in November and December, when teams are just getting organized, should matter, perhaps even more than conference games matter. For a strong program , any loss there becomes a "bad" loss. as a result we've had to tough up that portion of our schedule. the desire to continue playing some old Big East rivals also makes the pre-conference schedule more difficult.

#1-3 may simply mean that what we are experiencing is simply the new normal for SU basketball and fans need to lower their expectations to stay in touch with reality.

4) Maybe Jim Boeheim's age is showing. The recruiting may have declined. His strategies doesn't seem to be working as well as they once did. he may not relate to young players as well any more. Maybe it's time for a change.

Let's see how this thing plays out before drawing conclusions. Saturday was ugly and tonight could be uglier but you never want to judge a team at it's best or at it's worst.

Georgia Tech and NC State haven't been any better than Providence and Seton Hall since we joined the conference.

 

[SBU72]

Three things need to be acknowledged before we look at a fourth:

1) We got hit with the probation which impacts a program during the investigation, during the probation and even afterwards because it can soil your program's reputation with the families of some recruits. You can argue about how much of an impact it was but you can't argue that it didn't have an impact.

2) We joined the ACC which is the strongest conference ever not because it's top teams are better than anybody else's top teams but because their bottom teams are better that anybody else's bottom teams. There are no games you can expect to win just because the other teams didn't have the talent to beat you. The middle teams would probably be contenders in any other conference.

3) the NCAA decided that the games in November and December, when teams are just getting organized, should matter, perhaps even more than conference games matter. For a strong program , any loss there becomes a "bad" loss. as a result we've had to tough up that portion of our schedule. the desire to continue playing some old Big East rivals also makes the pre-conference schedule more difficult.

#1-3 may simply mean that what we are experiencing is simply the new normal for SU basketball and fans need to lower their expectations to stay in touch with reality.

4) Maybe Jim Boeheim's age is showing. The recruiting may have declined. His strategies doesn't seem to be working as well as they once did. he may not relate to young players as well any more. Maybe it's time for a change.

Let's see how this thing plays out before drawing conclusions. Saturday was ugly and tonight could be uglier but you never want to judge a team at it's best or at it's worst.

There has been the an oft repeated argument by some of the faithful that SU should be considered an elite program. Despite what many want to believe SU is NOT a destination school for either coaches or players. Just look at the number of McDonald's AA SU has had compared to many other schools. Of course those faithful try to blame JB but in his prime I don't think he had more than 2 on the roster at one time. (could be very well wrong) It will be interesting to see who SU gets when he retires now that they don't have a coach in waiting. Can they attract a big name coach? Are they willing to pay him? How far down the rung will they have to go to be able to get an up and coming coach and then how long will they be able to keep him if he succeeds.

 

[orangecuse]

The 4th year, returning starting senior point guards ankle.

Made him go from this:

To this:

 

[Scooch]

The 4th year, returning starting senior point guards ankle.

Yeah, that was a big problem in 2015.

/eyeroll

 

[CousCuse]

Made him go from this:

To this:

You need to photoshop Frank's jersey onto that sloth.

 

[Cusefan0307]

There has been the an oft repeated argument by some of the faithful that SU should be considered an elite program. Despite what many want to believe SU is NOT a destination school for either coaches or players. Just look at the number of McDonald's AA SU has had compared to many other schools. Of course those faithful try to blame JB but in his prime I don't think he had more than 2 on the roster at one time. (could be very well wrong) It will be interesting to see who SU gets when he retires now that they don't have a coach in waiting. Can they attract a big name coach? Are they willing to pay him? How far down the rung will they have to go to be able to get an up and coming coach and then how long will they be able to keep him if he succeeds.

The number of McDonalds All Americans don't mean crap. Villanova and Virginia have won without them and we used to as well as I stated in the post responding to you above.

 

[Sherman20]

There has been the an oft repeated argument by some of the faithful that SU should be considered an elite program. Despite what many want to believe SU is NOT a destination school for either coaches or players. Just look at the number of McDonald's AA SU has had compared to many other schools. Of course those faithful try to blame JB but in his prime I don't think he had more than 2 on the roster at one time. (could be very well wrong) It will be interesting to see who SU gets when he retires now that they don't have a coach in waiting. Can they attract a big name coach? Are they willing to pay him? How far down the rung will they have to go to be able to get an up and coming coach and then how long will they be able to keep him if he succeeds.

This assertion is refuted by JB’s own remarks on the subject, including things he’s said in the past few weeks. He always talks about how this is a very good job in part because of what a great and loyal fan base we have in upstate New York. As someone else said on this thread, we outdraw many NBA franchises in attendance.