#8 Football Factory - Video Link

[SUFaninNJ]

200 players in the hall of fame and only 1 full time kicker. Don't be holding your breath waiting for the next kicker to go in anytime soon if ever!

I'm not holding my breath. I'm just saying that more kickers will get elected. I just think it's shortsighted of you to think that the HOF won't elect anymore kickers.

 

[Jeepers]

We may not end up with the best IPF in the country, but I wish we'd try our hardest to have the best hall of heroes (whatever you want to call it). Every recruit should leave knowing our deep history.

 

[SUFaninNJ]

We may not end up with the best IPF in the country, but I wish we'd try our hardest to have the best hall of heroes (whatever you want to call it). Every recruit should leave knowing our deep history.

It's a pretty cool set up. Check it out if you get the chance.

 

[Stern]

I'm not holding my breath. I'm just saying that more kickers will get elected. I just think it's shortsighted of you to think that the HOF won't elect anymore kickers.

If they haven't elected any more why do you think they are going to start now out of the blue? It ain't happening!

 

[SUFaninNJ]

If they haven't elected any more why do you think they are going to start now out of the blue? It ain't happening!

I'd say they are because they're on the team and because they're eligible. If they weren't useful, I'd imagine teams would go for two after every TD and abandon field goals as well. I'm done with this stupid argument, by the way. Not sure why you can't just accept that we have a difference of opinion and leave it at that instead of your insistence that your opinion on this is gospel. I'm guessing a kicker must've done you wrong at some point in your life. Good luck with that.

 

[Stern]

I'd say they are because they're on the team and because they're eligible. If they weren't useful, I'd imagine teams would go for two after every TD and abandon field goals as well. I'm done with this stupid argument, by the way. Not sure why you can't just accept that we have a difference of opinion and leave it at that instead of your insistence that your opinion on this is gospel. I'm guessing a kicker must've done you wrong at some point in your life. Good luck with that.

Because there have been better kickers both Anderson's in the 70's, 80's, and 90's that haven't got in the hall of fame. The voters don't put kickers in (or punters)...to think that will magically change is foolish. Both Anderson's have been eligible for years...neither have made the final cut to even be voted on, let alone gotten in and it isn't changing anytime soon. If they aren't even allowed to be voted on they aren't getting in!

You want to agree to disagree...but you can't agree to disagree when someone says a nickle is worth more than a dime.

 

[sufandu]

He is about 40 sacks shy of where he needs to be. I don't see him getting in

Took Chris Doleman forever to get in and he had 150 sacks. Strahan is at 150 and he didn't get in this past year. Freeney at 107 sacks needs about 40 more and at his age and only being a situational player these days I don't see it happening.

Freeney would need to first get near 150 sacks. Then wait in line behind guys like Strahan, Jason Taylor, Kevin Greene ..etc...etc. Ain't happening. Freeney isn't getting in.

He almost has the record for most forced fumbles. That'll help his cause if he gets that.

 

[OrangePA]

Lock...ha ha ha!! Yeah good luck with that. Only with 107 sacks he isn't even close to being considered. He needs 135+ to even get in the debate. Guys with better numbers and those same awards aren't in the Hall of Fame.

Freeney isn't getting in!!

With all due respect, your track record in assessing SU Football should not cause Dwight too much concern.

BTW. Did you get season tix this year?

Or am I going to have the chance to bust on you again for the 2013 season??

Just kidding Stern. Just kidding.

 

[Stern]

With all due respect, your track record in assessing SU Football should not cause Dwight too much concern.

Hows that Big East (or whatever its called now) TV contract in the country coming which you proclaimed would be one of the best if not the best in all of the country. Ya know because that conference stretches coast to coast..ha ha ha

That gave us all a nice laugh!

 

[OrangePA]

Hows that Big East (or whadevelopss called now) TV contract in the country coming which you proclaimed would be one of the best if not the best in all of the country. Ya know because that conference stretches coast to coast..ha ha ha

That gave us all a nice laugh!

The concept that I was addressing fell apart.

The model that was developed - a coast to coast conference with TV available during the entire college game day - was never given a chance.

That's because Maryland and Rutgers left for the Big Ten.

So the concept was not disproven.

Though I never said that the TV contract would be the largest college football contract - I do think it would have eventually developed quite well.

I still think the AAC will - if given a chance - succeed.

I also predicted the SU move to the ACC and agreed with those who felt Marrone was doing a great job at SU.

And I didn't announce that I was giving up my season tix.

Indeed I didn't try to essentially protest my football program in the silly way you did.

So, tell us - we're dying to know!!!

Did you purchase season tix this year or are you still protesting?

 

[Stern]

And I didn't announce that I was giving up my season tix.

Indeed I didn't try to essentially protest my football program in the silly way you did.

So, tell us - we're dying to know!!!

Did you purchase season tix this year or are you still protesting?

I didn't "protest"the football program. I went to every home game last year except one. Talk about making stuff up and misrepresenting facts.

I am not going to explain for the 5,432,983,453rd time.

 

[Stern]

The concept that I was addressing fell apart.

The model that was developed - a coast to coast conference with TV available during the entire college game day - was never given a chance.

That's because Maryland and Rutgers left for the Big Ten.

So the concept was not disproven.

It was never given a chance because it was an utter flop of an idea with 3rd rate schools. Yet you believed it would get the biggest TV deal in america up there with the SEC and Big 10.

Laughable then and laughable now. It wasn't given a chance for good reason! lol

 

[sutomcat]

Jason Taylor has better numbers than Freeney across the board and even if Dwight plays 2 more years that won't change. JT has More Sacks, INT's, forced fumbles, passes defended, and TD's. Numbers are clearly on JT's side. Plus JT was 4 time All Pro while Dwight was only 3 time All Pro. Plus JT has an NFL Defensive player of the year award, Dwight doesn't! It's not even a close comparison in reality.

Kevin Green has 160 sacks. That's insane! Dwight at 107 has a lot of catching up to do if he wants to get in before Green.

Hall of Fame is all about numbers and Dwight's don't stack up. He will be in the debate and in consideration...he just isn't getting in.

A couple of things...

Let's not confuse the issue by including linebackers in your argument. Greene played linebacker, he is irrelevant in a discussion about DEs.

Taylor had a great career and is in fact a lock for the HOF. Like Dwight, he was a first team all pro 3 times. Made the Pro Bowl 6 times, Dwight has already done this 7 times.

His numbers are better than Dwight's right now but in fairness, you are comparing a player who played to the age of 37 to a player who just turned 33. If you compare Dwight's numbers to Taylor's numbers as of the age of 32, Dwight actually has more sacks (107.5 to 106).

Of course, Taylor played on losing teams his entire career and never played in a playoff game (Dwight has already played in 17).

So while Freeney's numbers are better than Taylor's, you have to look at more than that when comparing football players. Teams routinely changed their offenses when playing against Freeney. He was the most feared and dominant pass rusher of his time, the fastest DE of all time. His teams have won a ton of games. He revolutionalized the DE position.

Taylor was a very good DE who played on a ton of losing teams. Was he a difference maker like Dwight was? I don't believe so.

The one thing Taylor has going in his favor is that he finished his career really well. getting 33.5 sacks in his last 5 seasons. Dwight doesn't need to do that but he needs to get to around 130 sacks to become an absolute lock for the HOF. He is close right now but a couple more good years would really cement his chances.

 

[Stern]

A couple of things...

Let's not confuse the issue by including linebackers in your argument. Greene played linebacker, he is irrelevant in a discussion about DEs.



Of course, Taylor played on losing teams his entire career and never played in a playoff game (Dwight has already played in 17).

-Taylor was in an AFC Championship game with the Jets and played in multiple playoff games in Miami in the late 90's and early 2000's. You got the facts totally wrong. Another fact you have wrong is he was All Pro 4 times to Dwight's 3. Has him beat there

-Sack totals are sack totals, the Hall really doesn't distinguish a difference between LB's and DE's in that regard.

 

[OrangePA]

It was never given a chance because it was an utter flop of an idea with 3rd rate schools. Yet you believed it would get the biggest TV deal in america up there with the SEC and Big 10.

Laughable then and laughable now. It wasn't given a chance for good reason! lol

Stern - At least get the facts right.

I never predicted that the TV contract would rival that of the Big Ten or SEC. I recall observing that by having Dallas, Houston, San Diego, and other large TV markets the concept would attract eyeballs. I never predicted the size of the contract.

So, again, you have to be fair - you can't misrepresent.

When SMU, Houston, SD State, Boise State, Central Florida, South Florida, Cincinnati, Louisville, Rutgers, UConn and the rest came up with the national conference expansion idea it was quite valid. Indeed, a lot of smart people liked the idea and agreed to embrace it.

They did not see Rutgers and MD going to the Big Ten when they agreed upon the expanded BE Football Conference.

Sorry Stern but I don't think it's correct to refer to those schools as "3rd rate schools" and I was and remain willing to go along with the thoughts of those schools than seriously consider your point of view. Had the plan been given time to develope, I think eventually it would have done well.

You never answered my question - are you getting season tix this year or are you protesting the program again?

And one other question. Did you attend SU or some other school?

 

[OrangePA]

A couple of things...

Let's not confuse the issue by including linebackers in your argument. Greene played linebacker, he is irrelevant in a discussion about DEs.

Taylor had a great career and is in fact a lock for the HOF. Like Dwight, he was a first team all pro 3 times. Made the Pro Bowl 6 times, Dwight has already done this 7 times.

His numbers are better than Dwight's right now but in fairness, you are comparing a player who played to the age of 37 to a player who just turned 33. If you compare Dwight's numbers to Taylor's numbers as of the age of 32, Dwight actually has more sacks (107.5 to 106).

Of course, Taylor played on losing teams his entire career and never played in a playoff game (Dwight has already played in 17).

So while Freeney's numbers are better than Taylor's, you have to look at more than that when comparing football players. Teams routinely changed their offenses when playing against Freeney. He was the most feared and dominant pass rusher of his time, the fastest DE of all time. His teams have won a ton of games. He revolutionalized the DE position.

Taylor was a very good DE who played on a ton of losing teams. Was he a difference maker like Dwight was? I don't believe so.

The one thing Taylor has going in his favor is that he finished his career really well. getting 33.5 sacks in his last 5 seasons. Dwight doesn't need to do that but he needs to get to around 130 sacks to become an absolute lock for the HOF. He is close right now but a couple more good years would really cement his chances.

I think Tomcat makes the most valid point - Freeney dictated play - he forced offenses to scheme around him.

He was a dominant NFL player - the dominant defensive player on one of the best teams of his generation - lots of wins, lots of play-off appearances and a Super Bowl Championship.

Freeney is much more LT than Kevin Greene or the other players Stern mentions.

 

[OrangePA]

I didn't "protest"the football program. I went to every home game last year except one. Talk about making stuff up and misrepresenting facts.

I am not going to explain for the 5,432,983,453rd time.

Stern - Please.

I didn't make this up.

You were the one who announced publicly that you were giving up your season tickets.

You thought the world should know what you were doing.

And you did so because as you explained, you wanted to make clear your dislike for the Program/Athletic Department.

You didn't mention in your announcement that it was all just a sham - that you actually planned to attend the games.

So, I guess in retrospect it was all just an indulgent fabrication on your part.

Truly weird.

So, what are you doing this year? The world wants to know!

 

[shandeezy7]

-Taylor was in an AFC Championship game with the Jets and played in multiple playoff games in Miami in the late 90's and early 2000's. You got the facts totally wrong. Another fact you have wrong is he was All Pro 4 times to Dwight's 3. Has him beat there

-Sack totals are sack totals, the Hall really doesn't distinguish a difference between LB's and DE's in that regard.

Jason Taylor played in 9 playoff games in his career. Great. In those 9 playoff games, he amassed 33 tackles, 0 (ZERO) sacks, 0 (ZERO) forced fumbles and 0 (ZERO) fumble recoveries.

Dwight Freeney has played in 16 playoff games in his career so far. In those games, he has 35 tackles, 9 sacks, 2 forced fumbles and 1 fumble recovery. Oh, and a Super Bowl ring to boot.

And you're facts are also totally wrong. Both Dwight and Taylor were 1st Team All-Pro 3 times and 2nd Team All-Pro once. Their careers have been almost identical. Both were on the 2000's all decade team. Taylor has slightly higher sack and tackle numbers, but Dwight has a Super Bowl ring and was actually a difference maker in the playoffs.

 

[Stern]

Stern - Please.

I didn't make this up.

You were the one who announced publicly that you were giving up your season tickets.

You thought the world should now what you were doing.

I said it ONCE as it came up in a discussion in a topic of conversation. You are the one who keeps bringing it up week after week now going on over a year later!!

I also stated then and now I would go to every game last year (minus one) and continue to go to every game every year.

And you did so because as you explained, you wanted to make clear your dislike for the Program/Athletic Department.

And that is 100% a lie. That's not why I got rid of them. Not even close to the reason now you are just making stuff up. Thankfully these posts are all archived on this site and you can go back and read first hand why I got rid of them since you seem to care that much.

 

[Stern]

And you're facts are also totally wrong. Both Dwight and Taylor were 1st Team All-Pro 3 times and 2nd Team All-Pro once. Their careers have been almost identical. Both were on the 2000's all decade team. Taylor has slightly higher sack and tackle numbers, but Dwight has a Super Bowl ring and was actually a difference maker in the playoffs.

Slightly higher sack total...uh no. Much higher sack total.

Taylor has a NFL Defensive player of the year award as well, highest honor a defensive player can get in this league. Dwight doesn't.

 

[OrangePA]

I said it ONCE as it came up in a discussion in a topic of conversation. You are the one who keeps bringing it up week after week now going on over a year later!!

I also stated then and now I would go to every game last year (minus one) and continue to go to every game every year.




And that is 100% a lie. That's not why I got rid of them. Not even close to the reason now you are just making stuff up. Thankfully these posts are all archived on this site and you can go back and read first hand why I got rid of them since you seem to care that much.

I see.

So, while somone was talking about who might be our best LB or whether we would beat Rutgers, you decided to announce to us that you got rid of your season tix because you were happy with the Athletic Department?

Weird.

I gather you still do not have season tix?

And one other thing.

Did you attend Syracuse University or some other university?

 

[Stern]

Stern - At least get the facts right.


When SMU, Houston, SD State, Boise State, Central Florida, South Florida, Cincinnati, Louisville, Rutgers, UConn and the rest came up with the national conference expansion idea it was quite valid. Indeed, a lot of smart people liked the idea and agreed to embrace it.

YOU CAN'T BE SERIOUS!!! The idea was laughed at by all from coast to cast which is why it fell apart overnight! It was a joke.

It was a bunch of desperate schools grasping at anything and not a good idea which was embraced. You can't be serious!

 

[Stern]

I see.

So, you announced to us that you got rid of your season tix because you were happy with the Athletic Department?

Weird.

I gather you still do not have season tix?

And one other thing. Did you attend Syracuse University or some other university?

I am not playing this game with you answering your questions derailing this thread any longer.

If you want to know why I gave them up...go back and read the posts. I have gone over this a hundred times with you, not doing it again...a year later no less!!

 

[OrangePA]

YOU CAN'T BE SERIOUS!!! The idea was laughed at by all from coast to cast which is why it fell apart overnight! It was a joke.

It was a bunch of desperate schools grasping at anything and not a good idea which was embraced. You can't be serious!

Well apparently the idiot administrators at Boise State, SD State, SMU, University of Houston, et. al. didn't laugh it off.

They apparently thought it was a good idea.

But they apparently know so much less than you do, right?

Seriously Stern. You are so negative about stuff relating to SU Football.

Do you every get tired of having yourself around?

 

[OrangePA]

I am not playing this game with you answering your questions derailing this thread any longer.

If you want to know why I gave them up...go back and read the posts. I have gone over this a hundred times with you, not doing it again...a year later no less!!

I know why you supposedly gave up the tix - you told me - you were angry with the Athletic Department.

I don't need anymore answers on that issue - you told me that were angry.

So, just answer one question.

Since you seem to know so much about the quality of universities across the US, tell us - did you attend SU or did you attend some other school?