A different take on this "rivalry" question

[kuethstheman]

but Louisville did

UL is close but not the same. Sure we want to beat them but the energy in the dome this year when Louisville came to town wasn't half of what it is for UConn and Georgetown.

 

[HoustonCuse]

It's just basketball. Dragging all this other stuff into serves nothing. I never considered Pitt a true member of the Big East since they carpetbagged in a year later. That didn't stop them from having fun playing in the sandbox. Yes there are still hard feelings and very different viewpoints in the south dating back to the Civil War. Everyone has their viewpoint. But this is a sport where both teams are playing by the same rules on the same court. The scoreboard still settles all arguments. I am fine having Louisville as our main rival. Yes they have Kentucky, but that is totally different being a non-conference rivalry. It's not like Duke and UNC will refuse to play us. We got both of them at home this year so the powers that be in the ACC are not starting off like they plan to treat us poorly.

 

[GonzoInMD]

They don't have to like us, they just have to respect us!

 

[RealSUFan]

We aren't exactly thrilled to be playing with them either, but if that's in the cards I don't feel any guilt about breaking up their "exclusive" southern redneck league. Who cares what the Dukes of Hazzard think about us or our arrival in their league. We'll do our talking by beating them.

 

[MikeSU02]

Spent time yesterday with a very intelligent and accomplished woman who is a serious sports fan. She's a grad of UNC; her husband is a grad of UVA and their son is a student student athlete at Clemson in s non-revenue sport.

She is very unhappy about "the invasion" of the traditional ACC by "all these foreign teams." She said Miami, FSU and BC are still not accepted as "true" ACC schools... and that she's delighted that MD is leaving for the Big 10. She realizes this is all being done in the name of TV dollars, but says that doesn't mean she has to like it.

She says her viewpoint is shared by virtually everyone she knows in the Carolinas. And she says fans of Syracuse (and the other new schools) are delusional if they think the Carolina schools will ever consider them their real rivals.

This woman is very active in a national sports governing body where she has held significant positions, so she is not just some random UNC fan. I was stunned by the vehemence of her position -- which, as I said above, she says is widely shared. I know her fairly well, and I have never heard be so strident about anything.

The fact that she is using such strong language already lends itself to the beginnings of a rivalry already. We don't need to worry about other fans hating us, we need to worry about other fans not caring about us one way or another.

Good for her for having an opinion at least. I hope she goes to the games and watches as we thump then.

 

[longtimefan]

Spent time yesterday with a very intelligent and accomplished woman who is a serious sports fan. She's a grad of UNC; her husband is a grad of UVA and their son is a student student athlete at Clemson in s non-revenue sport.

She is very unhappy about "the invasion" of the traditional ACC by "all these foreign teams." She said Miami, FSU and BC are still not accepted as "true" ACC schools... and that she's delighted that MD is leaving for the Big 10. She realizes this is all being done in the name of TV dollars, but says that doesn't mean she has to like it.

She says her viewpoint is shared by virtually everyone she knows in the Carolinas. And she says fans of Syracuse (and the other new schools) are delusional if they think the Carolina schools will ever consider them their real rivals.

This woman is very active in a national sports governing body where she has held significant positions, so she is not just some random UNC fan. I was stunned by the vehemence of her position -- which, as I said above, she says is widely shared. I know her fairly well, and I have never heard be so strident about anything.

Your friend is intelligent and a serious UNC fan. And she doesn't care for Northern invaders.

Ask her if she wants to return the Heels' 1957 championship, as 8 of the 13 on the roster were from New York (not to mention another pair from New Jersey). Or, perhaps replay the '82 championship without Sam Perkins, Matt Doherty, and Jimmy Black, New Yorkers all.

 

[realorange]

Your friend is intelligent and a serious UNC fan. And she doesn't care for Northern invaders.

Ask her if she wants to return the Heels' 1957 championship, as 8 of the 13 on the roster were from New York (not to mention another pair from New Jersey). Or, perhaps replay the '82 championship without Sam Perkins, Matt Doherty, and Jimmy Black, New Yorkers all.

And the coach of the '57 team was Frank McGuire from ------ NYC!

 

[Quazzum69]

It may be more than athletics. Think of the academic side of the ACC. Even though they are probably the best academic major athletic conference (BIG10 might be better), SU, Pitt and obviously Louisville could be seen as a dilution of the Southern gentry (Notre Dame is a great addition to academics, but not southern). Syracuse is a rust belt city in central New York, a couple hours south of Canada with mediocre academics (for ACC standards). I can see why some of the old guard would be hostile to its addition to a once very exclusive league.

Kind of ridiculous when in the context of athletic events when it's become sink or swim for universities and entire conferences.

2013 US News and World Report Ranking of National Universities:
(* = 2004/2005 additions, **= 2013/2014 additions)

Duke #8
Notre Dame #17**
UVA #24
Wake Forest #27
UNC #30
BC #31*
Georgia Tech #36
Miami #44*
(Maryland #58)
Syracuse #58**
Pittsburgh #58**
Clemson #68
Virginia Tech #72*
Florida State #97
NC St #106
Louisville #160**

 

[raf4488]

I wonder if she thinks Ga Tech is a "real" ACC school.

As the older generation dies off and a newer generation of fans/alums grow accustomed to watching the "new" ACC, this sentiment will change, albeit gradually. I've spoken to numerous young Wake, UNC, and Duke alums here in NC that are very excited to have Syracuse in the league, and are sold on the idea that SU will help make the ACC the greatest hoops conference once again.

 

[shandeezy7]

Too far north.. just as she thinks Florida is too far south. She thinks the "true" ACC schools are in the Caroinas and Virginia. I emphasize again, this woman is not some random yahoo. She is a very intelligent and accomplished woman.

I certainly know a lot of educated yahoos who hold important positions.

 

[raf4488]

Quazzum, I actually think that data proves academics isn't an issue here. SU is in the middle of a good group of schools. Even if you take the "original" ACC, SU is behind Duke, Wake, UVA, and UNC, even with UMD, and ahead of Clemson, USC-east, and NCSU. Not exactly an outlier.

 

[Trueblue25]

I don't care if they consider us rivals.

They may dislike us, they may never accept us...

But they will learn to respect us. UNC also needs to realize that we won't wanna consider them a rival either if they can't come within 10 points of us at the dome, which I don't think they will this year. Same for NC State home or away.

Duke, who cares. F Duke.

 

[cuseincincy]

Quazzum, I actually think that data proves academics isn't an issue here. SU is in the middle of a good group of schools. Even if you take the "original" ACC, SU is behind Duke, Wake, UVA, and UNC, even with UMD, and ahead of Clemson, USC-east, and NCSU. Not exactly an outlier.

USC-east is in the SEC.

 

[Trueblue25]

I don't think UNC and Duke have experienced something like SU yet. We may not have the history they have or the championships.

However, I think a few brutal beatings in the dome and msg will stir up some bitterness. These souther folk are very proud. Let them think they are better than us though it won't show on the court.

 

[edowd26]

USC-east is in the SEC.

Believe he was referring to clemson?

 

[Cuse'91]

Screw'em all... They raided us first, be careful what you wish for...
Grab your carpet bags and lets go!

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Believe he was referring to clemson?

University of South Carolina - what they call the original USC.

 

[reedny]

Spent time yesterday with a very intelligent and accomplished woman who is a serious sports fan. She's a grad of UNC; her husband is a grad of UVA and their son is a student student athlete at Clemson in s non-revenue sport.

She is very unhappy about "the invasion" of the traditional ACC by "all these foreign teams." She said Miami, FSU and BC are still not accepted as "true" ACC schools... and that she's delighted that MD is leaving for the Big 10. She realizes this is all being done in the name of TV dollars, but says that doesn't mean she has to like it.

She says her viewpoint is shared by virtually everyone she knows in the Carolinas. And she says fans of Syracuse (and the other new schools) are delusional if they think the Carolina schools will ever consider them their real rivals.

This woman is very active in a national sports governing body where she has held significant positions, so she is not just some random UNC fan. I was stunned by the vehemence of her position -- which, as I said above, she says is widely shared. I know her fairly well, and I have never heard be so strident about anything.

We're "delusional"? Ouch ... so much for the stereotype about southern grace (maybe they didn't teach manners back in 1936 when she graduated from UNC). At any rate, I see a humorous irony here: your friend's arrogance is exactly the kind of attitude that can get a rivalry started. Wait 'til CJ Fair dunks on her team -- then what's left of southern hospitality will evaporate!

Too much time with the ladies at the country club makes Belle a dull and opinionated gal.

 

[newmexicuse]

Totally agree. I mean who here really feels that Depaul or USF was embraced as a "Big East" team?
The conference blue bloods will always look down on us as outsiders and will treat us like we are Sherman comming back to Atlanta for a reunion.
Lets make them really hate us and win the conference championship AND a national championship in our first year!!

Bad examples as those schools were not competitive. It seems to me that latecomer LVille ended up being a very major BE rival because they were able to compete successfully.

Same will become true in the new ACC. If in hoops, eg, the long term powers turn out to be NC, Duke, Ville, & us then over time they will become our most important rivals & vice versa.

 

[realorange]

I certainly know a lot of educated yahoos who hold important positions.

It's called being educated beyond your intelligence.

 

[cuseincincy]

It's called being educated beyond your intelligence.

Are you sure its not more a case of being intelligent beyond your education?

 

[AlaskaSU]

Fortunately, it does not matter if they do not respect us. the new blood is the new majority.

 

[Toga]

Whither Davidson?

 

[baggerbob]

They probably will be even more upset, because of all the transplanted people from New York who will show up at their games. North Carolina St seemed to be.

 

[bballbeadle]

Such an interesting post, CTO! It's a very complicated matter, involving geography, politics, history, and psychology. Probably some other things as well. Regarding psychology, we have had a whole year to get used to "the end of." We were sad and mad and in denial. But now many of us, including moi, are ready to get on with it! But for members of the ACC, this has been theoretical. All last year, while we were doing the last game with so and so, they were experiencing business as usual. In regards to the world NOW turning upside down for the ACC, I have compassion for them, just as I had it for us. I hate to use the term "victims," so let's just say that all of us are in the same boat that none of us ever wanted to board.

Regarding rivalries, nothing will ever ever outstrip Duke/Carolina. We will always be the ugly step-sister in that regard (just the way I suspect many other ACC teams feel). But whether they can admit it now or not, we will be pumping in a whole lot of luster to a conference that was dimming and becoming boring.

Change is hard. I don't want to die, but whatchagonna do? Here's what you do: live each day to the fullest (and by that I don't mean chugging a six pack of PBR ), love thy neighbor, and hie thyself to the Dome as often as possible!